personally, i don't follow the "bass crowd" or whatever, but I would have to say this: to win the game, you gotta play the game.
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Why no Hype for the young Brothers?
- Thread starter Billy Low
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Billy, you wouldn't happen to be this guy, would you??
j/k, I had to inject a little comedy into this thread in an attempt to bring it down a notch!
j/k, I had to inject a little comedy into this thread in an attempt to bring it down a notch!
- May 30, 2000
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- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
No, but he's a close personal friend. We just jammed out a few weeks ago. He is soooo nice! LOL!!!
In all honesty I think that the bass mag world is missing the boat marketing wise but not featuring these young cats. Think of how many people bought those speaker cables with the magnet ends or Epifani gear, just because they say Andrew Gouche in ads? Not to make the wrong point but seems these days the "urban" market spends more on thier gear and buys it more often.
When you think gospel bass what comes to mind? Ken Smith, Callowhill, MTD, etc.
I will admit sometimes they get some of the new urban talent. They gave Bubby and Jon Jon web a paragraph each lol.
I dont see it as much of a race issue as just a matter of who gets the press based on other things. I wish that they could make the mag larger and cover a little more each month esp with the new price!! I stopped my sub because its not enough of what I want to read.
When you think gospel bass what comes to mind? Ken Smith, Callowhill, MTD, etc.
I will admit sometimes they get some of the new urban talent. They gave Bubby and Jon Jon web a paragraph each lol.
I dont see it as much of a race issue as just a matter of who gets the press based on other things. I wish that they could make the mag larger and cover a little more each month esp with the new price!! I stopped my sub because its not enough of what I want to read.
You are making a great point. Young, inner city players really seem to favor boutique basses in much higher percentages than other young players. Featuring young, black players in ads makes a whole lot of sense. Brian Barrett, the LowEnd man, takes that approach on his website, and it seems to work for him.
The fact he makes an ultra hot bass doesn't hurt either!
Come to think of it MTD is also very mindful of its popularity among Gospel players, and features them prominently on their website. Magazines like BP would be wise to take such facts into account.
but I don't believe it would be looked upon as favoriably.
I think you know you answered your own question right there...that attitude in this country stinks. If you went round hyping yourself at every chance you know exactly how you would be perceived, and I think that is not right.
But look at the other side of the coin, there are a lot of people of all races, running round talking shi..um...smack and don't have the goods. And given some of the attitudes in this country, every time a "brother" starts talking real loud, a number of people cop the attitude you reference. But sometimes, the guy talking real loud can yell the words, but has done nothing to merit the rewards or has no skills to bring the rewards.
You ask us to see your point, you have to see this point too.
you understand that those "known" circles are closed and that people are placed into those circles don't you
Absolutely! And it doesn't matter who you are or what background you have. And it is like that in circles outside the music biz too.
Nor do many of them wield any power or desire to see others get the pub
Human natue. Very few people like to see others succeed or eclipse their own success. It is rare anywhere in the world to see someone help propel someone with more talent into te spotlight. And those who do sometimes only do so if the talented one has enough money to give. It stinks, all the way around.
As to how to change it? If I knew I'd be Pope of the Earth or something.
I know that we all say it isn't, and we all wish it wasn't so, but from where I have stood, it always has a way of turning into one.
Who has the newest amp, the best endorsment deals, the most strings on their bass, most cd's sold, the biggest tour bus, the most times mentioned in a magazine. ect..
comparing what you have done against the acomplishments of others is a pretty common way of measuring yourself. It is done throughout life , not just in music.
Now that said: I propose a "Bass Off" between Janek and Billy Low!
A one time - winner take all, cage match. Let the games begin.
Great Idea! That is one way to get a wave going......Peronally I have learned about a great many different bands and players that I never knew existed, since coming here and being led to you tube....
You're correct sir. I was aware that I answered my own question. That was the point. Like you say there are people that may not be as gifted as others that yell, but does that mean that what they yell is invalid? Many times issue that need tending are handled too late or improperly because some supposed expert ignores the little guy, not realizing that 1. they are where they are because of the little guy and B. they too were once desiring to be heard when they were the little guy and Fourthly: In the grand scheme of things, we are all just little guys!!!
Many people do a disservice to themselves and others by placing unnecessary quantitative and qualitative qualifiers in paths that they need not be. Imagine this, I yell fire, but you ignore me because I am not a fireman. how much damage is done?
I saw first hand how this attitude can cost lives. Three months ago my grandmother was hospitalized and my sister was with her at the hospital. As the attending doctor began to examine my grandmother my sister tells him what is wrong with her using defined medical terminology. The doctor gets agitated and asks "what, are you a nurse or something?" My sister proceeds to tell him that she is indeed a physician (internal medicine). The doctor starts questioning her in regards to her credentials, so she begins to tell him, in the middle of doing so my sister stops and says that it's not important and that my grandmothers health is the issue. The doctor directly insults my sister and ignores my sister's observations and diagnosis. He orders test and begins to treat my grandmother for something unrelated. My grandmothers condition worsens and has become grave. My sister picks up her cell phone and calls the chief of staff in front of the doctor and describes the actions and behaviors that the doctor exhibited. The COS orders the doctor to cooperate with my sister. Long story short, my grandmother gets better. The point is, this doctor disqualified my sister without knowing that she herself had served part of her residency on the very floor that my grandmother was on and that the COS is her mentor!
Just because you aren't aware of who a person is means nothing. Everyone has a right to be heard. No man is less important than the other.
BTW, anybody notice that I used three words in a sentence that starts with the letter Q? LOL!!!
Speaking just about the Gospel players, this is probably more indicative of the mainstream music press' fear of anything that is overtly religious than it is a race issue. Gospel and Christian Contemporary acts sell huge amounts of records and book sold-out tours all across the country, but you get no mention of them in Rolling Stone. Its understandable that secular publications would want to steer clear of religion, but it will leave some artists under-represented.
Lets see... BassPlayer magazine. If I was new on the planet from oh lets say Mars i would think it was a magazine about bass players. I would think it was about bass players past and present who made and are making valuable contibutions to the evolution of bass playing bass knowledge and music culture. Now if that was truely the goal it would not matter who your "demographic" is as someone stated early on. It would not matter if 80 percent of your readership was of a certain race. That stat would not mean that 80 percent of the bassists featured should be of that race. I would think that a valuable contribution to the world of bass by any player would be the main focus regardless of what color they are. Call me crazy but I was just thinking out loud.
That's one naive alien. BassPlayer is not there as a record of which bass players matter and which don't, it is there to sell advertising. Even a martian should know that...
... and thats one of the problems with BP... no integrety.
I suppose, but if it had the "integrity" you want it would've been out of print years ago.
And ya, that sucks what the Doc did to your sis. It is amazing how quickly the arrogant and proud dismiss another qualified opinion...he assumed your sis knew nothing and went with it. Despite her revealing she was also a doctor. Thankfully your Grandma got better.
And as to this - Everyone has a right to be heard. No man is less important than the other. You are absolutely correct! And every person should have the chance to prove their abilities before being judged.
But then I guess that was your whole point from the start....
And did you notice I used only one word that started with a Q?
Ampeg moving production to Asia is a thread killer...but this goes on for 4 pages. TalkBass; TalkRace. Which ?
Guys/gals...to clear up a toxic misconception that seems to be gaining traction among some in this thread, we, the editors of Bass Player Magazine, could care less what color a player is. I mean, it absolutely never comes up. In fact, I don't think it ever would occur to us to BRING it up. Prior to Bill and Greg's departure, the in-office staff was Bill Leigh, Brian Fox, Greg Olwell, and me. A diverse bunch in nearly every category. Bill, Brian, and Greg are just three of the coolest people you'll ever meet, and sadly, many of you will probably not get a chance...such is life.
As for the diversity of our coverage, presuming you believe the statement above about race, then I hope you'll understand that we choose to represent the art and craft of bass playing as best we can each issue. We do this in about 40 pages each month. Factor in non-artist coverage and departments, like product reviews, letters, the table of contents, Woodshed instructional columns, etc., and your down to about 25 pages or so...often less. Within these pages we task ourselves with the following priorities:
1. Except for the rare gear cover, a newsworthy artist-related story that will work for the cover. In order to "work" for the cover, this story must be (A) compelling in and of itself, and (B) of broad enough appeal to actually convince the non-subscribing readership to pick up the magazine and hopefully not just read it on a bench in the Borders magazine section, bending the pages, smearing in their latte drops and thus making that particular copy the yucky one that no one else will buy either,
2. Perhaps another feature, ideally stylistically differentiated from the cover story in order to further satisfy our wonderfully eclectic readership.
3. A bunch of other great artists with new records, tours, theater gigs, anniversary, career milestones, general bad-assedness, etc. Ideally this array of awesome bass players will represent the breadth of bass playing, from metal to funk to gospel to country to jazz to fusion to baltic to whatever....
Remember...25 pages...often less. It's tough, cats. Really. But, it's (give or take some pages) what the magazine has done better than anyone else for 20 years. How do we learn of these wonderful players? Well...hmm...we meet a bunch of them at gigs, the NAMM show, Bass Player live, out on the town, etc. We get calls and calls and calls and emails and calls and emails and calls from the players, their publicists, their wives, their children, their lawyers, blah blah...We pay attention to the community; we listen to the manufacturers, we read your emails, we check out Talkbass...we generally do our best to stay in touch with what's going on.
We're not perfect. I get hundreds of emails a day, discounting those from Nigerian royalty, they're mostly publicity, either of artists or gear. My phone rings non-stop. Meanwhile, a magazine must be made. That involves NOT answering the phone or responding to email, which is rarely possible. Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that I want to be hip to every single incredible player out there, but I'm only one editor. So, help me out. If you think we're severely missing the boat on someone...let me know.
I will say this, though. The guys that get attention tend to be those who represent themselves professionally. That doesn't mean having a Major Label publicity machine behind you, but it does mean understanding that this is the music business, and we're only one cog in an otherwise largely impersonal machine that demands that you have your act together in order to participate. That is, if anything, a barrier to some players getting the recognition they deserve.
I love bass as much as any of you, and nothing makes me happier than knowing a BP story has contributed to a fellow player's career. I always want to share the love. Trust me.
Rant over. Feel free to email me at [email protected] Oh, and on behalf of my extraordinarily smart, talented, and capable co-workers, many of whom have done a lot for this community and art we all love, I don't appreciate the "no integrity" comment.
Jonathan Herrera
Senior Editor
BASS PLAYER
As for the diversity of our coverage, presuming you believe the statement above about race, then I hope you'll understand that we choose to represent the art and craft of bass playing as best we can each issue. We do this in about 40 pages each month. Factor in non-artist coverage and departments, like product reviews, letters, the table of contents, Woodshed instructional columns, etc., and your down to about 25 pages or so...often less. Within these pages we task ourselves with the following priorities:
1. Except for the rare gear cover, a newsworthy artist-related story that will work for the cover. In order to "work" for the cover, this story must be (A) compelling in and of itself, and (B) of broad enough appeal to actually convince the non-subscribing readership to pick up the magazine and hopefully not just read it on a bench in the Borders magazine section, bending the pages, smearing in their latte drops and thus making that particular copy the yucky one that no one else will buy either,
2. Perhaps another feature, ideally stylistically differentiated from the cover story in order to further satisfy our wonderfully eclectic readership.
3. A bunch of other great artists with new records, tours, theater gigs, anniversary, career milestones, general bad-assedness, etc. Ideally this array of awesome bass players will represent the breadth of bass playing, from metal to funk to gospel to country to jazz to fusion to baltic to whatever....
Remember...25 pages...often less. It's tough, cats. Really. But, it's (give or take some pages) what the magazine has done better than anyone else for 20 years. How do we learn of these wonderful players? Well...hmm...we meet a bunch of them at gigs, the NAMM show, Bass Player live, out on the town, etc. We get calls and calls and calls and emails and calls and emails and calls from the players, their publicists, their wives, their children, their lawyers, blah blah...We pay attention to the community; we listen to the manufacturers, we read your emails, we check out Talkbass...we generally do our best to stay in touch with what's going on.
We're not perfect. I get hundreds of emails a day, discounting those from Nigerian royalty, they're mostly publicity, either of artists or gear. My phone rings non-stop. Meanwhile, a magazine must be made. That involves NOT answering the phone or responding to email, which is rarely possible. Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that I want to be hip to every single incredible player out there, but I'm only one editor. So, help me out. If you think we're severely missing the boat on someone...let me know.
I will say this, though. The guys that get attention tend to be those who represent themselves professionally. That doesn't mean having a Major Label publicity machine behind you, but it does mean understanding that this is the music business, and we're only one cog in an otherwise largely impersonal machine that demands that you have your act together in order to participate. That is, if anything, a barrier to some players getting the recognition they deserve.
I love bass as much as any of you, and nothing makes me happier than knowing a BP story has contributed to a fellow player's career. I always want to share the love. Trust me.
Rant over. Feel free to email me at [email protected] Oh, and on behalf of my extraordinarily smart, talented, and capable co-workers, many of whom have done a lot for this community and art we all love, I don't appreciate the "no integrity" comment.
Jonathan Herrera
Senior Editor
BASS PLAYER
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