Why no Hype for the young Brothers?

[aborgman]

The bit about businesses losing money because of the retaliation of angry whites simply did not happen, so that argument is falacious.

Actually - it did happen, although it was relatively isolated because it was so uncommon prior to the late 1960s.

Once the government decided to do the right thing, the white South went along with minimal complaint.

I'd say "minimal complaint" is a pretty huge understatement.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Vetchking Here:

How can magazines like Bass Player find the new Brothers, when it took them over 35 some years to find out Peter Cetera of Chicago was a killer player Musician.

LOL.

I knew half way through Chicago 2 and I was still in my teens............ LOL.

Later........

That deserves a LOL!

 

[JAUQO III-X]

This planet wouldn't have half the clue who Bill Dickens is if it wasn't for the Victor Wooten interview in BP. Plus there seems to be some "controversies" (sp??) that surround him and perhaps thats some reason(s) why he doesn't get much coverage cept for some ads. And Jauqo, I always thought you were not interested in being on a cover of a magazine, unless it dealt with mid......never mind!

I'm not and it never crossed my mind. Billy Low was making a point(a very valid one) and he included me and Bill Dickens).

Mike you work with Bill on a very close and regular basis,live and studio and you know what he's doing and what he has done.


You don't think that an interview would be worthy to the bass community? To at least allow him to pub his latest project or discuss his concept and ideas behind the ERB. He is one of the very earliest user of such an instrument.


Some ERB players have no clue that Bill Dickens was a pioneer in this area of our instrument. And he was one of the main reasons Conklin became such a huge name in the bass community.



A black artist who has helped sell gear because of his ad presence in BP mag.


What about his production credits,writing credits,etc?

 

[aborgman]

It's not like I thought you would.

Nice bias. Shocking.

We're not talking about ad content but thanks for trying to shift it to that. We're talking about artist coverage. I thought that was pretty obvious.

I'm not talking about ads, although in most of these types of magazines (BP, GP, Mix, etc.) that IS what the gear reviews basically are.

So Anthony Jackson's columns were to appease who?

Probably no one, although possibly the readership. Not everything is there to appease, mostly just anything that mentions anyone who pays to advertise in the magazine.

You have numbers to back that up? And while you're at it, how about numbers of people who don't bother with it because of the typical artist coverage?

I don't have numbers - but it is the typical scenario. The popular artists are popular after all because more people are interested in them.

You know, what I find funny as hell is that you seem to know alot about a magazine that you say you've only read... well, let's use your exact words:

BP is no different from what I've seen in the few issues I've perused than any other magazine of the sort - GP , BP, Mix, etc. are all very similar.

So? Think those advertisers would do so without subscriptions?

If you regularly sell enough newsstand copies, absolutely. All advertisers care about is sales - they don't care whether it's a million new customers each month, or the same million each month (well, actually they'd generally prefer the former over the latter).

More numbers pulled from somewhere. 10x as many people as you is 10.

Duh. Those numbers weren't intended to be real, they were intended to explain why in a lot of cases it makes more financial sense to cater to popularity.

Do you think BP is intentionally foregoing profit by avoiding lesser known black players?

Do you think they are doing so because of racism?

IMO - IF they are foregoing profits, it's unintentional and done in a belief that what they are doing is the best way to maximize profits. I may be wrong, but the idea that they are doing it out of some racist leanings is rather ludicrous.

 

[chicago_mike]

I wonder what the solution to the issue could be. Is it simply show more light on black and hispanic and other nationalities in BP? What I concern myself with is this: Theres more avenues out now to get exposure, its not easy most the time and it ultimately comes down to who you know, wich it pretty much has been since the dawn of time.

I wonder if waiting for more articles might be the wrong way, I'm not trying to get more exposure right now, even though I'll gripe about it here and there, but its my fault for not going out and getting it. What did Vic say about his parents promoting his brothers? They didn"t know how to do it, but they also didn"T know how NOT to do it.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but with the access to outlets we now have and being able to make names for ourselves, isn't it up to the individual now more than ever? White, black, purple, green, what have you...I dont want to ignore the issue, but I wonder if we might be putting our eggs in one basket here.

THeres nothing really wrong with shameless self promotion anymore. My god, look at half the internet is, then look at the other half.

 

[aborgman]

What I have questioned is how long does one have to wait for the ommision by ignorance ceases.

Sadly, forever. Humanity will never escape it. We've evolved an amazing pattern matching skill along with a fierce tribalism that leads to artificial divisions of us and them, whether it be on race, nationality, country of origin, religion, etc.

We're really all the same - but I don't think humanity will ever overcome tribalism. All we've managed to do so far at best is move it from a tribe based on color/religion to one based on nationalism.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Actually - it did happen, although it was relatively isolated because it was so uncommon prior to the late 1960s.



I'd say "minimal complaint" is a pretty huge understatement.

We are talking apples and oranges. Prior to the late 1960s is prior to the government enforcing Civil Rights. Once the government decided to enforce the large, there was some foot dragging and some violence, but the White South had no choice but to accept the change.

Back to the topic, I would hope you are not using the need to appease those kinds of mentalities as a reason for a magazine to minimize diversity. Given who the president is, I somehow think America will not freak out over a few new Black faces in a magazine.

 

[davec]

Do you have at least 5 issues of BP mag? If so count how many black bass players are featured in each issue compared to non black bass players./QUOTE]

I subscribed for years and did this ...... there is a definite slant, I think that a lot of it is the Hard/Rock Heavy Metal player that must be in every issue.

Lets think of legends/ heroes and race....

Jamerson, Rainey, Clarke, Miller, Wooten, Graham, Jaco, McCartney, Sting, Berlin, Sheehan, Hamm, Burton, Lee, Dunn


BP could do a better job. However, Pick up a Baseball or football magazine. now there is a bias

 

[aborgman]

We are talking apples and oranges. Prior to the late 1960s is prior to the government enforcing Civil Rights. Once the government decided to enforce the large, there was some foot dragging and some violence, but the White South hAd no choice but to accept the change.

...and I'm talking about prior to government enforcement.

Back to the topic, I would hope you are not using the need to appease those kinds of mentalities as a reason for a magazine to minimize diversity. Given who the president is, I somehow think America will not freak out over a few new Black faces in a magazine.

I don't think they are minimizing, or maximizing diversity - I think they are just catering to what they believe their customer base wants.

Apparently a lot of people feel that a for profit magazine has some sort of a moral/ethical duty to push social justice.

I don't.

I feel they have an ethical duty to maximize profits within the bounds of the law.

The popular for-profit media doesn't direct society, it reflects it.

 

[aborgman]

Lets think of legends/ heroes and race....

Jamerson, Rainey, Clarke, Miller, Wooten, Graham, Jaco, McCartney, Sting, Berlin, Sheehan, Hamm, Burton, Lee, Dunn

What about all those legends they ignore like Dragonetti, Bottesini, Simandl, Nanny, Koussevitzky, Karr, Zimmerman, Rabbath...

Is it just that they don't appeal to the readership, or is there some nefarious plot in not featuring them either?

 

[Dr. Cheese]

...and I'm talking about prior to government enforcement.

You're just coming up with "smart" answers to keep an argument going. If that floats your boat, go for it. Seriously, no one is surprised that folks were terrible before they had to change. The point is that once they had to change, they did change.

 

[chicago_mike]

Its almost like that certain blues magazine that doesnt cover white artists..

Well, not really...but I'd just figure I'd throw that out there..haven't had breakfast yet...

 

[willgroove2]

What about all those legends they ignore like Dragonetti, Bottesini, Simandl, Nanny, Koussevitzky, Karr, Zimmerman, Rabbath...

Is it just that they don't appeal to the readership, or is there some nefarious plot in not featuring them either?

BP by the fact of it's origins is slanted toward the electric bass and jazz upright communitys.

 

[willgroove2]

Its almost like that certain blues magazine that doesnt cover white artists..

Well, not really...but I'd just figure I'd throw that out there..haven't had breakfast yet...

There was a thread on here not long ago about what blues bassist to check out and I was surprised to find out that Jack Bruce,Barry Oakly,John paul Jones and Tommy Shanon were some of the top names mentioned . White blues musicians may not get the coverage from certain mag's but ask your self this;who get's more money for a gig Lonnie Brooks or Jonny Lang?

 

[aborgman]

BP by the fact of it's origins is slanted toward the electric bass and jazz upright communitys.

I'd also say that BP by the facts of its origin is slanted toward the rock and metal communities also - and I think that is a big part of it.

 

[aborgman]

White blues musicians may not get the coverage from certain mag's but ask your self this;who get's more money for a gig Lonnie Brooks or Jonny Lang?

Johnny Lang - because he's more popular. Nothing to do with skin color or talent.

Society may prefer him due to some institutional racism - but the promotion company is just catering to the desires of society, not determining them.

 

[aborgman]

Seriously, no one is surprised that folks were terrible before they had to change. The point is that once they had to change, they did change.

Do you believe its the duty of a magazine like BP to try to change society? I don't.

I don't believe they have any duty outside selling magazines and turning a profit within the bounds of the law.

 

[beggar98]

The only thing it proves is that you'll consider just about anything proof on your end. No offense of course.

How does this speak to the content of the entire magazine?

It doesn't.

I have never said, nor intended to imply, that the evidence I have put forth should be the end of the discussion. Rather, it should be the beginning. Only from looking at actual facts can we ever actually address a problem. Anecdotes and perceptions are way too susceptible to interpretation. Facts are what they are. That is, unless you're a George Bush, "my-mind-is-made-up, don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts" type.

 

[Dr_Funkdamental]

I have never said, nor intended to imply, that the evidence I have put forth should be the end of the discussion. Rather, it should be the beginning. Only from looking at actual facts can we ever actually address a problem. Anecdotes and perceptions are way too susceptible to interpretation. Facts are what they are. That is, unless you're a George Bush, "my-mind-is-made-up, don't-confuse-me-with-the-facts" type.

Thats always a dangerous area, partly because facts can change. Also, as given in this thread and media in general, anyone can use 'facts' to support their argument, small or large in attempt to sway.

On another note, I think if ppl really read the OP and specifically adressed it, half these replies wouldnt even exist.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Do you believe its the duty of a magazine like BP to try to change society? I don't.

I don't believe they have any duty outside selling magazines and turning a profit within the bounds of the law.

I can't speak for other people, but I clearly stated that I think there are sound financial reasons to support diversity. If you think someone else is making a social conscience argument, you need to quote them instead of me. I don't mind a debate, but I am really tired of people on this thread arguing about what they percieve instead what has actually been written.