I have wanted to play music since I was very small. I consider it a lifelong pursuit. As long as I'm enjoying it I'm going to "keep on playin' no matter with who."
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Why not relax?
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
I took a long time off before starting again at around 55. I’m 62 now. I’ll never be a shredder. Heck, the way things look, I may not find people to play with and get to play out like I did back in the day. But I keep at it. It is actually relaxing to pick up my bass for half hour to an hour a night and spend time shedding on the weekends.
I completely understand the point of the OP.
But what keeps me up many a night is the knowledge of the fact that when I leave this world; there will be absolutely nothing left to prove I was ever here.
But what keeps me up many a night is the knowledge of the fact that when I leave this world; there will be absolutely nothing left to prove I was ever here.
As I face my own mortality, I think the same thing. No one cares.
I was absent from the forum for a month, no one even whispered, 'where is he?'.
Do it, stop shopping!
Commenting to relaxing, that's what I did about gear, no more looking up the inventory of the nearest GC or Sam-Ash online, no more visiting the local Music-store just because I was nearby.
No more of a lot of things, things that used to bring 'stuff' home!
Learn to enjoy what you have & learn how to get better at using it.
This is NOT a swipe at your skill-level, we could all improve.
I was absent from the forum for a month, no one even whispered, 'where is he?'.
Do it, stop shopping!
Commenting to relaxing, that's what I did about gear, no more looking up the inventory of the nearest GC or Sam-Ash online, no more visiting the local Music-store just because I was nearby.
No more of a lot of things, things that used to bring 'stuff' home!
Learn to enjoy what you have & learn how to get better at using it.
This is NOT a swipe at your skill-level, we could all improve.
I’m not so sure being a shredder is proof positive of being a great bassist. I’m also not sure attained age will reduce your ability for growth of your skills and knowledge.
For me, it’s about fulfillment as an artist. As long as I can do the job and or still create, at age 67 soon to be 68 I’m not giving it up.
As for my gear when I join the choir invisible, my son is a pro bassist and he can have it. Knowing him, he will end up keeping the Basses, sell all the amps and cabs and buy a good DI. LOL!!!
Most Able to relax is the trait that I most favor about typical bass players . Its only a church gig but I suspect you have fun playing it .
Sucks to see these greats kicking off but in reality you know they have to be stoked knowing they somehow influenced or made someone's time on this planet if just for a moment a little better .
Sucks to see these greats kicking off but in reality you know they have to be stoked knowing they somehow influenced or made someone's time on this planet if just for a moment a little better .
I like the idea of a whole lot of chops, I don’t have to use them.
If it makes you happy then keep going for it. While I'm impressed I also can get discouraged seeing virtuosos on Youtube who grew up in a musical family and started playing at age seven or younger. I'm a fan of Victor Wooten and he is a great person but I don't have a chance in Haities to ever catch up to his level of talent but that's ok.
I play for myself and my own satisfaction and that is enough for me. Don't waste time and effort trying to be as good as the world's greatest. Just be the best you can be and be happy with that. My point is to just have realistic standards for yourself and spend more time with players that suck instead of trying to play up to the level of your heroes. It's all relative.
Also, I lost my mother earlier this year and I can assure you that your family will appreciate your dedication, talent and even your gear more than you think. And it's very likely that your daughter will have a greater interest in your talent once your missed and that will likely inspire her to play even more.
I play for myself and my own satisfaction and that is enough for me. Don't waste time and effort trying to be as good as the world's greatest. Just be the best you can be and be happy with that. My point is to just have realistic standards for yourself and spend more time with players that suck instead of trying to play up to the level of your heroes. It's all relative.
Also, I lost my mother earlier this year and I can assure you that your family will appreciate your dedication, talent and even your gear more than you think. And it's very likely that your daughter will have a greater interest in your talent once your missed and that will likely inspire her to play even more.
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This X 100000000!
I've been playing since I was 14. Turned 65 this year. At some point 30+ years ago, I decided that it was more important to be a successful father & partner to my wife, than a semi-successful musician. Don't get me wrong; I LOVE to play. But I began to understand that being a success in this business would demand more of me than I was willing to give.
But I still strive to improve as a player and master as much of this art as I can. To what end, I'm not exactly sure. All I know is that it brings me joy to play. There's always something new to learn, and I'll continue to do it for as long as that's true.
Lessening the focus on gear, I think, is a natural progression of getting older and refining our priorities. I still like to buy gear, but my purchases are much more focused and targeted to specific goals.
I think I can understand. Doc, you seem like a pretty motivated goal-oriented person from your posts. As I have aged, I have realized that some of my own musical goals have become unattainable due to how the world has changed, loss of physical and mental acuity, and competing demands for my time and attention. FWIW, I'm in my mid-60's and still working a full time straight job.
When I was younger, I was a professional musician for several periods over about a decade. This started back in the mid-70's and was a very heady experience. Some of my musical mates had brief success but lost whatever they had, a few capitalized on whatever they had earned and turned it into something else, a very few had lasting success and became professional musicians who still perform, and sadly, many died early deaths due to self-destructive lifestyles. Early on I realized that I was just a bass player, not particularly talented, I could play bass acceptably but I couldn't sing well and the songs I wrote were terrible. As it turned out, people were willing to pay me a lot more money to do other things that I was good at. I married, and together with my wife raised a family. I had the joy of introducing my kids to music but I never stopped playing. In the back of my head I never abandoned my musical goals.
Then about the same time I found TalkBass I kinda woke up and looked around. The world had really changed. The music biz, and people's musical preferences as to what and how they listened to music had left me wondering what had happened. After a series of bad experiences, I realized that I had absolutely no interest in playing in bands that did sloppy covers of standard rock/pop songs. I also looked in the mirror and realized that young people don't want to see an old man playing bass and singing original lyrics about girls. So instead, I set about to learn bass techniques to become as you put it, a shredder. I dedicated 2 - 3 hours a day to practicing over almost a full decade, kept a practice diary, and ran down a list of skills I wanted to master. I got better at most of them, but I never approached the level of You Tube virtuosity. I also found some age appropriate groups to occasionally gig with. One side effect of this is that I was able to measure my kinesthetic performance over time, as I would record metronome and exercise performance data to see if I was actually improving. One frightening aspect of this was that for a time, the improvement was steady, but then it started to stagnate, and in some cases deteriorate.
What I have learned is this, and I think this is what you're getting at, and I couldn't agree more. When you say relax, you mean stop using the attainment of your goals as the measure of your success. It's the journey that counts. Having goals is a good way to focus your playing but it's more important to enjoy the ride. At least for me, since I adopted this outlook, I've been a much happier person and ironically, a much better player.
When I was younger, I was a professional musician for several periods over about a decade. This started back in the mid-70's and was a very heady experience. Some of my musical mates had brief success but lost whatever they had, a few capitalized on whatever they had earned and turned it into something else, a very few had lasting success and became professional musicians who still perform, and sadly, many died early deaths due to self-destructive lifestyles. Early on I realized that I was just a bass player, not particularly talented, I could play bass acceptably but I couldn't sing well and the songs I wrote were terrible. As it turned out, people were willing to pay me a lot more money to do other things that I was good at. I married, and together with my wife raised a family. I had the joy of introducing my kids to music but I never stopped playing. In the back of my head I never abandoned my musical goals.
Then about the same time I found TalkBass I kinda woke up and looked around. The world had really changed. The music biz, and people's musical preferences as to what and how they listened to music had left me wondering what had happened. After a series of bad experiences, I realized that I had absolutely no interest in playing in bands that did sloppy covers of standard rock/pop songs. I also looked in the mirror and realized that young people don't want to see an old man playing bass and singing original lyrics about girls. So instead, I set about to learn bass techniques to become as you put it, a shredder. I dedicated 2 - 3 hours a day to practicing over almost a full decade, kept a practice diary, and ran down a list of skills I wanted to master. I got better at most of them, but I never approached the level of You Tube virtuosity. I also found some age appropriate groups to occasionally gig with. One side effect of this is that I was able to measure my kinesthetic performance over time, as I would record metronome and exercise performance data to see if I was actually improving. One frightening aspect of this was that for a time, the improvement was steady, but then it started to stagnate, and in some cases deteriorate.
What I have learned is this, and I think this is what you're getting at, and I couldn't agree more. When you say relax, you mean stop using the attainment of your goals as the measure of your success. It's the journey that counts. Having goals is a good way to focus your playing but it's more important to enjoy the ride. At least for me, since I adopted this outlook, I've been a much happier person and ironically, a much better player.
Hey Doc,
Don't dis being a church musician - the world needs us (I'm one, too). Yes, it's possible (though not likely) that, if we had been "serious" in our early years, we could have been famous, or rich, or....something. And maybe, we could have kicked the bucket in our 50's or 60's from a lifestyle related illness. Or died at 27 from an overdose, like a lot of rock stars.
We're musicians. We're good at it. Lots of people hear the music we play at church, and maybe because of the music, they come more often, something creeps into them from the lecture after the music, and they live better lives as a result.
We're part of making the world a better place. That's a good thing. Work with that.
Don't dis being a church musician - the world needs us (I'm one, too). Yes, it's possible (though not likely) that, if we had been "serious" in our early years, we could have been famous, or rich, or....something. And maybe, we could have kicked the bucket in our 50's or 60's from a lifestyle related illness. Or died at 27 from an overdose, like a lot of rock stars.
We're musicians. We're good at it. Lots of people hear the music we play at church, and maybe because of the music, they come more often, something creeps into them from the lecture after the music, and they live better lives as a result.
We're part of making the world a better place. That's a good thing. Work with that.
Yeah, I gave up some time ago in my purchases. I actually believed the gear snobs who told me my Musicmasters weren't good enough, our PA was too small, etc. Wait, we had a full dance floor, even if we play smaller venues here in Central WI, had some laughs and went home with $$ in our pockets. Success!
Family is #1, job that pays well and provides for #1-that's #2, music is #3!
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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If you cultivate enough different playing experiences you'll get a chance to use them eventually. And at least IME, that's how you really get those chops to begin with, by playing with better players who push you in ways that nothing else really can. As a player with very humble skills, I've often had to play for free (jams and/or open mikes) or take less desirable gigs to get that playing exerience, but eventually it did at least lead to enough decent paying gigs to buy all the gear I ever wanted. Being more process than goal oriented has always served me well, as I don't find competitiveness to bring out the best in me most of the time.
But of course right now my solution just isn't practical or maybe even responsible.
Age does have at least one perk; you don’t have to project that you are tough or cool anymore.
I think you mean we don't have to pretend that we're cool, because by just being who we are...we are cool - in a natural, not phony sense.
I was in music school (for trumpet) right after high school. I quickly realized I didn't have the temperament to be a pro musician, I just have other interests and like to split my time on other things. Now I have a day job and a family; being a weekend warrior is the perfect balance of musical engagement, while not being overwhelming.
Still, I catch myself thinking I need to push myself musically. Maybe bite off more than I can chew. Maybe it’s my classical upbringing. I stress out over my practice routine, when it is all self imposed anyway. I’ve gotten much better at choosing the “right” amount of challenge to be engaging and rewarding- but I still have to remind myself to relax, and have fun!
I am good enough to earn the respect of my band mates and peers, and I make enough cash to fuel my gear fund. That’s all the “fame and fortune” I could ever need!
Still, I catch myself thinking I need to push myself musically. Maybe bite off more than I can chew. Maybe it’s my classical upbringing. I stress out over my practice routine, when it is all self imposed anyway. I’ve gotten much better at choosing the “right” amount of challenge to be engaging and rewarding- but I still have to remind myself to relax, and have fun!
I am good enough to earn the respect of my band mates and peers, and I make enough cash to fuel my gear fund. That’s all the “fame and fortune” I could ever need!
You need to put the time, effort and be working on the right things to make any significant improvements at anything you do, especially music. But the great thing about music, is you do not have to be that good at it to get personal enjoyment out of it. If you are going to play with others, play out and/or perform, that's a different story.
I have never had great chops and I am okay with that. I play in bands and my technical abilities get the job done for the material we do. I haven't done meaningful practice in years. That does not include learning and performing songs. I consider practice as working on material you cannot do (or do very well).
Having limited time to devote to music, I just find that being able to play and enjoying it are the most important things. When the kids grow up a bit, I would like to be a little more focussed and practice again as I know there are a lot of things I can improve in my playing and musical skills overall.
EDIT: The "it takes 10,000 hours" to master something theory; you could play 10,000 hours on your instrument and not be a master. You have be actively learning and improving on your instrument, not just playing it!
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Reading about gear on TB has certainly taught me to trust my judgement. Before TB, I loved Modulus basses with their 16.5 or 17mm spacing and 35” scale. I log in here and I run into folks who say only 19mm spacing is good and folks who swear they cannot handle 35.” Personally 34 or 35” work for me. I can do 16.5-17.5mm and I can 19mm just fine also.
Also so many licks and riffs and runs sound stilted when we are focusing on technique and never work until years later having forgotten all about it they pop in to the inner mental ear and having forgotten all the technical points we "fake it" out in a relaxed way and suddenly working vocabulary has increased.
