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Why the bass community is hurting itself.

#61
I'm the exception to the TB rule it seems: I don't buy things intending to sell them, so I don't look to potential profit margin when deciding whether it's an acceptable deal.

Therefore, if I list something for sale, I expect to get a reasonable price given the item's condition: fair value.
I am not in desperate need of the money, so if no one will accept a reasonable price, I keep it.

If the buyer thinks they can outlast my patience to get a super cheap price they're wrong, it won't happen.
I'm not taking a big loss just to be rid of something, presumably if that was the potential case then I shouldn't have bought the thing in the first place. I still feel better served by just keeping the item, or possibly even donating to a worthy charity case, but to sell at a grossly underpriced point I find is just insulting.

Whether or not this is considered an unrealistic or ineffective policy, I don't care, just as I don't care a whit if someone thinks I overpaid for something I really want.

Cost effective use of my money is determined (by me) by how long I'll own an item, how much I'll get out of it's use, as well as the initial outlay (which is not the main concern in any case).
 
#62
BawanaRik said:
Buzz words don't solve problems. It's very expensive to ship good to the US from foreign ports.

Income inequality? Everyone in the US is living pretty good. Three hots and a cot. Talk to your Grandparents about how life was a few years back. Income inequality seems trivial when you can't get water or food for you family. And for many people on the planet that's a daily struggle.
Click to expand...

At the risk of getting off topic, we're kinda living nicely at their expense. We can pay them pennies on the dollar and let them pollute their own rivers and skies, and not have to worry about their workers' rights and get bigger profit margins for the companies at lower costs for us consumers. Yes, they're happy to have jobs, just as anyone at the bottom is, but we're exploiting the heck out of them.
 
#63
Ebay has brought Fungable to the masses. It truly is a Market capitol M.

Remember people paying thousands for refin Jazz Basses. Not so much anymore.

I suspect the "recession" would and will have been much worse without the bay.


M.R. Ogle said:
Interesting observation. I guess that the Squier sits at a dollar level where a MUCH greater percentage of the buying market can compete. More potential buyers = more likely sale.

The Alembic, even though it is an object of desire to many, sits at a price point that STILL disqualifies a big chunk of the buyers in the market. It's like if somebody offered you a Ferrari for 50K cash today... yeah, it's a great price, but it has to wait for a guy who has 50 grand in cash to spare.

And, I still marvel at the effect of the internet (Let's face it, we're primarily talking about eBay) on buying and selling instruments. Some complain about the fees, but if you have something to sell, the 'Bay enables you to offer it to the entire WORLD, 24 hours a day... if theres a buyer for your item anywhere in the world, you have a MUCH better chance of finding them now. Try purchasing a three-line ad in every "recycler" paper in the US and see if it compares favorably with an eBay listing fee.
And the "Completed listings" give me a real-time barometer for pricing anything I want to sell. Combined with all the free information to make buyers and sellers more informed, I think it's been a real stabilizing factor in the buying and selling of instruments. The highs and lows are gone, but the "value" is definitively established daily.
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#64
In my opinion the whole idea of the deal is that both parties are happy. Price is merely a function of what you're willing to pay. Anyone over interested in what you've paid is, well, overly interested.

kcole4001 said:
I'm the exception to the TB rule it seems: I don't buy things intending to sell them, so I don't look to potential profit margin when deciding whether it's an acceptable deal.

Therefore, if I list something for sale, I expect to get a reasonable price given the item's condition: fair value.
I am not in desperate need of the money, so if no one will accept a reasonable price, I keep it.

If the buyer thinks they can outlast my patience to get a super cheap price they're wrong, it won't happen.
I'm not taking a big loss just to be rid of something, presumably if that was the potential case then I shouldn't have bought the thing in the first place. I still feel better served by just keeping the item, or possibly even donating to a worthy charity case, but to sell at a grossly underpriced point I find is just insulting.

Whether or not this is considered an unrealistic or ineffective policy, I don't care, just as I don't care a whit if someone thinks I overpaid for something I really want.

Cost effective use of my money is determined (by me) by how long I'll own an item, how much I'll get out of it's use, as well as the initial outlay (which is not the main concern in any case).
Click to expand...
 
#65
"It's the economy stupid" borrowing a quote to make a point. In this economy, very few people have cash flow. Most sellers are selling because they need cash flow....so who is more motivated by money? The seller usually has a more urgent need and a wise buyer with cash can read the tea leaves of the current market.

If I want a used Ric and I see some one selling for $1900....I know there will be another guy in a week or less selling the same bass fro $1400. Not difficult to figure what the wise buyer is going to do.
 
#67
BawanaRik said:
In my opinion the whole idea of the deal is that both parties are happy. Price is merely a function of what you're willing to pay. Anyone over interested in what you've paid is, well, overly interested.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
In March I intend to purchase the rather unique item like that shown in your avatar.
Some will say that the price is outrageous and that one could easily find a much cheaper alternative, but that's not what I want, I want the name brand real deal and would never be fully satisfied with something more...generic.
Like buying a 4003, limited edition Taurus III pedals costs what they cost, and I'm reconciled with that if I can round up the cash.
If I can't then I wait until I can, I don't rant and moan about the 'high price of _________' as many do.

Again, I'm unusual in that regard.

Also, the wise buyer realizes that getting a decent deal may well be better than waiting for the really great deal that never comes around or is missed because he's on vacation, or whatever.
I purchase an out of print game module for four times the original selling price a few years ago when I could have had it two years earlier for $80 less, but didn't think that the price was reasonable until even fewer copies were left on sale and the price kept going up (and didn't really have the money anyway).
Now I couldn't find one for sale for even more than what I paid.
 
#68
The law of supply and demand for any market is a moving target that constantly ebbs and flows according to the complex interactions of many factors. It is what it is and I don't think we can ever dream of having any kind of control over it. All you can do is try to get the most money for your stuff when you sell ... with the understanding that if it is priced too high, it may take a long time to sell ... and if you offer too little for something you really want, it may very well go to another buyer who is willing to pay more. It's the same game of chicken that has probably gone on since Homo Sapiens first walked the savannas of East Africa a hundred thousand years ago.
 
#69
The current economic climate means it is a buyer's market, simple as that.

The current economic climate means people overall have less money to spend, musical instruments generally class as a luxury item (I'm told - at least for those who don't work as fully pro musicians) - thus squeezing new sales - many manufacturers seem to be parking production as inventory in large distributors like GC - some of which eventually gets sold at ridiculously low prices.

The current 'music fashion' is for passive Fender basses - love em or hate em (I'm 50/50 in that respect) - but this does mean that the general demand for them hikes the prices in relation to other elements of their value as basses.

I think this last point is fuelled by the music industry generally looking backwards to the 60s for it's sound, and also by many name musicians using this type of equipment - I have seen two famous (in UK) bands from the late 80s early 90s live in the last 12 months and both bass players used vintage Fenders - which is neither correct visually or sonically for the music - indeed I didn't enjoy one of the bands for this reason - their hits didn't sound right at all. Call me cynical but I'm curious what causes this - maybe they have found an instrument they love - but I think this may also be top musicians' ways of separating/elevating themselves from the general musicians/hobby players - many of whom play name basses these days. After all, many players whose playing became famous, say in the 70s, used brand new instruments - not vintage ones - so maybe the music industry (current fashion), top players and the general vintage thing is hurting the part of the bass community which is not focussed on these types of instruments?

I am a fan of Musicman basses - I have had to buy all of mine sight unseen to get the models/colours I wanted - there is simply not enough inventory in the UK to be able to buy from stock - thankfully they produce consistently and to a good standard so I have only praise, not complaints. The same to an extent with Fenders - I say to an extent - even with them, if you want something other than bog standard you will have to order it - I would be a little more worried to do this.

But I understand your rant!! And I'm as guilty as anyone buying on line - it can be the only way to get a decent deal. And buying basses used on Ebay or from forums is something which is now common place, but would have been considered science fiction 30 yrs ago - you had a choice of shop inventory or classified ads in music and other journals back then - so the internet has made the market huge and far more accessible for sellers and buyers of musical instruments - and tyre kickers, and guys who will wait for people to drop prices to buy.
 
#71
smeet said:
That's the crux of the matter. We live in a Capitalist system, and this is how it works. Outsourcing, downsizing, income inequality, being automated out of a job which you need in order to participate in said system... These are all logical eventual outcomes of the system as it is set up.
Click to expand...

I can't believe you made a post like this and no one called you Karl.

Not that I disagree with you, I'm just surprised someone didn't.
 
#72
This thread and this #%^*+ economy are why barter can be a better value on places like TB.
I recently traded an early Ken Smith here for a Veilette. I got major value out of the deal! I traded one thoroughbred for another, a 4 string bass I no longer play for a 5er that will see gig and recording sessions.
The other reason basses (and everything) are trading so cheap now is twofold:
1) scarcity of funds
2)people who are willing to take advantage of scarcity of funds.

I still concur with the OP.
 
#73
I buy almost everything used, with the knowledge that new equipment (of any kind) loses half of its value almost instantly. Knowing what I like, I just keep an eye out for a good deal and am ready to jump on it when I see it. If its priced too high (or too close to market), it either gets passed up or watched, because I don't like lowballing folks.

I sell based on the same idea, and I rarely lose much money. If anything, I break even or pocket a bit for my next GAS attack.
 
#75
The Internet created liquidity and drove used prices WAY up. I paid $900 for a mint pedulla ET6 in the 90s. Then I couldn't find a buyer when I waned to sell it.

A used bass does not have a warranty and should sell for much less than new. You have to price the risk.
 
#76
TRichardsbass said:
Just the thought process that is killing true value. And no, true value is not always set by "what the market will bear."
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Yes........yes it is and it always has been. The value of any instrument is what someone is willing to pay in the market at that time. When the economy is down and there are less buyers, then those buyers have the power to drive prices down. It's just the way it works.

What, exactly, were your options before the internet? An add in the local classifieds? A guitar show? Consignment? Pawn shop? How about the dreadful trade-in and 50% of USED value? Are we really so short-sighted as to believe that 20-30 years ago was the glory days of selling used instruments?
 
#78
I know what you mean, Richard, but it's hard to compare realities so different. Here in Chile that happens to sometimes, but I tend to put the price I really want (a tad higher, just like you) so I can negotiate later, and if somebody is selling the same thing at a lower price, I won't mind, I'll keep my price cuz I know it's a fair price and wait for someone who will actually want it, and I've sold various instruments amongst other things just like that.

You have to know how to highlight the pros of your product vs all of the other ones. Starting with better pics and being professional when selling. That's what I think, at least. Works for me.
 
#79
I've sold 3 things on Craigslist or TB. I searched for what I was selling and saw what other people were asking for and the condition of the gear. My stuff was in good condition, and I wasn't in a rush to sell. I chose to price my stuff at 25$ less than the average asking price for similar gear. Because of this I sold all of them within a few days. I don't feel ripped off. I bought the gear used and after a few years of use sold each piece for about 15% less than what I paid originally. It is called a free market for a reason. I personally don't like to buy basses unless I can play them first. Too many variables when it comes to wood. I'll buy video games online, but if I was buying a couch, I would want to see how it feels first. I go to the store.
 

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