Why no Hype for the young Brothers?

[aborgman]

True indeed. But does that imply that BP won't make a profit if they started including more feature articles of minority players?

It implies that either BP is losing profit it could be making by featuring more diversity, or BP would make less profit by being more diverse.

I don't believe they are doing it on purpose. A lot of racist things are said\done\implied by accident.

I don't think they're doing it on purpose OR accidentally - I think they are just catering to their customer base.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I'd like to believe that - but I also think if it were beneficial TO THEIR BOTTOM LINE they'd be doing it.

Do you believe they are intentionally foregoing profits?

If so, do you think it's because of racism, or just ignorance of a potential revenue source?

As a Ph.D. in history, I can tell you that beyond a shadow of a doubt, predjudice of one form or another has often caused people to miss out on lots of money. As a young boy in the South, I couldn't go into most resturaunts or hotels because of racism, all of those business lost millions of dollars because of their racist principles. It's not accident that the South has grown exponentially since segreation ended.

The example I gave is extreme and is pretty rare today, but often people make unconscious assumptions about potential clients or markets that are based on stereotypical thinking, and it does cost them money.

The idea that businesses are totally rational and unaffected by nonsensical assumptions is simply not borne out by facts.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Just one example of assumptions can be seen in the thread about the kid who is the son of a great bassist who has released some clips on Youtube. The original poster assumed the kid knew no theory without a shred of evidence to that effect. I don't know how many times a clip of some young bassist is shown, and someone who knows him mentions that he has a music degree, How many people make that assumption about a young black man they see playing in a church or club? Some do, but the truth is many do not. That sort of thinking does affect how a business my run its affairs whether it is conscious of it or not.

 

[aborgman]

As a Ph.D. in history, I can tell you that beyond a shadow of a doubt, predjudice of one form or another has often caused people to miss out on lots of money. As a young boy in the South, I couldn't go into most resturaunts or hotels because of racism, all of those business lost millions of dollars because of their racist principles. It's not accident that the South has grown exponentially since segreation ended.

In some ways that is a double edged example.

One also has to consider the money that would have been lost to racist whites who would then boycott/burn down/kill the owners of those facilities for allowing blacks.

While I agree that the decision was immoral, I couldn't say without much more research whether it was the correct decision as far as maximizing profit.

The idea that businesses are totally rational and unaffected by nonsensical assumptions is simply not borne out by facts.

Businesses are often irrational - but generally those that are publicly held will bow to the almighty dollar.

 

[IbanezATK]

Understand that I truley am not trying to start a race riot here on TB. If I offend believe me that is not my intention. But I have seen about enough BS out of BP! I'm not just talkin about local cats that haven't broken in the industry, I'm talkin about cats that have played on gold/platinum hits and on major/minor tours. BP has only four areas of concentration: Rock, Old Rock, Fusion/Jazz, Old Funk. Even on the old funk tip they barely scrape the surface. Even the Asian and Latino Brothers should be shown love! "It aint hatnin" as the older folks round my way would say.

Start your own magazine and feature the artists you want to feature?

I haven't read Bass Player in years.

 

[beggar98]

I think its interesting that a magazine that features 30-40% black musicians is being accused of being racially biased when blacks make up about 12-15% of the population of the U.S. Is it possible that perception is worse than reality? Jauqo estimated the ratio of white to black features in BP at 15-1. Someone else was complaining that they hadn't featured Esparanza Spaulding when in fact she had a cover in the last 12 months. I think we need to go back and look at the presumption that BP does not feature young black players and maybe back that up with some data.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I had this huge post all written to respond to this blah-blah-blah, but I decided to shut off my computer & practice so I can become a better musician...


peace.

 

[Crunktacular]

It implies that either BP is losing profit it could be making by featuring more diversity, or BP would make less profit by being more diverse.

True. I agree with you on that.

I don't think they're doing it on purpose OR accidentally - I think they are just catering to their customer base.

Maybe. It is called Bass Player, not Metal Bass Player or Rock Bass Player or Funk Bass Player or Gospel Bass Player. Bass Player. Their customer base should be bass players. Right? I know the key word to that is 'should', but you get the point.

 

[Crunktacular]

I think we need to go back and look at the presumption that BP does not feature young black players and maybe back that up with some data.

I agree.

 

[Crunktacular]

I had this huge post all written to respond to this blah-blah-blah, but I decided to shut off my computer & practice so I can become a better musician...


peace.

LOL. Race is always a touchy subject in America. But this type of discussion can make you and me both a better person. I wish you would have chimed in. When the thread topic is P vs J, then you turn the computer off and practice.

 

[aborgman]

Maybe. It is called Bass Player, not Metal Bass Player or Rock Bass Player or Funk Bass Player or Gospel Bass Player. Bass Player. Their customer base should be bass players. Right? I know the key word to that is 'should', but you get the point.

Their customer base should be whoever is willing to open their wallet. They should care less whether that customer even knows what a bass is as long as he pays for his magazine.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Jauqo estimated the ratio of white to black features in BP at 15-1

And I'm standing by what I said.

The #'s do not add up.

Bass player mag does not cover a proper amount of black bass players giving that there are a large % of pro and amateur bass players out there and that's not even talking about the % that just want to read about those that play the instrument and the gear they use.

So, my math breaks down like this:

Covers- 60% white, 20% black, 20% Cuban legend.
Features- 70% white, 30% black.
1-page- 64% white, 29% black, 7% Argentinean
Music- 66% white, 34% black.

And these are your estimated #'s.

 

[beggar98]

And I'm standing by what I said.

The #'s do not add up.

Bass player mag does not cover a proper amount of black bass players giving that there are a large % of pro and amateur bass players out there and that's not even talking about the % that just want to read about those that play the instrument and the gear they use.




And these are your estimated #'s.

They aren't estimated numbers. Those are the numbers from the issues I had lying around. Not estimates. Facts. Can you back up 15-1 with any facts? Of course not, because its exaggerated.

 

[Crunktacular]

Their customer base should be whoever is willing to open their wallet. They should care less whether that customer even knows what a bass is as long as he pays for his magazine.

LOL. I see your point on that one, but totally disagree. Repeat customers is where it's at. Do you want a steady subscription base or rely on the odd chance of capturing somebody's attention at the mag stand? Ideally you want both, but the former would generate more revenue than the latter on a annual basis. (Purely speculative on my part. I have no data to back that up. It may turn out to be the exact opposite according to BP's accounting books.)

 

[Spencer!]

Maybe those gospel cats don't get talked up much here or in the magazines, but set foot in a place like Berklee and guys like Rafiki are really well-known and respected.

 

[Crunktacular]

They aren't estimated numbers. Those are the numbers from the issues I had lying around. Not estimates. Facts. Can you back up 15-1 with any facts? Of course not, because its exaggerated.

Well, technically your facts aren't facts either until you state how many issues you "had lying around", and which issues they were (so your numbers can be verified by others). Just trying to help.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

In some ways that is a double edged example.

One also has to consider the money that would have been lost to racist whites who would then boycott/burn down/kill the owners of those facilities for allowing blacks.

While I agree that the decision was immoral, I couldn't say without much more research whether it was the correct decision as far as maximizing profit.



Businesses are often irrational - but generally those that are publicly held will bow to the almighty dollar.

The bit about businesses losing money because of the retaliation of angry whites simply did not happen, so that argument is falacious. Once the government decided to do the right thing, the white South went along with minimal complaint.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

They aren't estimated numbers. Those are the numbers from the issues I had lying around. Not estimates. Facts. Can you back up 15-1 with any facts? Of course not, because its exaggerated.

Exactly the issues you have laying around.

I have over 20 years worth of issues.

 

[Dr_Funkdamental]

LOL. Race is always a touchy subject in America. But this type of discussion can make you and me both a better person. I wish you would have chimed in. When the thread topic is P vs J, then you turn the computer off and practice.

+10000. Regardless of outcome, this is whats healthy-getting it out there. I promise you there are ppl that are now really thinking about it that werent, and you have those that as usual, see the word race and blow it off as a complaint and keep moving. Im am truly enjoying this thread actually. I would like to state that when a black person brings up a racial subject, they are not always calling someone 'racist' which alot of times is the assumed notion. Its not about pointing fingers, it about raising awareness.

As far as BP, I agree. I can recall seeing Gouche on BPTV and advertisements, but never on the cover (correct me if Im wrong), and not only is he a gospel pioneer, but hes played for some of everyone (Crusaders, Chaka Khan, Jeff Lorber). Look at the thread about Sharay Reed. Not making it a gospel thing, but almost all of the well known players actually play for famous secular artists and have extensive discographies. I myself would love to see some more coverage on bass players from other countries (Asian, German, etc) as well.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

My posts in this thread are based off of observation and not racism. I am a professional bass player and I see my share of white and black bass players. And I am more than aware of the rich history that our instrument possesses.


There's a tremendous amount of black and white bass players who have contributed to this rich history but I just don't see it eqauling out in the bass mags.

I could see if it was a mag called Hockey Player