Why no Hype for the young Brothers?

[Dr. Cheese]

So whats stopping you from pulling five that prove your point?

Lets take the current issue:
Phil Lesh on the cover
Meshell and large feature
Alex Bershadsky, George Porter Jr, Missy Raines, Jesse Ingalls and Caleb Followill small features.
Raphael Saadiq music

5 white musicians featured, 2 black, music from a black artist.

The precentages hold again.

The point that was orginally raised was not that there were not Black bassists featured, but that there was little attention paid to young up and coming Black bassists. Major Black bassists get plenty of attention and covers.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

So whats stopping you from pulling five that prove your point?

You keep talking about 5 issues.

Do you have any idea of what over 20 years of mags and it's %'s in any direction can bring to the table?

 

[Brad Johnson]

No, but I've gone through every issue I have and come up with the same thing every time. If you have something contrary I'm all ears.

You only have five. Do you not see the problem with that?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Generally when you're accusing someone of something the burden of proof falls on you. I'm just saying that of the issues of BP I have, those are how the articles are distributed. Its not necessarily exemplary of the entire history of the magazine, but I'm the only one who has even attempted to put some numbers to this. If you have facts to the contrary, please present them.

I can't find mine... I don't even have five laying around. That doesn't change the fact that your "facts" are light as heck. How many would I need to prove a trend like you did... five? Four? Is three enough?


To the highlighted point, no one seems to disagree with it... you still present it as if it has some merit even though you go on to prove it doesn't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The point that was orginally raised was not that there were not Black bassists featured, but that there was little attention paid to young up and coming Black bassists. Major Black bassists get plenty of attention and covers.

The point usually gets lost in the shuffle with topics like this. Over and over again.

 

[beggar98]

Lets try something else. Here are all the cover artists from 2008:

January- John Taylor
February- John Paul Jones
March- Cachao
April- Randy Jackson
May- Esperanza Spalding
June- can't find it anywhere
July- Tube Amps
August- Stanley/Marcus/Victor
September- Chris Wood
October- Justin Meldal-Johnson
November- Robert Trujillo
December- Anthony Jackson

I count 6 white, 4 black, one Cuban, one gear and one I can't find. Again, my estimates hold.

 

[beggar98]

The point that was orginally raised was not that there were not Black bassists featured, but that there was little attention paid to young up and coming Black bassists. Major Black bassists get plenty of attention and covers.

OK, if that's the case then I would say its ALL up and coming bassists that don't get covers, not just black. Looking at the list of the 2008 covers, only Esperanza can be considered "up and coming". Everyone is established, some to the point of being has beens (John Taylor?)

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Everyone is established, some to the point of being has beens (John Taylor?)

 

[beggar98]

You keep talking about 5 issues.

Do you have any idea of what over 20 years of mags and it's %'s in any direction can bring to the table?

The point is that if we actually stopped and looked at how the numbers break down, we might be able to see something. Didn't anyone else find it odd that the distribution over the issues I had was almost identical? If that trend held over a larger sample it would lead me to believe that the amount of black vs. white artists featured is not accidental.

Just because I asked for solid evidence of the alleged slight doesn't mean I don't think its there.

 

[beggar98]

Great, now I've offended your love for Duran Duran.

 

[Andrew Jones]

Great, now I've offended your love for Duran Duran.

LOL

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Great, now I've offended your love for Duran Duran.

That's funny.

John Taylor really is a talented bass player(my opinion of course).

 

[Vetchking]

Vetchking Here:

How can magazines like Bass Player find the new Brothers, when it took them over 35 some years to find out Peter Cetera of Chicago was a killer player Musician.

LOL.

I knew half way through Chicago 2 and I was still in my teens............ LOL.

Later........

 

[Brad Johnson]

Lets try something else. Here are all the cover artists from 2008:

January- John Taylor
February- John Paul Jones
March- Cachao
April- Randy Jackson
May- Esperanza Spalding
June- can't find it anywhere
July- Tube Amps
August- Stanley/Marcus/Victor
September- Chris Wood
October- Justin Meldal-Johnson
November- Robert Trujillo
December- Anthony Jackson

I count 6 white, 4 black, one Cuban, one gear and one I can't find. Again, my estimates hold.

The only thing it proves is that you'll consider just about anything proof on your end. No offense of course.

How does this speak to the content of the entire magazine?

It doesn't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

OK, if that's the case then I would say its ALL up and coming bassists that don't get covers, not just black. Looking at the list of the 2008 covers, only Esperanza can be considered "up and coming". Everyone is established, some to the point of being has beens (John Taylor?)

So she wouldn't be part of ALL?

Hey, I'm just reading what you write.

 

[Billy Low]

I feel you. I played hockey in the early 70's myself.

And I was a speed skater...REALLY, I WAS!!!

The point that I find less than amusing is when the whole "like it or leave it" arguement arises whenever a person makes mention of the failure of an established entity to show greater diversity. Why is it wrong to question publications that have have a dedicted fan base to be more representative of those that support it?

No, I have never suggested that BP or any other publication has now or has ever chosen to cover players based purely on race. What I have questioned is how long does one have to wait for the ommision by ignorance ceases. I have never grabbed an issue of any magazine and said "Lemme count the dark faces". After a while of handling this and other pubs, it is easy for me to see that there are few faces that look like mine that are not of "Legendary" status.

It's like going to your favorite resturaunt and orgering a salad. As you get half way through the salad you realize that the salad is delicious, but somethings missing. You can't put your finger on it, but it's not quite hitting the spot. You get to the end of the salad and it dons on you that it didn't have enough cucumber slices. No problem, maybe next time. Only problem is next time never happens. There is never enough cucumber. You bring it to the attention of the managment. Remember the salad isn't bad, it's just missing a little something. You wouldn't expect them to come up with a formulated count of cucumber slices, you just want a few more FRESH slices!

For those of you that believe that the desire that others have to be better represented is foolish, race baiting, or sour grapes, flip the script. Just say that issues hit the stands and 70% of the coverage is of Black players. Rock-Doug Pinnick, Punk-Darryl Jenifer, Classic Rock-Phil Lynot, Smooth Jazz-Al Caldwell, and it continues...Anthony Harmon (RIP), Ethan Farmer, Bill Dickens,Jauqo III-X, Alex Al, Matt Garrison, so on & so on. It may not effect you at first, but I gar-run-tee by the third issue BP would have an issue! How about Bobby Vega being on the cover with 70% of the publication geared toward players of Latin descent. Oh no, don't even begin to think about John Myung being on the cover of an issue filled with 70% of the players being of Asian descent (without the obligatory Special Issue title). Could you imagine the backlash?!?! Believe me that would only be done once if ever!!!!!

Now imagine it for 20 years...

Tell yourself that it wouldn't bother you.

 

[Billy Low]

OK, if that's the case then I would say its ALL up and coming bassists that don't get covers, not just black. Looking at the list of the 2008 covers, only Esperanza can be considered "up and coming". Everyone is established, some to the point of being has beens (John Taylor?)

My OP wasn't refering to cover features; I'm neither that optimistic nor foolish. I was speaking of general props.

 

[BiigM]

Play bass

 

[aborgman]

LOL. I see your point on that one, but totally disagree. Repeat customers is where it's at. Do you want a steady subscription base or rely on the odd chance of capturing somebody's attention at the mag stand? Ideally you want both, but the former would generate more revenue than the latter on a annual basis. (Purely speculative on my part. I have no data to back that up. It may turn out to be the exact opposite according to BP's accounting books.)

BP is a rather ad heavy magazine from what I've seen - so chances are they make very little money from either subscribers or newsstand sales, and make most of their money from advertising dollars. Really want matters in that scenario is total sales numbers.

In general though a magazine would rather sell 1 million copies at the newsstand and zero subscription than 1 million subscriptions and zero copies at the newsstand.

 

[chicago_mike]

This planet wouldn't have half the clue who Bill Dickens is if it wasn't for the Victor Wooten interview in BP. Plus there seems to be some "controversies" (sp??) that surround him and perhaps thats some reason(s) why he doesn't get much coverage cept for some ads. And Jauqo, I always thought you were not interested in being on a cover of a magazine, unless it dealt with mid......never mind!

But some names mentioned I could see NOT being covered, not because the color of their skin, but simply because the outlet they have, ie , the gig they currently have, it might not be as sellable. Kinda sucks, but I think there might be truth there.