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Double Bass Wilson K4
- Thread starter flatback
- Start date
Piro,
No I don't have one I never wanted to drill holes in my bridge, makes me very nervous.
I heard George Mraz play with one when he came to St. Louis with Tommy Flanagan, he sounded wonderful cause he's George Mraz, not sure that
the pickup added anything. Just my take.
No I don't have one I never wanted to drill holes in my bridge, makes me very nervous.
I heard George Mraz play with one when he came to St. Louis with Tommy Flanagan, he sounded wonderful cause he's George Mraz, not sure that
the pickup added anything. Just my take.
What makes me interested in the K4, is that although I know a lot of people hate multi pickup configurations because they can "phase",in my experience, especially in blending two separate Yamahiko pickups thru the 2 channels of the Felix, it is more about getting the blend ratio right. If you just bind the two together (Underwood, Yama,etc) then the ratio of one to the other is totally random and uncontrolled, but if you separate them and blend with a different ratio (based on your ear and bass etc) a wide range of tone and width and open/directness is available just in that narrow parameter.
The Wilson K4 has 4 pickups that can be individually adjusted in the bridge for that very purpose. Also, while the directions say to drill the holes 9mm from each string, there is no reason to be bound by that. Just the combination of simple adjustment for blend (twisting the pickups in the bridge) and the simplicity of the tube preamp/piezo thing makes it interesting. I played last night with the two Yamahiko pickups bridged and got a great sound. When I use them individually they have distinct characteristics (the G side has the even thump while the E side has the bass and treble...on my bass) and when I have blended them in the Felix they sound great 70/30 one way or the other depending.
THe K4 design could be a really effective way to balance the signal from each pickup (by changing the aim of the piezo element.) When I owned a K4 the last time it was way back before I even know about Impedance. The sound I got was thin and ugly. I think it deserves another go round...
The Wilson K4 has 4 pickups that can be individually adjusted in the bridge for that very purpose. Also, while the directions say to drill the holes 9mm from each string, there is no reason to be bound by that. Just the combination of simple adjustment for blend (twisting the pickups in the bridge) and the simplicity of the tube preamp/piezo thing makes it interesting. I played last night with the two Yamahiko pickups bridged and got a great sound. When I use them individually they have distinct characteristics (the G side has the even thump while the E side has the bass and treble...on my bass) and when I have blended them in the Felix they sound great 70/30 one way or the other depending.
THe K4 design could be a really effective way to balance the signal from each pickup (by changing the aim of the piezo element.) When I owned a K4 the last time it was way back before I even know about Impedance. The sound I got was thin and ugly. I think it deserves another go round...
@flatback Or, you could get a second Felix, have both modded with variable phase controls, and have a separate volume, tone, and phase control for each string! 
(Didn't NHØP have something akin to the 70's version of that in his briefcase?)
(Didn't NHØP have something akin to the 70's version of that in his briefcase?)uh...hmmm...i get your point....in other words the kool-aid's effects have caused me to walk right off the edge of the cliff and in fact that whistling sound I hear isn't the phase differential in my pickups but the sound of my psyche plummeting toward oblivion?...yes I know I said it you didn't...
Yeah; I thought I heard you say you were done with messing around with gear since you got on the Sarno train?
not until I can figure out how to incorporate a Nixie Tube VU meter into my freakstack
I don't hate the idea of multiple piezo sensors, I just freak out when we start talking about putting 4 holes in my Aubert flame maple bridge that's been aging for years on my bass. Not something I'm likely to do.
My take is that you would do better with the Yamahiko, if you're really getting the sound you're after, and apparently you are. I know guys in town who have a Wilson 4 element on their second bass for loud gigs
and outdoor concerts.
My take is that you would do better with the Yamahiko, if you're really getting the sound you're after, and apparently you are. I know guys in town who have a Wilson 4 element on their second bass for loud gigs
and outdoor concerts.
I have the Wilson K4 on my old EUB.
I originally mounted it as recommended (under each string). But after getting the Yamahiko for my double bass, I got the crazy idea of putting the K4 sensors in the same places as the yama.
So I drilled a hole in each leg of the bridge and put a pair of sensors into each hole (one from front and one from back). It now works more like a 2 sensor device.
The change in sensor position on the EUB resulted in the tone shifting towards woodiness and away from stringiness. not sure if that effect would translate directly to the DB.
I originally mounted it as recommended (under each string). But after getting the Yamahiko for my double bass, I got the crazy idea of putting the K4 sensors in the same places as the yama.
So I drilled a hole in each leg of the bridge and put a pair of sensors into each hole (one from front and one from back). It now works more like a 2 sensor device.
The change in sensor position on the EUB resulted in the tone shifting towards woodiness and away from stringiness. not sure if that effect would translate directly to the DB.
Wasn't there a K1 version too? Pretty sure I heard it 20 years ago in a church in Amsterdam and it sounded glorious.
Generally the more sensors at different places the better.
But connecting piezos without an individual impedance buffer is not good. The sound suffers a lot because the piezos, which are not only sensors but also actors, work against each other. A very high input impedance might help a bit but is not optimal.
Blending (and optionally phase reverse one of two) can help to make the sound better.
You don’t need two Felix, a simple impedance buffer for each string does the job. For blending use either pots at the output (and a resistor in-line in front for safety, but this is usually part of the impedance buffer) or just connect the outputs together (using a safety resistor for each output).
But connecting piezos without an individual impedance buffer is not good. The sound suffers a lot because the piezos, which are not only sensors but also actors, work against each other. A very high input impedance might help a bit but is not optimal.
Blending (and optionally phase reverse one of two) can help to make the sound better.
You don’t need two Felix, a simple impedance buffer for each string does the job. For blending use either pots at the output (and a resistor in-line in front for safety, but this is usually part of the impedance buffer) or just connect the outputs together (using a safety resistor for each output).
This is really smart. I think I like the FC not because of the design (although I think it's convenient) but because of where it sits on the bridge. Like the Yama it was apparently modeled after, it sits in that "mama bear" spot on the bridge. Too high=too bright, too low=too dark, right in the middle splits the difference.
Makes me happy to know this is still out there in case some miracle happens and I end up with a bass with a solid bridge and a "tilt the fingerboard" mechanism to adjust string height instead of bridge adjusters.
Maple, my man. See that is the kind of creative thinking that I am talking about. I was thinking spread out along the back side of the bridge above the wings but I like the way you think. I listened to the Chris Doky videos of the Wilson and they sound pretty good.
I was an endorser for Wilson as well as Barbara. I loved both but as Chris mentioned--I eventually got away from that "close to the string" thing. It sounded and functioned great, but when I heard the FC---I thought that it retained a lot of what I dug about the Wilson, but had more of "my bass" sound.And the Yamahiko was a step up from there. When I decided to try the Yamahiko--no one was using it. He wouldn't give me any discount---I guess I was used to endorser discounts. I think that every US sale in the past 4 years have been directly or indirectly connected to me. He actually was a bit rude and curt toward me. Oh well.
He also endorsed the DPA 4099B and TC Electronics Amps at one time. One thing I do know is he sounds wonderful on anything he plays. So both Chris Van Doky and George Mraz sound great using a Wilson, me not so much.
Well I certainly bought the Yama after you bought one Mike ( although I think I even have an earlier thread about them here... Ive been aware and interested for a long time... since a certain Eddie Gomez CD where it didn't sound half bad... but my new interest in the k4 is both because of the MAS18 and the Sarno V8. Working with them and the two Yama’s makes me want to revisit ( also maybe 20 mm from the strings...)
Kiyohiko is a super nice cat though... there is a language thing... he HAS made a pole reversed Yama that I want to try with the standard one....
Kiyohiko is a super nice cat though... there is a language thing... he HAS made a pole reversed Yama that I want to try with the standard one....
[QUOTE="
Makes me happy to know this is still out there in case some miracle happens and I end up with a bass with a solid bridge and a "tilt the fingerboard" mechanism to adjust string height instead of bridge adjusters.[/QUOTE]
A friend of mine who had Jed Kriegel make him a beautiful 7/8 bass had a Gage Lifeline on a fixed bridge. It was really cool he had cut just one leg and pegged it with a steel dowel with just enough space for the lifeline. No adjusters and the lifeline with wood on both sides. It was a great solution I thought...
I have a line on a K4 looking forward to trying it out.
Makes me happy to know this is still out there in case some miracle happens and I end up with a bass with a solid bridge and a "tilt the fingerboard" mechanism to adjust string height instead of bridge adjusters.[/QUOTE]
A friend of mine who had Jed Kriegel make him a beautiful 7/8 bass had a Gage Lifeline on a fixed bridge. It was really cool he had cut just one leg and pegged it with a steel dowel with just enough space for the lifeline. No adjusters and the lifeline with wood on both sides. It was a great solution I thought...
I have a line on a K4 looking forward to trying it out.
That's great, if I spent the money on a tilt fingerboard which I love,I played on a Nick Lloyd bass recently that had one, I'm not sure I put a "life line implant" into the bridge. 
