Double Bass Wilson K4

[dperrott]

I have the Wilson K4 after wanting one for a long time. I like it, I changed from a full circle. I found the Wilson to be more natural sounding on my bass. The full circle does sound more "woody" but I think that was because it accented the attack more than the ring of the note. The wilson seems to be truer to the attack and ring of my bass. I don't have any phasing problems. You could place it in different spots. You just have to plug up the holes if you need to

 

[Ric Vice]

I know that Tom Kennedy from St. Louis, someone who I known for a long time, used the Wilson because he felt that it tracked the blazingly fast passages he's capable of, better than the other pickups at the time

which included the Underwood, BP-100, and the original Schertler Stat B. Later on, however, I think Tom went with a K&K Bassmax. I've heard George Mraz sound brilliant playing through one with Tommy Tommy Flanagan,

but then it was "George Mraz". I think players tend to go in on one of two distinct paths

one being discreet piezo's like the Wilson, Full Circle, Yamahiko, or the DPA, Remic, Nadine, Xlson as the second group, with the Ehrlund and Ischell, falling somewhere in the middle between the two. Just an observation, it's all good.

 

[flatback]

My Daughter broke her leg again, so my interest in a W4 is set back several months. All good, I'm pretty set, so's her leg...

 

[flatback]

So I procured a Wilson K 4 recently and installed it. I suppose if I had a very special bridge I wouldn’t have done it but I’m game for gig tone and I wanted to find out if the Wilson I remember would be the same as running it thru a fine tube preamp with impedance matching and tube eq plus the very fine modern speakers. I had a GK 150MB the last time I had a Wilson and it was a pretty brittle sound as I remember. I had this idea that the Wilson and Yama were prolly using the same (or really similar) high industrial piezos and that a Wilson thru my rig would prolly sound like a more direct And quicker Yama. Sure enough the piezo part sounds nearly identical in terms of timbre but placement makes a huge difference. The Wilson at first sounded like what everybody hates, super middy too close to the strings etc, but within a few minutes I was able to dial in an excellent tone... still picking up the front of the bridge but warm and really good. Boy does it track fast, what I really wanted it for was to play bebop lines that don’t get muddled together. It drives me nuts and causes me so much tension when my fingers are faster then the sound reaching my ears and no matter how clean you play those melodies sound like a traffic jam. Also my experience in clubs and gigs is that there always seems to be enough bass in a room, it is always the clarity that is missing. Well the Wilson really solves that problem. You can play fast and detailed and hear it all instantly. I went back and forth with the Yama and for overall well balanced sound the Yama is the bomb, but the clarity of the Wilson and the punch is really cool. I have this theory about piezo distortion being a lot of what we hate in the sound ( it is the sound of overplaying a piezo) and the Wilson kind of proves it... if you overplay it the sound gets wonky but stay in the zone and it sounds excellent. You can see why finesse players like Mraz and NHOP and Doky used it , pretty touch sensitive. The other thing I noticed about piezo distortion is that arco isn’t really affected by it ( I think it is a percussive pizz distortion) and sure enough arco sounds great with the Wilson.
Played a duo in a loud restaurant on mon night and really noticed how articulate this pickup and placement is. Really works with the V8 but sounded way more piezoy straight into the Felix. The Wilson K4 likes tubes.
One other interesting feature the way each pickup hands off to the next as you go down the strings is super dimensional and non phasing, the string you are playing drives that pickup so much more then the others that it seems to work really well with one per string... as though there is a volume wave of sensitivity for each string with the other pickups naturally taking a back seat to the one being played. Very nice.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I got a K4 because the bass I bought already was drilled for it and I figured I might as well try one. I didn't think I was going to like the stringy, fretless bass guitar-like sound I expected, and I was not surprised when, unfortunately, that is just what I got. I tried using it a number of times on gigs, but after one tune, I just couldn't take it.

I thought about drilling into the bridge leg and trying it K1 style, but didn't and I sold it to a TB'er.

 

[Ric Vice]

So I procured a Wilson K 4 recently and installed it. I suppose if I had a very special bridge I wouldn’t have done it but I’m game for gig tone and I wanted to find out if the Wilson I remember would be the same as running it thru a fine tube preamp with impedance matching and tube eq plus the very fine modern speakers................... I went back and forth with the Yama and for overall well balanced sound the Yama is the bomb, but the clarity of the Wilson and the punch is really cool. I have this theory about piezo distortion being a lot of what we hate in the sound ( it is the sound of overplaying a piezo) and the Wilson kind of proves it... if you overplay it the sound gets wonky but stay in the zone and it sounds excellent. You can see why finesse players like Mraz and NHOP and Doky used it , pretty touch sensitive. The other thing I noticed about piezo distortion is that arco isn’t really affected by it ( I think it is a percussive pizz distortion) and sure enough arco sounds great with the Wilson.
Played a duo in a loud restaurant on mon night and really noticed how articulate this pickup and placement is. Really works with the V8 but sounded way more piezoy straight into the Felix.

I once heard George Mraz playing with Tommy Flanagan, here at Washington University's concert hall on their 560 Campus. He was using a Wilson, and probably a Gallien Krueger 200MB (I don't think that the MBS/MBE were in production quite yet)

It sounded phenominal, but it was freekin' George Mraz. Now when he played with the bow you really heard the piezo quack through the 200MB. So, it's the Octal Tubes and impedance loading that are transforming the Wilson. Doky did recently use

a DPA 4099B and I think (don't quote me on this) either a Yamahiko or Fishman. You're a brave man indeed to use that tap to drill holes into your bridge and seat the Wilsons 4 elements. Something, I'm never going to do, but kudos to you.

 

[Ric Vice]

I got a K4 because the bass I bought already was drilled for it and I figured I might as well try one. I didn't think I was going to like the stringy, fretless bass guitar-like sound I expected, and I was not surprised when, unfortunately, that is just what I got. I tried using it a number of times on gigs, but after one tune, I just couldn't take it.

I thought about drilling into the bridge leg and trying it K1 style, but didn't and I sold it to a TB'er.

My sentiments excatly, my friend Willem Von Humbracth has on one his second bass. Just not my cup of tea. I like my bridge, as a mater of fact, I'd love to have a bass where you adjust the neck to

get the string heights vs using adjusters. I played on one of Nick Lloyd's basses last summer that had that feature, it's really nice.

 

[flatback]

I have that feature on my Contrabassetto and I don’t think modern jazz basses should be made without it. It allows you to set the TENSION as well as the height... you can put the strings where they sound and feel good and then raise the fingerboard up underneath to your desired string height.
Yeah the Wilson is not gunna be a “ hey I think I’ll try that this week kind of pickup. Gotta say it sure shines a nice light on the Yama double pickup

 

[flatback]

I realize I’m prolly out here on my own with the Wilson but I’m digging it. It IS more middy but the tube preamp and MAS speaker compensate nicely and the truth is once you get to a gig with all the other noises the string forward thing becomes clarity and fast response and ass kicking rhythmic punch. I have only played duos so far but I’m not at all unhappy. Went back and forth between the Yama and K4 last night and the Yama is really such a great pickup but I kept coming back to the K4 for the speed and kick. At home I recorded some blending it with the Remic and that combo sounded great, really better in fact then the Yama/Remic blend because the Yama duplicates so much of what the Remic is picking up. With the K4 and a mic seems like a killing combo

 

[flatback]

Yeah and I’m totally into the steam punk Franken/cybor non traditional rings on all fingers look of this pickup out there at the end of the bridge. My ridiculously hip 11 year old daughter digs it too “ Fluck tradition” she says, “ your bridge has bling, baby”

 

[flatback]

Ya know I can see if you are a doubler or traditionalist how this pickup would just not appeal at all, but to someone like me who only plays upright, this pickup offers a whole lot of speed and definition. The compromise is of course that sound that happens the moment someone heavy handed like me over plays the pickup, sounds like a spanked fretless, but tuning my hands down to the pickups sensitivity range opens up a clarity and speed of articulation that i have not had before. My bass is set up for it too, not low action but comfortable. But you can play lines that you would switch to electric for and man is it fun. It is not really (on a carved acoustic instrument) the worst of what you remember about string /bridge pickups, thru a nice preamp, certainly more in the direct direction but what you get in the bargain is totally sick instant percussive attack and speed. I can so see playing this pickup with a Mic blend as a regular thing, especially if the mic was always FOH.

 

[Wasnex]

Wasn't there a K1 version too? Pretty sure I heard it 20 years ago in a church in Amsterdam and it sounded glorious.

The website currently shows K1-K6
Double Bass – Wilson-Pickups

 

[Ric Vice]

If I were to get a Wilson K4 (which I wouldn't ) I'd likely have a luthier who had installed one previously do the installation, cause their tricky, unless your skills at wood working are decent. I've seen many a ruined bridge

from folks who tried to install a Wilson by themselves, who had little or no experience with wood working, which Piro obviously has.

 

[flatback]

It really isn’t hard. You need a drill press. My friend John N has a cabinet shop. An hours conversation and about two minutes of drilling ( did it myself) gets you the holes which need to be bored just a bit wider with the supplied tool.... seems like it would be harder to mess it up then do it right. Maybe people use a hand drill and that I can see having some wobble and over bore.
Not for everyone for sure but I am definitely moving in the direction of Mic FOH and after that I want to hear quick. Lots of drive and punch with tthe K4 ...

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Not for everyone for sure but I am definitely moving in the direction of Mic FOH and after that I want to hear quick. Lots of drive and punch with tthe K4 ...

Where does the dual Yamahiko fit into the scheme, after all the trouble that went into making it happen?

 

[flatback]

The dual Yama is just the bomb. My no1 pickup. Will use for most gigs, best placement for a representation of the whole vibrating instrument plenty of everything. I think the Yama piezos are clearer and have more depth. And with the tube pre no need for a mic. The K4 is more in your face still has body but way more from the bridge. I have always wanted a pickup that could track as fast as the K4, but for all around sound and total modular variation the Dual Yama rocks it. But this is the K4 page so I am digging that here. I really like both for different things.
I was playing melodies with the pianist the other night and the K4 just put me in the front line as an equal, it felt good to be there without yanking the strings. Very Mraz... playing the K4 puts you in the Miroslav space in the music if you know what I mean.... forward and totally equal but not wanky. I like it.

 

[flatback]

I was thinking about explaining why the rabbit holes with these fancy multi pickups and the justification of it. ( aside from other mostly noble interests) it’s this: for 20 years I have been playing the bass at the vocal equivalent of screaming levels. I pull the strings way too hard which causes me to clamp down on my freer (im left handed but play a normal bass) left hand causing tension limiting the free flow of musical thoughts etc. I was taught to pull hard and get a big sound, and everybody was playing that way. But the cats Whose freedom and melodic and rhythmic inventiveness I am drawn to are also the cats who play in a conversational tone, finessing the tone over dynamic intensity. These cats always turn the pickup way up and play their walking low low wirh a tremendous dynamic reserve.
It is flicking hard to do. But way easier too once you train the tension out of your playing ( still working on that ).
This pickup (especially the K4) really caters to that kind of playing. Within its zone the K 4 sounds great but if you loose your dynamic thread line and go back to yankin on the strings it honks. One of the reason cats like Dave Holland have lifelong practice routines is to isolate and expand your dynamic and flow abilities which all involve tension reduction. This pickup kind of does that for your ears in terms of the speed of response and articulation and I’m digging that even though it has its constraints.

 

[Wasnex]

I was thinking about explaining why the rabbit holes with these fancy multi pickups and the justification of it. ( aside from other mostly noble interests) it’s this: for 20 years I have been playing the bass at the vocal equivalent of screaming levels. I pull the strings way too hard which causes me to clamp down on my freer (im left handed but play a normal bass) left hand causing tension limiting the free flow of musical thoughts etc. I was taught to pull hard and get a big sound, and everybody was playing that way. But the cats Whose freedom and melodic and rhythmic inventiveness I am drawn to are also the cats who play in a conversational tone, finessing the tone over dynamic intensity. These cats always turn the pickup way up and play their walking low low wirh a tremendous dynamic reserve.
It is flicking hard to do. But way easier too once you train the tension out of your playing ( still working on that ).
This pickup (especially the K4) really caters to that kind of playing. Within its zone the K 4 sounds great but if you loose your dynamic thread line and go back to yankin on the strings it honks. One of the reason cats like Dave Holland have lifelong practice routines is to isolate and expand your dynamic and flow abilities which all involve tension reduction. This pickup kind of does that for your ears in terms of the speed of response and articulation and I’m digging that even though it has its constraints.

Most people have the philosophy that you go for a big acoustic tone and this will produce the best amplified tone.

My job entailed playing pretty much exclusively with an amp. When I am playing in more of a classical style I use a much heavier hand as I turn the amp way down to blend with the ensemble.

When I am playing jazz, I like to turn up enough where I can focus more on finesse than raw power. The problem is the amp pumps the body of the bass which tends to destroy the nice stringy character many jazz players go for. I could see where the K4 might be beneficial as, based on your description, the K4 gets more of the string sound and less of the body sound.

 

[flatback]

Got to play a trio gig with this pickup.... it was killin. With the Tube pre and MAS 18 it was super nice to kick that hard and I only noticed the close to the strings thing once or twice during solos when I overplayed the strings but man for the rest of it I was super happy. I totally thought I was gunna go back to the Yama at some point and never did

 

[lurk]

Heard the wonderful bassist Gary Mazzarroppi last night. He's been using a Wilson since the 80s. He has a Fishman pro platinum between the pickup and the Aer amp he uses. For what he wants it's perfect. Very clean and clear and articulate. He plays with a very light and controlled touch. Harmonics speak beautifully. The sound is very warm and beautiful with a nice point to the note. For me it's a little colorless. I like more blood and guts in my sound, but he made some beautiful music.