Double Bass Doubling

[Ric Vice]

There are two different approaches to building a doubling rig.Modular I.e. a configurable pedal board with units that handle input switching, filtering, EQ
phase, and preamp functions or all in ones that consolidate all those features into a single box. The onboard features of your amplifier and your choice of pickup determine what additional processing you’ll need. just my take however.

 

[Mr Ignoto]

Thanks and regards to all. I've been doubling consistently for the last 8 years or so and have been (probably too much) obsessed about the best way to approach the OP's challenge. I've had some success with various configurations, including (a) a GK head (pre-amp devoted to electric, effects-in devoted to upright), (b) a two channel AI clarus, and (c) a Radial Bassbone OD pre-amp.

But my current "go-to" set-up is a Radial BigShot I/O > Genzler Magellan pre > Quilter (200 or BB 800) > various speaker configurations.

I find this to be a very simple, economical, and streamlined set-up, which fits on one pedaltrain nano pedal, and gets me the following key functions: (1) tuner and mute button at the front of the signal chain for both inputs, (2) volume / input level matching and trim, (3) high pass filter, (4) clean upright sound (Magellan contour A), (5) idiot-proof old-school tone shaping for the electric bass (Magellan contour B), (6) quick and quiet switching between instruments on stage, and (7) quality DI, and (8) scalability with simple power amp and speaker configurations.

The only real down-sides I have found with this set-up are (a) need to hit both select and contour buttons when switching between upright and electric, and (b) no effects loop on the pre-amp (which would allow even more colors for the palette).

 

[DJ Bebop]

I kinda work with what I got. WD 800 into a SW 115.

I turn off the 3-band semi-parametric mids, set up what is left for the slab. Then I turn on the 3-band mids and adjust them to work with the upright. Sometimes a small tweak of gain or overall master volume. It works well for the few times I have done it

 

[Hasty]

Like so many others here, I've invested so much (likely too much) time and effort into effective doubling solutions. I've used AB switches, multi channel amps (EA Doubler/ AI TEN2), multi channel preamps (Grace Felix and a few that I designed myself). They all have lots of Pros and very few Cons.

My favorites in no particular order...

Grace Felix- For me this one is pretty much the gold standard. Going into an amp or into a PA/FOH. It just works and works very well.

EA Doubler- A relatively close second to the Felix for amplified gigs. Small and light. I love the footswitch option for muting and swapping channels. More than enough power IMO. If I need more power then I should probably be going to FOH. Downside is a single DI out... but again, this is for amplified gigs and not FOH type gigs.

AI TEN2- I'd say it's as good as the Doubler. The only downside for this one is the lack of a footswitch, but I have a button that turns channel 2 on and off. It's a little clunky for quick swaps but it works. Single DI out falls under the same caveat as the Doubler.

Homebrewed two channel preamps- I loved making them, and they sound good. They're not perfect, but that's because I learned how to design and build them on the internet. Great for tiny, intimate, gigs where I'm traveling light and running into a tiny powered cab like my MAS16.

A/B switches- Probably my least favorite. Great for quick swaps, but I always wish I had better EQ/ Volume control. I can get it with the addition of multiple preamps... but that's just adding extra stuff. I do always have one in my bag (along with a passive DI) as a contingency.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

I haven't doubled for years but have one coming up in Sept.
My plan-
Mesa Boogie Subway D-350/Acme B1
Upright- Yamahiko > tube buffer > active input
Electric- TC mini tuner >Tech21 Q\Strip DI > Aux input
The mute on the amp works for the upright.
The tuner works to mute the ebass.
For FOH, I can send either a mixed signal from the D-350 DI for both, or a separate signal from the Tech21 DI for the electric and still use the internal DI for the upright.
The Aux in on the D-350 inserts just before the master volume/power amp, so it's essentially a second channel for the stage rig (and summed FOH signal.)
This routing lets me control gain, EQ and mute for both instruments and sum them through the amp/speaker for a stage monitor.

The more streamlined version is to run the Tech21 as the buffer/EQ into the input of the D-350. In this senario the Q\Strip disengaged worked pretty well as a buffer for the Yamahiko and engaged, as the a fine EQ/volume control for the electric. This only allows one output to FOH and requires muting and swapping the cable between the two instruments.

Both of these work well and give me really nice EQ options for both instruments. The amp/cab rig weighs about 34lbs, is very portable and sounds pretty amazing for both basses.

Revised, the Aux In on the Subway D-350 is after the DI.

The D350 is all I need! The only difference is input volumes which are covered by the active/passive switch on the amp. The Cleveland/Yamahiko uses the active position and the P-Bass uses the passive position. The EQ settings for both are very similar, I roll off a touch of bass for the upright.
FYI, I'm also using this tube buffer for both... a little sauce that makes the upright sound more 3D.

 

[Ric Vice]

Like most players of a certain age, I started doubling with a Walter Woods MI-100-8. Walter had different EQ voicing on each channel.
Channel 1 EB Channel 2 DB with a 3 way toggle switch that selected Channel 1, Channel 2 or Both. Easy peasy. The AT Cube Acoustic
has same capability tied to a foot switch. Easy peasy.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Like most players of a certain age, I started doubling with a Walter Woods MI-100-8. Walter had different EQ voicing on each channel.
Channel 1 EB Channel 2 DB with a 3 way toggle switch that selected Channel 1, Channel 2 or Both. Easy peasy. The AT Cube Acoustic
has same capability tied to a foot switch. Easy peasy.

I still have my MI-100-8. I don't double as much as I used to but if I did this is the rig I would use. Due to its age and repairability question I don't use it as much these days but would if the need was there.

 

[Ric Vice]

I still have my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra and just like you it’s sitting on a shelf ready to backup the AT Cube Acoustic if needed.

 

[Jefenator]

I've always found that with the right pickup & buffer, the DB signal should be effectively interchangeable with my EQ & levels for BG.
I am a fan of the Radial Bigshot I/O for its rugged simplicity. When speed is of the essence as it usually is in those doubling situations, it's nice to have just one foot switch to press.
The biggest challenge after that is getting enough space to have the DB semi-accessible.

 

[Ric Vice]

Jefenator,
I whole heartedly agree. Double basses take up a lot of real estate if you set them down. Plus there’s a potential for ‘disasters” picking them up and setting them down.

 

[Hasty]

I got one of those Bass Bars from Gollihur several years ago and it's been super stable and reliable. The bass is more of a 45 degree angle which makes it easy to grab and swap out with the electric bass.

 

[Happy Steve]

The bass is more of a 45 degree angle which makes it easy to grab

Ah ah - I think I saw John Goldsby using one of these in a WDR Big Band video a while ago, and I could not workout what I was looking at. Good ergonomics, and great for making the bass more visible for passers-by and discouraging people from stepping over the bass when it is sitting on its side.

 

[Ric Vice]

I have a McNut Bass Cradle that works well, it light weight and folds up. I like that Bass Bar idea looks very stable and portable. I had not seen that .

 

[Ric Vice]

From what I understand of the spec’s the Bass Bar would only be useful on my 5/8’s bass. The ribs on my Kolstine Busetto Travel Bass are to narrow.

 

[Paul New]

I think my decision is to just choose one or the other depending on which makes more sense for the particular gig. Real estate is often an issue with the big band and I can see myself clutzing up the place. If I were confident that I could get enough me in a stage monitor, and just use the amp for electric, I might try it. Some of the comments address that and it’s maybe not viable. I can get two inputs on the mxer. I know that because at times I am the sound guy as well as bass player.

It is doable with electric into a pre/di with XLR out to the mixer and a 1/4 out of the pre to effects return of either my Contra or Clarus, and double bass into the Acoustic Image front end and using that XLR out to the mixer. That gives me separate EQs for both instruments.

Then there’s the stand issue. I have a ingles stand but it doesn’t inspire confidence. In the rehearsal space i prop my upright on my GK 210 combo, and that’s actually very stable, but that amp doesn’t have an effects loop. I could do the same with my Ampeg Venture 410 rig, whch does have an effects loop, but then I’m taking up as much space as the trombone section.

So much for doubling.

 

[TomB]

I double pretty much all the time w my band. My setup is an AB/Y into my signal chain and 2x10 Aguilar rig. The DB goes into my Fishman Platinum before the rest of the chain. I almost always go FOH out of the Aguilar and use the amp mainly as a monitor. Having a good volume pedal is the best for keeping the balance between instruments and mitigating feedback with an amp on stage!

Here’s my setup.
View attachment 7289851

Some version of this is what I have used the last 30 years, though no upright gigs lately: URB into a dedicated preamp with EQ (and DI), ABY switch into a tuner/mute into a single amp input, URB and electric share amp EQ, amp DI to FOH. Effects follow the electric’s output into the ABY. There are many ways to do this it appears.

 

[Ric Vice]

I think my decision is to just choose one or the other depending on which makes more sense for the particular gig. Real estate is often an issue with the big band and I can see myself clutzing up the place. If I were confident that I could get enough me in a stage monitor, and just use the amp for electric, I might try it. Some of the comments address that and it’s maybe not viable. I can get two inputs on the mxer. I know that because at times I am the sound guy as well as bass player.

It is doable with electric into a pre/di with XLR out to the mixer and a 1/4 out of the pre to effects return of either my Contra or Clarus, and double bass into the Acoustic Image front end and using that XLR out to the mixer. That gives me separate EQs for both instruments.

Then there’s the stand issue. I have a ingles stand but it doesn’t inspire confidence. In the rehearsal space i prop my upright on my GK 210 combo, and that’s actually very stable, but that amp doesn’t have an effects loop. I could do the same with my Ampeg Venture 410 rig, whch does have an effects loop, but then I’m taking up as much space as the trombone section.

So much for doubling.

A very wise decision. I abandoned the Engles stand for a Hercules ( I also have The Bass Bar) way more stable and easier to use, but they both take up real estate on stage and with a big band as you mentioned that's a premium. In my experience, if you play the style properly the bass doesn't matter except for the cosmetic/visual component. None but a very select few can discern the difference in sound.. Doubling in general is kind of a thing of the past. Just my take however. I have a few gigs this summer where I will do some doubling with a Kolstine Busetto Bass and a Lakland 55-94. Just my take however and my amp's a GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic.

 

[Zbysek]

When I am doubling, I send two separate signals to FOH-one for each isntrument (usually via Auilar Tone Hammer preamp for BG and Broughton Messenger for upright).

For my monitoring, I usually plug one of the preamps into the instrument input on my amp (MB LM3) and the other preamp into the FX return.

 

[Norre]

Lately I’ve been doubling again and I’ve been looking for a solution for having a consistent sound using backline amps. I experimented with a pedalboard and so far this is my go-to setup (see pic). I’d like to add my own DI box to that in the future.

My DB goes into the Empress BassEQ which has all the bells and whistles you need (10MOhm input, HPF, LPF, EQ with variable notch filters, etc…) then to the Lehle A/B switcher into the tuner to the provided amp. My BG goes into the Origin Effects DCX (I use the EQ setting not the OD) which sound greats with my passive P-bass and flats. Then it goes to the Broughton HPF into the Lehle AB switcher then to the tuner and finally into the amp. I’m still learning to use the Empress but so far results have been very satisfying.