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Why the hate towards lined fretless?

#341
1. In normal playing position, I can barely see 10% of my fingerboard.

2. I can, on the other hand, see the side dots and I use them regularly.

3. 99% of the lined basses I've seen or played have the side dots "off-pitch;" in other words, where the dots would be on a fretted bass. This requires twice as many decisions to be made. Locate the side dot, then figure out how far away from the side dot the proper pitch is located.

If I were playing 1s and 5s over three-chord pieces of music, this wouldn't likely be an an issue. But I use large position changes, string-crossings, and double/triple-stop voicings that require a quick, reliable visual aid followed by fine-tuning with my ears. A lined board hinders my ability to play spontaneously. With an unlined board and side dots at pitch (3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 17), my playing is unhindered by the design of the bass.
 
#344
FretlessMainly said:
1. In normal playing position, I can barely see 10% of my fingerboard.
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Much less if you are sight reading. Like essentially 0%.

FretlessMainly said:
3. 99% of the lined basses I've seen or played have the side dots "off-pitch;" in other words, where the dots would be on a fretted bass. This requires twice as many decisions to be made. Locate the side dot, then figure out how far away from the side dot the proper pitch is located.
Click to expand...
Very much the experience for many players. On a fretted it is common to use the side dot as your fingering target. This is actually a non-preferred technique for a variety of reasons, IMO. Better to target the string stop immediately behind the fret. The dot is intended to indicate positions, not fingering targets; a distinction not shared by all players.

Reason I say this is that transition to fretless with lines and dots in traditional positions makes more sense if the fretted is approached with "fret target technique."

However, your post is a very common reaction and the experience for many players; so, YMMV.
 
#345
bucephylus said:
Maybe this belongs in technique and is a bit of derail, but I am curious what methods you cats are using to develop muscle memory on fretless EBG, lined or unlined?
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I do depend on the side dots pretty heavily, but the more I play, the less I tend to need to look. So, practice, practice, practice, I guess. However, the side dots are crucial to me for shifts, and I even wish I had a dot at the first fret position, because shifting to that inky void can be unsettling.

I play standing up almost all the time, and I wouldn't be able to see lines anyway without craning my neck. Disclaimer: this is in no way a negative judgement of anyone who likes lines on their fretless neck.
 
#346
pkstone said:
I do depend on the side dots pretty heavily, but the more I play, the less I tend to need to look. So, practice, practice, practice, I guess. However, the side dots are crucial to me for shifts, and I even wish I had a dot at the first fret position, because shifting to that inky void can be unsettling.
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Right. Except that when reading you don't get to look.:eek:

So, you are absolutely correct about practice; and some kind of systematic approach is a huge benefit to avoid the "inky void." Great description, BTW.

This, IMO, is a much more important topic vs some kind of cosmetically oriented question - kind of like if your car looks cool but all the tires are flat, its still ok.:D
 
#347
pkstone said:
Would it be asking too much for moderators to change inflammatory thread titles like this in the future? Asking "Why the hate" for this or that only seems to create hate and defensiveness that really isn't there in the first place.
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This thread was started as a reaction to the hate. There's a long history of it here, much of it well before your time on TB, and a bit of it deleted at this point. With the current tone of the forum, you'd never guess all of the hate that existed for extended range basses either. But it was there for years.

And you can't "create hate" by asking why people hate on something.
 
#349
There will always be haters. Best way to handle them is to ignore them - who cares what some unknown and even anonymous people think about my lined fretless bass?

I have both lined and unlined and love the look of an unlined fretboard. I do play better with the help of some lines though. :)
 
#350
Bryan R. Tyler said:
This thread was started as a reaction to the hate. There's a long history of it here, much of it well before your time on TB, and a bit of it deleted at this point. With the current tone of the forum, you'd never guess all of the hate that existed for extended range basses either. But it was there for years.
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I'll have to take your word for that, then. I haven't seen it in my couple of years here. I have seen a great deal of defensiveness whenever a "hate" thread comes up, though.

And you can't "create hate" by asking why people hate on something.
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Sure you can. Calling someone a "hater" stirs up all kinds of negative emotions, on both ends of the conversation. Loaded language hurts in both directions.
 
#351
FretlessMainly said:
3. 99% of the lined basses I've seen or played have the side dots "off-pitch;" in other words, where the dots would be on a fretted bass. This requires twice as many decisions to be made. Locate the side dot, then figure out how far away from the side dot the proper pitch is located.
Click to expand...

This, IMO, is the major drawback of the mass produced, factory fretless bass; or any fretless built on a fretted platform. I understand it's cost effective for the manufacturer to pull a few neck/FB assemblies and just fill the fret slots, but still.

That being said, I have two defrets which I play occasionally. I've found black dots, a la sharpie, to be helpful in drawing my eyes away from the factory markers.
 
#352
Tampabass said:
Another irrelevant question:
Why all the "hate" for people who prefer unlined fretless and might want to share their reasons for their preference?
Discussion, or even arguing in favor of one preference over another, doesn't equal "hate."
Click to expand...

Because Jaco didn't use them. Duh. ;)

I'm not seeing any "hate" for lines, though plenty of justification on why unlined basses should be avoided at all costs. :eyebrow:
 
#354
bucephylus said:
The dot is intended to indicate positions, not fingering targets; a distinction not shared by all players.
Click to expand...

Understood, but it results in one unified decision rather than two separate decisions in my mind. In lower positions on FL, the proper pitch is very close to centering the finger on the side dot, but as one moves up the neck, the difference between half-steps becomes smaller relative to the width of your finger pad, and an awareness of this allows me to make one descision rather than two.
 
#358
I find playing with lines a lot harder than without because they are visually distracting. If you're the other way around and love lines on your fingerboard far be it from me to give a crap. Just play in tune and stay in the pocket, nothing else matters much.
 

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