Wireless in ear rig question

[dk2429]

So I have a closed loop IEM system for my band. I just recently added a Sennheiser EW100 G4 wireless 935 mic to our rack.

The two antennas for the microphone receiver are mounted on the front of the rack (show in pics)

All three of the IEM’s go to an antenna combiner (Shure PA411) mounted on the rear of the rack, which is using a Shure UA8 antenna (also shown in pics)

The rack usually sits on stage with us next to the drummer, maybe 20-30ft max from us.

With the way this is setup, should this system reliably? It ran perfect before the mic. I’m kind of worried now that I added a wireless mic to the mix. Haven’t got to gig with it yet, which is why I’m asking if this is setup well to avoid interference/RF issues.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

What frequencies are the IEMS operating on and what frequency group is the wireless mic?
Being that close to the IEM transmitters can saturate the front end the mic receiver.
Fire up the IEM's and run a frequency scan on the wireless receiver and see what it picks for an open channel.

 

[Geri O]

It's not ideal, but I use a Sennheiser G4 IEM transmitter and a Sennheiser EW-D receiver in the same rack. The IEM antenna is on the front of the rack while the pair of receiver antennas (antennae?) are on the back.

Theoretically, this isn't the best idea, but I haven't had any problems between the two systems. Your situation may be different because of the multiple IEMs being transmitted. I'd try it (observing the frequency scans and good habits as Mike said) and see what happens. Set it up and home or your rehearsal space and try it before the gig. (I HATE surprises on gigs!....)

If it were my rig, I'd get the Sennheiser shark fin paddle antenna for the IEM combiner so it can me mounted to a mic stand and placed a few feet from the wireless mic receiver.

Good luck.

 

[dk2429]

What frequencies are the IEMS operating on and what frequency group is the wireless mic?
Being that close to the IEM transmitters can saturate the front end the mic receiver.
Fire up the IEM's and run a frequency scan on the wireless receiver and see what it picks for an open channel.

IEM’s operate on 470-512Mhz
Mic operates on 470-516Mhz

I have been using it at home with no issues. I usually scan/sync the IEM’s first, and then scan/sync the microphone.


Usually the IEM’s like to sync to anywhere between 482-502ish

The mic usually goes to around 470-480ish or 500-506

Sometimes I do see a small amount of RF input on the channel the mic receiver chooses. I just scroll through until I find one with zero RF signal then sync the transmitter

Like I said, works fine here at home. First show with it is on April 1, and I’m just a little anxious/nervous about rolling it up on stage and having issues.

Before the mic, all the IEM’s were on their own individual antennas and it was super super reliable and I don’t recall anyone ever having any issues no matter where we played or what city. And I don’t want the microphone to jeopardize that. I’ll go back to my wired 935 if I see any signs of performance loss

 

[dk2429]

It's not ideal, but I use a Sennheiser G4 IEM transmitter and a Sennheiser EW-D receiver in the same rack. The IEM antenna is on the front of the rack while the pair of receiver antennas (antennae?) are on the back.

Theoretically, this isn't the best idea, but I haven't had any problems between the two systems. Your situation may be different because of the multiple IEMs being transmitted. I'd try it (observing the frequency scans and good habits as Mike said) and see what happens. Set it up and home or your rehearsal space and try it before the gig. (I HATE surprises on gigs!....)

If it were my rig, I'd get the Sennheiser shark fin paddle antenna for the IEM combiner so it can me mounted to a mic stand and placed a few feet from the wireless mic receiver.

Good luck.

Yeah that’s what most seem to say..

But then, I message a local band that runs IEMS and two mics in their rig looking like this, and I’m told it works flawlessly

 

[dk2429]

What frequencies are the IEMS operating on and what frequency group is the wireless mic?
Being that close to the IEM transmitters can saturate the front end the mic receiver.
Fire up the IEM's and run a frequency scan on the wireless receiver and see what it picks for an open channel.

I can also say.. when I first tried to use it with the mic, after I scanned for a channel on the receiver and selected it, the mic receiver would clip on the AF and the RF and clip the hell out of the IEM’s and mic channel on the mixer. As soon as I’d sync the transmitter though, all went back to normal

I found out the squelch level on the mic receiver was set to low. I set it to high, and no longer have that problem.

Either way, that still didn’t make sense. The frequency the mic was on wasn’t even close to the frequencies the IEM’s were on.

 

[Geri O]

Yeah that’s what most seem to say..

But then, I message a local band that runs IEMS and two mics in their rig looking like this, and I’m told it works flawlessly

Well, like I said above, give it a try!

But I would (and as I own a dozen channels of rental IEM units so I always) try a new wireless arrangement at home to see how they play together.

 

[dk2429]

Well, like I said above, give it a try!

But I would (and as I own a dozen channels of rental IEM units so I always) try a new wireless arrangement at home to see how they play together.

Yeah for sure! Only way to truly know is to get some gigs under its belt

What do you mean by trying a different arrangement? Are you saying reconfiguring the wireless units in the rack?

 

[Wild_Bill_57]

3 things when putting IEM system and wireless instrument system in close proximity. One if possible get as much antenna separation as possible. Two set up IEM first and have it transmitting when scanning the instrument system. Three make sure the antennas are 90 degrees different in angle, or get as much vertical separation as possible to avoid as much lobe coupling as possible. YMMV

 

[micguy]

You’ve got a few units there, shouldn’t be too hard to get them coordinated. I’ve done coordination for a big church - 60 units on the big stage, 170 total - that can be a challenge.

Shure has online tools to help you pick a good frequency. Find your IEM system, type in where you are, it’ll give you a set of compatible freqs for that gear in your area. Tune everything to it’s own freq, all from that list.

Keep the mic’s receiving antennas some distance from the IEM’s transmitting antennas; you should be good.

 

[Geri O]

Yeah for sure! Only way to truly know is to get some gigs under its belt

What do you mean by trying a different arrangement? Are you saying reconfiguring the wireless units in the rack?

Yes, and for the most part, the units stay in 3 racks of 4 units. But occasionally, someone needs 6 units or some other swapping around. And on each and every rental, I’ll set up the needed configuration and make sure all units are working properly before they go out. It’s not a very big rental operation, but they still need to be working dependably for the clients.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

I can also say.. when I first tried to use it with the mic, after I scanned for a channel on the receiver and selected it, the mic receiver would clip on the AF and the RF and clip the hell out of the IEM’s and mic channel on the mixer. As soon as I’d sync the transmitter though, all went back to normal

I found out the squelch level on the mic receiver was set to low. I set it to high, and no longer have that problem.

Either way, that still didn’t make sense. The frequency the mic was on wasn’t even close to the frequencies the IEM’s were on.

The squelch level sets the RF sensitivity of the receiver to unmute and pass audio, the higher the level the shorter the range the mic will have, sounds like being set low was letting through RF noise on the frequency the receiver was set to, when you turned on the mic transmitter it's signal over road the background noise, keep in mind that noise is still there in the same space the mic is transmitting in.

As for the frequencies not being close, that does not show the whole picture, when multiple frequencies combine together in the air as they intermingle together they create harmonics and those harmonics can be at frequencies you are wanting to operate at, the more frequencies in operation the worse it can get.

Wireless equipment of the same brand and model have pre determined frequency groups and the frequencies in those groups are caculated to all work together, that does not take into account RF from TV, ect. in the area your are working in though.

All the major wireless manufactures have frequency finders using your zip code to help
choose a frequency range for your area, but that is only a starting point.

 

[dk2429]

Thank you all for your help! I’m going to give it a run at the first time out with it on April 1 and go from there

I really don’t “need” a wireless mic. Main reason I got it was for setup time (we’re usually involved in 10-15 mins change overs on most shows), and for the few songs that I do sit the guitar down and just work the mic. I have a 25’ XLR and a wired 935, and the XLR always seemed to get in the way of moving around stage. Plus I’m worried about pulling the XLR out of the splitter on accident.

 

[MLC_BassPlayer]

If it were my rig, I'd get the Sennheiser shark fin paddle antenna for the IEM combiner so it can me mounted to a mic stand and placed a few feet from the wireless mic receiver.

This.

My band has used the Sharkfin paddle antenna for years. It works really well. We still get interference sometimes from fluorescent lighting, but overall the comms have been great for over 10 years...

 

[dk2429]

It's not ideal, but I use a Sennheiser G4 IEM transmitter and a Sennheiser EW-D receiver in the same rack. The IEM antenna is on the front of the rack while the pair of receiver antennas (antennae?) are on the back.

Theoretically, this isn't the best idea, but I haven't had any problems between the two systems. Your situation may be different because of the multiple IEMs being transmitted. I'd try it (observing the frequency scans and good habits as Mike said) and see what happens. Set it up and home or your rehearsal space and try it before the gig. (I HATE surprises on gigs!....)

If it were my rig, I'd get the Sennheiser shark fin paddle antenna for the IEM combiner so it can me mounted to a mic stand and placed a few feet from the wireless mic receiver.

Good luck.

Somewhat unrelated question

How do you like the EW-D? I thought the G4 was Sennheiser’s bees knees wireless system. After I got it, I read how many prefer and use the EW-D.

Do you have any issues with latency in your IEM’s?

 

[Gizmot]

Although newer computers are better, all computers put out RF interference. Move the computer!

 

[Geri O]

Somewhat unrelated question

How do you like the EW-D? I thought the G4 was Sennheiser’s bees knees wireless system. After I got it, I read how many prefer and use the EW-D.

Do you have any issues with latency in your IEM’s?

I’ve not noticed any latency to speak of. Between the inherent latency of digital consoles, any onboard processing, Avioms, etc, there could be some somewhere, but I’ve not noticed it. And I’d like to think that I’m fairly sensitive to timing issues, that being part of my job and all….
I own the EW-D for my bass wireless and the G4 for my IEMs. I’ve not used the G4 as a wireless transmitter system, so I can’t comment on how those units would compare.
The EW-D replaced an almost-10 year-old Lectrosonics wireless rig. Between the transmitter and the receiver (bought separately), it sold for around $2200. Yikes, I know! But at the time, I wanted the very best wireless for my bass (and my ears were in a lot better shape!) and Lectro is known for bullet-proof industrial-strength RF, along with pristine audio quality.

The Lectro is starting to show a little road-weariness, so I started looking into a new unit, but I wasn’t going to spend that kind of money again (I don’t even know what that same or equivalent Lectro gear costs these days). At first, I was looking into Shure ULX-D or even Axient, but I asked my dear friend and tech director at my church, who is also a walking talking library of production knowledge and the latest gear. He very highly recommended the EW-D as the best deal for high-quality no-frills basic bass wireless.
And he was right. As best as my tired old ears can tell, it really is as good as what I was using. He listened to the bass when I played there with the EW-D and being used to the Lectro, he agreed that it was as good as or so ver close to the old unit. And the EW-D with the belt pack is $600 at Sweetwater. To me, that’s the best deal in wireless going right now.
So there ya go. Only one gripe and it’s with the EW-D beltpack. There’s only the power button, sync button and power light. No menus, no buttons, battery indicator. All adjustments are made via the Bluetooth app on the phone. The battery indicator is on the front of the receiver. So I’ve gotten used to the way that works.
I’m very happy with EW-D.

 

[dk2429]

Just wanted to make an update. First time out with the new mic/combiner yesterday

Had absolutely no issues. Even got into the audience a bit with the mic and had no issues with interference or dropouts on either the mic or IEM’s. Sounded great

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

I’ve not noticed any latency to speak of. Between the inherent latency of digital consoles, any onboard processing, Avioms, etc, there could be some somewhere, but I’ve not noticed it. And I’d like to think that I’m fairly sensitive to timing issues, that being part of my job and all….
I own the EW-D for my bass wireless and the G4 for my IEMs. I’ve not used the G4 as a wireless transmitter system, so I can’t comment on how those units would compare.
The EW-D replaced an almost-10 year-old Lectrosonics wireless rig. Between the transmitter and the receiver (bought separately), it sold for around $2200. Yikes, I know! But at the time, I wanted the very best wireless for my bass (and my ears were in a lot better shape!) and Lectro is known for bullet-proof industrial-strength RF, along with pristine audio quality.

The Lectro is starting to show a little road-weariness, so I started looking into a new unit, but I wasn’t going to spend that kind of money again (I don’t even know what that same or equivalent Lectro gear costs these days). At first, I was looking into Shure ULX-D or even Axient, but I asked my dear friend and tech director at my church, who is also a walking talking library of production knowledge and the latest gear. He very highly recommended the EW-D as the best deal for high-quality no-frills basic bass wireless.
And he was right. As best as my tired old ears can tell, it really is as good as what I was using. He listened to the bass when I played there with the EW-D and being used to the Lectro, he agreed that it was as good as or so ver close to the old unit. And the EW-D with the belt pack is $600 at Sweetwater. To me, that’s the best deal in wireless going right now.
So there ya go. Only one gripe and it’s with the EW-D beltpack. There’s only the power button, sync button and power light. No menus, no buttons, battery indicator. All adjustments are made via the Bluetooth app on the phone. The battery indicator is on the front of the receiver. So I’ve gotten used to the way that works.
I’m very happy with EW-D.

Might be worth contacting Lectrosonics to service and/or trade in your old unit. As expensive as their stuff is I'd think it'd be well worth it.

 

[Bonecat]

FWIW, we run Shure 6 GLXD mics and 3 Sennheiser IEM transmitters coupled mono to 6 receivers. We have antenna combiners for both and run a pair of Shure passive paddle antennas and a single larger sennheiser paddle antenna. We mount the paddles on a Gator antenna mount on a mic stand. Works well in busy/large rooms. In smaller spaces we'll use short antennas on the back of the rack which is sub-optimal, but works. Our stage router is set to broadcast only on the 5.8GHz band to give the miocs some room. Seems to work fine in all but the most crowded rooms. YMMV...