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Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)
- Thread starter gai113
- Start date
The musical education system in high schools is lackadaisical, and a joke.
The mainstream music today supports these repetitive, boring scales because of the advancement of technology; everyone can mass produce some kind of crap and get away with it.
Music is no longer treated as an art that one has to work for to make it sound good.
Some people are so undereducated in music that they mock other people's tastes.
The mainstream music today supports these repetitive, boring scales because of the advancement of technology; everyone can mass produce some kind of crap and get away with it.
Music is no longer treated as an art that one has to work for to make it sound good.
Some people are so undereducated in music that they mock other people's tastes.
David, are you being sarcastic or was it a serious question? Regardless, since I'm not sure and you got me thinking, I'll give an answer a go.
I think the primary reason that jazz has a small audience is because its comparatively inaccessible music. The music descended from bebop and the jazz of the 1960s - lets call it Modern Jazz - requires a trained ear to appreciate and not many people are interested in investing the time and effort to get that training.
If your goal is popularity as a jazzer, then I think the Smooth Jazzers are on the right track, because it seems Smooth Jazz is more popular than Modern Jazz. At least my local jazz radio station seems to think so. Instrumental pop is another step further and seems that much more popular. Someone commented that songs with lyrics are more accessible than instrumental music and I think thats true too. Michael Buble has developed quite a following as a vocal jazz singer but is still not as popular as the top rock acts. So more people find the top rock acts more entertaining than Buble? I dont have the statistics, but that sounds reasonable to me. I wonder why, and Im not sure, but Ill guess that more people find rock rhythms more entertaining than jazz rhythms.
My understanding is that bebop originated in the after-hours clubs by the musicians who were playing in the dance bands in the 1940s. If thats accurate, then bebop was never intended to entertain the general public, its intention was to entertain professional musicians. That makes sense to me, given bebops sophisticated melodies and chords at very fast tempos.
So, what Im referring to as Modern Jazz, is not very popular because it is music for musicians and as such, is designed to appeal to a subset of the population.
If we want to increase the appreciation for jazz, I think the only way is to educate more people on what it is and why they might like it.
Amazing that this thread is still breathing. It should have died long ago. Comments like the one above are senseless and mindless. They bear no fruit. I think H.L. Menkin probably said it best;
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
H. L. Mencken
- Jun 28, 2012
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Why isn't jazz that popular? The word jazz is so confusing, most don't know what it is. I'm going to assume you're talking about bebop. Bebop really never has been that popular from its inception. It's an intellectual art form imho. That's why its not pop (popular).
But I've been waiting to be discovered. I wanna play my **** on America's Got Talent. Maybe if I add some beat box **** goin' on under da other **** I'll finally break through. People will finally start hearin' my ****.
It, like classical music, went to college and forgot about the listener and only cared about itself.
Kind of resurrecting this thread because I have always been a jazz fan but made my money touring and playing mainstream rock and hip hop.
First off, for the people who care abut what "chics dig", I feel sorry for you if that is your motivation to play. Learn to pick up women without needing a guitar to do it.
I love jazz and I do think things change and people will get into certain forms of it. A good outdoor jazz fest still draws tons of people. Obviously it is not easy to get for the 15-25 year old demo, but it's a different kind of music. You don't play for people who want to hear mainstream stuff..you play for people who want to hear something more challenging.
Another reason I love jazz is because about any hack can form a rock band. It's easy, and it basically is why nobody goes to shows anymore compared to back in the day. 95% of bands are mediocre or worse. It's pretty hard to suck at music and play in a jazz band without making a fool of yourself.
Yes, there is an elitist vibe to some players. But many jazz guys are some of the nicest guys you will meet. When you make music, you should play what comes from within, not what you think people like. Trust me, I played mainstream music for a long time because it paid well and allowed me to have some incredible life experiences, but I was not inspired by the music or really any of the other radio rock bands we toured with.
First off, for the people who care abut what "chics dig", I feel sorry for you if that is your motivation to play. Learn to pick up women without needing a guitar to do it.
I love jazz and I do think things change and people will get into certain forms of it. A good outdoor jazz fest still draws tons of people. Obviously it is not easy to get for the 15-25 year old demo, but it's a different kind of music. You don't play for people who want to hear mainstream stuff..you play for people who want to hear something more challenging.
Another reason I love jazz is because about any hack can form a rock band. It's easy, and it basically is why nobody goes to shows anymore compared to back in the day. 95% of bands are mediocre or worse. It's pretty hard to suck at music and play in a jazz band without making a fool of yourself.
Yes, there is an elitist vibe to some players. But many jazz guys are some of the nicest guys you will meet. When you make music, you should play what comes from within, not what you think people like. Trust me, I played mainstream music for a long time because it paid well and allowed me to have some incredible life experiences, but I was not inspired by the music or really any of the other radio rock bands we toured with.
- Jan 12, 2011
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I grew up in a household where there was Jazz all the time. My father played Tenor Sax and often had live jam sessions at my house. Having such a background I still prefer to play Funk, then R&B if I have to. I just naturally gravitiated to Funk and it has nothing to due wih my lack of musical sophistication, experience or anything like it. I have friends who went to Berklee and play Jazz professionally and I go to see them play live. Just not my cup of tea to play or even study. Believe it or not just like Jazz cats say players from other genres can't play jazz, Real Funk players say that about Jazz Cats when they try to play Funk. I just say to each his own. All Jazz ain't good, all pop music ain't good, and so on and so on. Just because of it's nature and musical elements Jazz will never be a mainstream art.
Real true.
I really am more of a fusion guy. I need feel and groove in my music.
I think one day someone will make "fusion" that is not necessarily what it is now (smooth jazz mainly), and it could cross over.
If not, oh well. I still like it.
It is not just jazz that has suffered in the last 50 years, it is all kinds of instrumental music. In the 1st half of the 20th century, instrumental music was huge and orchestra conductors, pianists, violinists, big band leaders, saxophonists were music stars along with opera singers and the new style crooners. Then as the decades go, instrumental music got pushed out by the vocal music+backing band. When was the last time an instrumental song was on the Billboard top 100? The 1980s?
Now, it has to have a voice, (even a mediocre one) to be in the running for popularity. Instrumental music of all genres, jazz, classical, rock, electronic, latin, folk, blues, anything, is a niche market.
It is the Tyranny of the Vocalist.
Now, it has to have a voice, (even a mediocre one) to be in the running for popularity. Instrumental music of all genres, jazz, classical, rock, electronic, latin, folk, blues, anything, is a niche market.
It is the Tyranny of the Vocalist.
The older I get, the better my ears get. In my teens, I listened to jazz because I was a young bass player and I was supposed to listen to jazz. I listened to it, but didn't really hear it or like it.
As time passed, I started hearing it. And the more I heard it, the more I liked it.
Maybe listening to jazz is more similar to skiing or golf than it is similar to popular music. It takes an investment of time and patience to get to the point where you enjoy it. But when you get there, what a wonderful life asset.
My theory about the early days of jazz is that it was popular because it was new and trendy, not because the people listening to it at that time "got it" any more than people do now.
As time passed, I started hearing it. And the more I heard it, the more I liked it.
Maybe listening to jazz is more similar to skiing or golf than it is similar to popular music. It takes an investment of time and patience to get to the point where you enjoy it. But when you get there, what a wonderful life asset.
My theory about the early days of jazz is that it was popular because it was new and trendy, not because the people listening to it at that time "got it" any more than people do now.
Want to be around a society that appreciates jazz, move to Japan. You're not going to get it in America. In Japan, Eddie Gomez is a star. They love him there. Americans have never heard of him. Most have never even heard of Bill Evans.
Here it's trash music for a trash culture.
Here it's trash music for a trash culture.
I find Dimmik's comments very interesting. Is it still true that mainstream jazz is better appreciated in Japan and North Europe than in the States? I really hope so because I'd like to think that mainstream jazz has an audience somewhere. Having said that, I think calling contemporary American pop *trash music* is a bit harsh, no? How about overly produced, relatively unsophisticated music for a relatively musically uneducated audience? And that's not really a slam against the American public as much as the corporate, capitalistic music industry. And, it's hard to fault the music producers for making a profit since that's their job and duty to their investors. It does make for a sad statement about capitalism and art, perhaps, but it's really not clear to me who is at fault.
I like what you are saying Angel. I'd add that it's pretty hard to record any style of music that's coming 100% from within, when the pressure of marketing is involved. Lots of great young players these days, but the records are pretty wimpy for this reason. Live Jazz is best, always has been, always will be.
