I didn't like the concept of parallel stringers in the neck, I hope it will look good, but who knows
Looking good! Ive been wanting to try wedge stringers also. Wyn does them and it looks pretty good
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Looking good! Ive been wanting to try wedge stringers also. Wyn does them and it looks pretty good
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,013
- 1
- 31,725
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Thank you guys for the comments!
I looked at Wyn basses and that taper looks definitely good there. I guess they are tapering more than just one stringer, which would make it too complex of a job for me. I decided to not be doing several tapered pieces, but go just with the center part. This allows me to deal with only two tapered sides, the rest of the wood pieces are dimensioned square.
One of the things to consider when planning a taper is the width at the headstock and how much of each each stripe will be visible. I assume, for a good visual effect you want to have as much shoulder as you can at the zero fret.
I found it to be pretty easy to thin the middle stringer too far, as you need to introduce those nice flat sides, that are square to the tapering faces, and I actually planed around 5mm more off that I planned. This is to account for while attempting the next one and that's the reason the neck actually became a 5-piece glue up - I had to add some wood. But spending time on the taper is crucial, as any deviation will result in a gap, or causes the tappered end to get planed off more and more and you have to reshift stringer into the headstock. Or probably I just didn't figure out the best way to do it yet.
I looked at Wyn basses and that taper looks definitely good there. I guess they are tapering more than just one stringer, which would make it too complex of a job for me. I decided to not be doing several tapered pieces, but go just with the center part. This allows me to deal with only two tapered sides, the rest of the wood pieces are dimensioned square.
One of the things to consider when planning a taper is the width at the headstock and how much of each each stripe will be visible. I assume, for a good visual effect you want to have as much shoulder as you can at the zero fret.
I found it to be pretty easy to thin the middle stringer too far, as you need to introduce those nice flat sides, that are square to the tapering faces, and I actually planed around 5mm more off that I planned. This is to account for while attempting the next one and that's the reason the neck actually became a 5-piece glue up - I had to add some wood. But spending time on the taper is crucial, as any deviation will result in a gap, or causes the tappered end to get planed off more and more and you have to reshift stringer into the headstock. Or probably I just didn't figure out the best way to do it yet.
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I had a bit of a break in this build, waited for some stuff to arrive, had a few days off. But I see time is running and I have to go back on track to finish on time!
Spent some time on during the weekend working on router templates for the trusrod channel and the headstock. This is crazy, how much time it takes to make them right. But I managed to finally got the rod in and went deeper by 3mm to inlay the carbon fiber followed by a strip of Ash. The final depth was 12mm, which I figured should cover for the 1mm of carbon fiber TOW and resin, 2mm strip of Ash and 9mm of the trusrod. I plan the neck to be 15mm + fingerboard, so the carbon fiber will be inlayed pretty shallow from the back. Here are some pics:
The idea was to reroute the channel for the final 9mm depth after the epoxy cures, so that's next on the Todo list. What I've learned so far though is, the TOW gets pretty easy pushed up with the resin from under the wood strip and if you look closely at the second pic, you'll see some black fibers. I wonder if @Bruce Johnson would have some advice here for the future.. the fit of the wooden strip was pretty snug.
In the meantime, I finished the headstock template, and fitted in the machines to have a test fit:
And then traced it to the neck blank and drilled for tuner holes from front and then from the back to avoid tear out.
I like how the taper looks at the headstock. Although the front will be covered with a maple cap, it should look great from the back.
now, as I planned for a flat headstock without a scarf joint, I will trim the face, make the transition curve and attempt to steam bend the maple cap, so it can reproduce the curve from the headstock. I'm still figuring out the how, but I think it's doable. Do you have any experience with steam bending at home without big equipment?
Spent some time on during the weekend working on router templates for the trusrod channel and the headstock. This is crazy, how much time it takes to make them right. But I managed to finally got the rod in and went deeper by 3mm to inlay the carbon fiber followed by a strip of Ash. The final depth was 12mm, which I figured should cover for the 1mm of carbon fiber TOW and resin, 2mm strip of Ash and 9mm of the trusrod. I plan the neck to be 15mm + fingerboard, so the carbon fiber will be inlayed pretty shallow from the back. Here are some pics:
The idea was to reroute the channel for the final 9mm depth after the epoxy cures, so that's next on the Todo list. What I've learned so far though is, the TOW gets pretty easy pushed up with the resin from under the wood strip and if you look closely at the second pic, you'll see some black fibers. I wonder if @Bruce Johnson would have some advice here for the future.. the fit of the wooden strip was pretty snug.
In the meantime, I finished the headstock template, and fitted in the machines to have a test fit:
And then traced it to the neck blank and drilled for tuner holes from front and then from the back to avoid tear out.
I like how the taper looks at the headstock. Although the front will be covered with a maple cap, it should look great from the back.
now, as I planned for a flat headstock without a scarf joint, I will trim the face, make the transition curve and attempt to steam bend the maple cap, so it can reproduce the curve from the headstock. I'm still figuring out the how, but I think it's doable. Do you have any experience with steam bending at home without big equipment?
Yes, I've had that same problem with the carbon fiber TOW oozing up out of place. If the epoxy is getting hydraulically squeezed out of an area, it will sometimes carry the TOW with it. Annoying and messy to push it back down in.
The way I minimize that happening is to pour in just a small amount of epoxy into the slot, maybe 1/8" deep. Lay in the TOW strands and use a stick or cleanable tool to push the TOW down fully into the epoxy. Then lay in the other components, like your wood filler strip, and push it down gently. Pour in a little more epoxy. Basically, pour in the epoxy in several layers; don't pour it all in at once.
The way I minimize that happening is to pour in just a small amount of epoxy into the slot, maybe 1/8" deep. Lay in the TOW strands and use a stick or cleanable tool to push the TOW down fully into the epoxy. Then lay in the other components, like your wood filler strip, and push it down gently. Pour in a little more epoxy. Basically, pour in the epoxy in several layers; don't pour it all in at once.
Might even work a little better if the wood is soaked for a while prior to microwaving.
Wedged stringers look aesthetically better. If I don't used one piece for a neck I have always wedged the layers to give proportionate widths through the whole neck from the bottom of the body to the headstock, like these.Looking good! Ive been wanting to try wedge stringers also. Wyn does them and it looks pretty good
View attachment 2887760
The usual trick for cutting thin wedge stringers is to glue them onto the center lam strip while they are still some larger thickness. Then clamp the whole laminate in a router fixture to trim the stringers to a wedge.
Thank you very much for all the tips and tricks!
@postalflunkie, thats a great trick... I was thinking how to build a steamer box, but I think of using the Chinese steamer basket, as I don't own a microwave. Maybe it will do the trick. I guess I should build some clamping block.
@Bruce Johnson, I think its a great idea to glue in the TOW into a very thin epoxy bed and pure some more in after laying in the wood stripe. Will try it out next time!
@Slidlow, I like how it came out in your build! I guess the outer stripes being of equal width (or with minimal taper) make it look great!
@postalflunkie, thats a great trick... I was thinking how to build a steamer box, but I think of using the Chinese steamer basket, as I don't own a microwave. Maybe it will do the trick. I guess I should build some clamping block.
@Bruce Johnson, I think its a great idea to glue in the TOW into a very thin epoxy bed and pure some more in after laying in the wood stripe. Will try it out next time!
@Slidlow, I like how it came out in your build! I guess the outer stripes being of equal width (or with minimal taper) make it look great!
I did some work on the neck today, routed out the trusrod channel to final depth, went pretty well, although I could make more effort marking the template location while routing previously. It is pretty tricky to realign the template. I should probably draw on some markers.
Then I did my first routing of the headstock shape. I have to say, that African mahogany routes pretty well, no chips or tear out at all, came out very clean:
What I missed though is, that the router tilted slightly bitting in one side, which.. created a deeper area. I'm currently rethinking if I should patch it, leave it and reshape the headstock a bit, or make it proper, cutting of a piece to create a flat surface, glue another piece of walnut on and reshape again.
It just doesn't look right, especially with the tuners on. It's about sharing errors and learning to make things right again, right? Have to sleep on it, before moving on
Then I did my first routing of the headstock shape. I have to say, that African mahogany routes pretty well, no chips or tear out at all, came out very clean:
What I missed though is, that the router tilted slightly bitting in one side, which.. created a deeper area. I'm currently rethinking if I should patch it, leave it and reshape the headstock a bit, or make it proper, cutting of a piece to create a flat surface, glue another piece of walnut on and reshape again.
It just doesn't look right, especially with the tuners on. It's about sharing errors and learning to make things right again, right?
Have to sleep on it, before moving on Attachments
I, for one, appreciate everyone sharing errors and fixes, to me that's more interesting than seeing things that go perfectly.
I got it figured out, what happened is not that I tilted my router, actually when I looked at the piece that I cut out with the jig saw, I've noticed, that the blade got skewed while I was cutting out the curve. I probably should have done some relieve cuts to avoid it, which I didn't. Anyway, I decided to plane down that surface to have a nice square side and found a pretty good match out of the headstock scrap. Checked everything for fit and square and glued it on.
Clamping this down is actually pretty tricky due to all the curves, but it holds what I found important here, was:
1. to take as little off as possible while flattening the surface, so I don't reach the tuner hole. It would be a nightmare to redrilled this.
2. To go with a long piece and not a small patch, to avoid visible glue lines. Hiding them in the endgrain is easier.
3. To match the grain direction and color - if possible both. The patch will be only visible from the back, but it should reflect light the same way to look the best.
Next is reshaping the headstock when it dries.
Clamping this down is actually pretty tricky due to all the curves, but it holds
what I found important here, was:1. to take as little off as possible while flattening the surface, so I don't reach the tuner hole. It would be a nightmare to redrilled this.
2. To go with a long piece and not a small patch, to avoid visible glue lines. Hiding them in the endgrain is easier.
3. To match the grain direction and color - if possible both. The patch will be only visible from the back, but it should reflect light the same way to look the best.
Next is reshaping the headstock when it dries.
Good save!I got it figured out, what happened is not that I tilted my router, actually when I looked at the piece that I cut out with the jig saw, I've noticed, that the blade got skewed while I was cutting out the curve. I probably should have done some relieve cuts to avoid it, which I didn't. Anyway, I decided to plane down that surface to have a nice square side and found a pretty good match out of the headstock scrap. Checked everything for fit and square and glued it on.
View attachment 2922688
View attachment 2922689
View attachment 2922691
View attachment 2922692
View attachment 2922693
Clamping this down is actually pretty tricky due to all the curves, but it holds
1. to take as little off as possible while flattening the surface, so I don't reach the tuner hole. It would be a nightmare to redrilled this.
2. To go with a long piece and not a small patch, to avoid visible glue lines. Hiding them in the endgrain is easier.
3. To match the grain direction and color - if possible both. The patch will be only visible from the back, but it should reflect light the same way to look the best.
Next is reshaping the headstock when it dries.
The saving of the headstock went pretty well, it was actually a pretty easy fix. Once the glue dried, I trimmed the excess wood and rerouted the shape. I did correct it a bit, adding some more shoulder to the top. The tuners fit in well and the fix blends in fairly well (the grain pattern is pretty wild and you can tell it is different pieces anyway). It shouldn't be much visible in the final bass.
Now I went on to cutting the headstock to depth. I measure the thickness to 12mm, so I could have around 13-13.5mm after flattening it and adding the maple cap. This time I knew better what I was doing with the Japanese saws and the cut went pretty well. I scored the headstock around and It was easy to cut the rest, having that grooves on the sides. I know, it still looks scary, right?
Then I went on with planing it down, shaping the transition and sanding it to shape. Sanding Bodo is as tricky as planing Bodo. I noticed it is very easy to sand in a dip, depending on the grain in a particular spot. The best so far was approaching it with chisels. Also sanding the neck sides left a lot of feathered tear-outs, and I think I will chisel out the final neck shape instead of using other tools. Will see how it takes a Shinto rasp though.
I did some measuring and trimmed of the neck end to size, then rechecked with the plans. I'm planning to mount set=in the neck deep into the body and hide the heel under the maple cup. It will not be replaceable but on the other hand, who would replace a neck on a neck through or set in any way..
By the way,
the bridge is an ETS bridge with a 19mm spacing, which I got from Maruszczyk Basses. He sells them a few Euro cheaper, probably due to the branding, which I don't mind at all. Was a free shipping in EU also. It's a nice and heavy piece of gear. Here is a closeup:
I haven't really decided on the pickups yet, which... depend on the fretboard. I planned to use a piece of walnut but checked the Janka scale and walnut looks to be too soft for that, unless it would be a fretless with an epoxy coat. And that would be option number 1. For that, I would then rather go with a single pickup under the wooden cover. I was going fretted, I should replace the fretboard, with something other and I don't think I have a suitable piece of wood at hand. I would then rather mount two humbucking pickups with a preamp into the bass. So I'm currently spinning my head around those ideas. Anyway, here is the piece of walnut fretboard over the neck and the maple cup for the headstock, both treated with a bit of naphtha to see the figure and colour better:
Fretless or not, I moved on to the steam bending of the maple cap to follow the headstock curve. All in all, the process was a disaster so far, but nothing that can be fixed I thinned a piece of the maple cup from 6mm to 3mm at the end that I was going to bend, then placed it in the improvised steam box for about an hour.
If it looks familiar, it is a well known Chinese design It actually got pretty flexible, but still, the piece cracked while bending - that's the bad part. The bad news also is, I didn't have enough of it left to repeat the process on another part. What I think is worth mentioning, and I actually paid attention to it later on is, the maple was quartersawn. A flatsawn piece would probably bend much more easily. I decided to go with it anyway and I believe I can fit the broken piece in without any noticeable gap. So fixing errors continues. Here is where I am right now:
So the piece actually does follow the curve pretty well, there are no gaps between the wood, it is thicker on the rest of the headstock and will need some planing down once dry. Tomorrow I will attempt to fix and glue in the broken off piece. I might decide to trim and fit them with a new crisp line, or just slide them back together and mask any cavities with wood filler or dust and epoxy. I have to see how it fits first. That's what you get with a Walnut Karma Bass
I bet you wanna see the broken off piece too, yeah I knew it, here it is :
Now I went on to cutting the headstock to depth. I measure the thickness to 12mm, so I could have around 13-13.5mm after flattening it and adding the maple cap. This time I knew better what I was doing with the Japanese saws and the cut went pretty well. I scored the headstock around and It was easy to cut the rest, having that grooves on the sides. I know, it still looks scary, right?
Then I went on with planing it down, shaping the transition and sanding it to shape. Sanding Bodo is as tricky as planing Bodo. I noticed it is very easy to sand in a dip, depending on the grain in a particular spot. The best so far was approaching it with chisels. Also sanding the neck sides left a lot of feathered tear-outs, and I think I will chisel out the final neck shape instead of using other tools. Will see how it takes a Shinto rasp though.
I did some measuring and trimmed of the neck end to size, then rechecked with the plans. I'm planning to mount set=in the neck deep into the body and hide the heel under the maple cup. It will not be replaceable but on the other hand, who would replace a neck on a neck through or set in any way..
By the way,
the bridge is an ETS bridge with a 19mm spacing, which I got from Maruszczyk Basses. He sells them a few Euro cheaper, probably due to the branding, which I don't mind at all. Was a free shipping in EU also. It's a nice and heavy piece of gear. Here is a closeup:
I haven't really decided on the pickups yet, which... depend on the fretboard. I planned to use a piece of walnut but checked the Janka scale and walnut looks to be too soft for that, unless it would be a fretless with an epoxy coat. And that would be option number 1. For that, I would then rather go with a single pickup under the wooden cover. I was going fretted, I should replace the fretboard, with something other and I don't think I have a suitable piece of wood at hand. I would then rather mount two humbucking pickups with a preamp into the bass. So I'm currently spinning my head around those ideas. Anyway, here is the piece of walnut fretboard over the neck and the maple cup for the headstock, both treated with a bit of naphtha to see the figure and colour better:
Fretless or not, I moved on to the steam bending of the maple cap to follow the headstock curve. All in all, the process was a disaster so far, but nothing that can be fixed
I thinned a piece of the maple cup from 6mm to 3mm at the end that I was going to bend, then placed it in the improvised steam box for about an hour. If it looks familiar, it is a well known Chinese design
It actually got pretty flexible, but still, the piece cracked while bending - that's the bad part. The bad news also is, I didn't have enough of it left to repeat the process on another part. What I think is worth mentioning, and I actually paid attention to it later on is, the maple was quartersawn. A flatsawn piece would probably bend much more easily. I decided to go with it anyway and I believe I can fit the broken piece in without any noticeable gap. So fixing errors continues. Here is where I am right now:So the piece actually does follow the curve pretty well, there are no gaps between the wood, it is thicker on the rest of the headstock and will need some planing down once dry. Tomorrow I will attempt to fix and glue in the broken off piece. I might decide to trim and fit them with a new crisp line, or just slide them back together and mask any cavities with wood filler or dust and epoxy. I have to see how it fits first. That's what you get with a Walnut Karma Bass
I bet you wanna see the broken off piece too, yeah I knew it, here it is :
Trials and tribulations.....Very impressed with your problem solving skills....The saving of the headstock went pretty well, it was actually a pretty easy fix. Once the glue dried, I trimmed the excess wood and rerouted the shape. I did correct it a bit, adding some more shoulder to the top. The tuners fit in well and the fix blends in fairly well (the grain pattern is pretty wild and you can tell it is different pieces anyway). It shouldn't be much visible in the final bass.
View attachment 2928282
View attachment 2928283
View attachment 2928284
Now I went on to cutting the headstock to depth. I measure the thickness to 12mm, so I could have around 13-13.5mm after flattening it and adding the maple cap. This time I knew better what I was doing with the Japanese saws and the cut went pretty well. I scored the headstock around and It was easy to cut the rest, having that grooves on the sides. I know, it still looks scary, right?
View attachment 2928287
View attachment 2928288
Then I went on with planing it down, shaping the transition and sanding it to shape. Sanding Bodo is as tricky as planing Bodo. I noticed it is very easy to sand in a dip, depending on the grain in a particular spot. The best so far was approaching it with chisels. Also sanding the neck sides left a lot of feathered tear-outs, and I think I will chisel out the final neck shape instead of using other tools. Will see how it takes a Shinto rasp though.
View attachment 2928289
I did some measuring and trimmed of the neck end to size, then rechecked with the plans. I'm planning to mount set=in the neck deep into the body and hide the heel under the maple cup. It will not be replaceable but on the other hand, who would replace a neck on a neck through or set in any way..
View attachment 2928285
By the way,
the bridge is an ETS bridge with a 19mm spacing, which I got from Maruszczyk Basses. He sells them a few Euro cheaper, probably due to the branding, which I don't mind at all. Was a free shipping in EU also. It's a nice and heavy piece of gear. Here is a closeup:
View attachment 2928286
I haven't really decided on the pickups yet, which... depend on the fretboard. I planned to use a piece of walnut but checked the Janka scale and walnut looks to be too soft for that, unless it would be a fretless with an epoxy coat. And that would be option number 1. For that, I would then rather go with a single pickup under the wooden cover. I was going fretted, I should replace the fretboard, with something other and I don't think I have a suitable piece of wood at hand. I would then rather mount two humbucking pickups with a preamp into the bass. So I'm currently spinning my head around those ideas. Anyway, here is the piece of walnut fretboard over the neck and the maple cup for the headstock, both treated with a bit of naphtha to see the figure and colour better:
View attachment 2928290
Fretless or not, I moved on to the steam bending of the maple cap to follow the headstock curve. All in all, the process was a disaster so far, but nothing that can be fixed
View attachment 2928291
If it looks familiar, it is a well known Chinese design
View attachment 2928292
View attachment 2928293
View attachment 2928294
So the piece actually does follow the curve pretty well, there are no gaps between the wood, it is thicker on the rest of the headstock and will need some planing down once dry. Tomorrow I will attempt to fix and glue in the broken off piece. I might decide to trim and fit them with a new crisp line, or just slide them back together and mask any cavities with wood filler or dust and epoxy. I have to see how it fits first. That's what you get with a Walnut Karma Bass
I bet you wanna see the broken off piece too, yeah I knew it, here it is :
View attachment 2928295
