Double Bass Doubling

[Paul New]

I know there must be a zillion threads on this, but I am very poor at search terms.

Anyway, I want to double in my big band situation, and would like to hear how others are doing it.

My first inclination is to use my double bass preamp as a DI for my upright, no monitor other than band monitors, electric into my single input amp head, utilizing the DI out on the head also.

I’m a little bit clumsy and am worried about the physical aspects as much as amplification and sound.

 

[Sam Reese]

If you have a sound person and you can get a monitor close to yourself, I'd go for two preamp/DIs over schlepping an amp (unless it's the holy grail to your electric bass's sound).

 

[Paul New]

If you have a sound person and you can get a monitor close to yourself, I'd go for two preamp/DIs over schlepping an amp (unless it's the holy grail to your electric bass's sound).

I think that’s the best solution. Plus, it gives me a good excuse to buy a new preamp/DI!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

If you have an effects return on your amp, your db preamp can go into that.

 

[bassmanbrent]

If you have an effects return on your amp, your db preamp can go into that.

I second this idea. I've done it a bunch myself. Simple and effective.

 

[Sam Reese]

I use an Euphonic Audio Doubler amp when I switch hit between db and slab; small head with pretty good wattage. Only thing is, they don't make them anymore. You can plug your db's pickup in directly or use a mic. They can be found used occasionally.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hopefully, having a monitor will solve your problem. You’ll want to check with your sound mam to see if how many channels his/her system has.
Most newer ones have at least 4 . If it’s possible for the bass to have its own channel that will work. If you can’t I’d go with plugging your DB preamp into the Effects Return of you’re amp. Either will work.

 

[ad9000]

I used an EA Doubler II for a couple of years. I loved the practicality of it but I eventually decided I just didn't like the sound - I found it to have a weird, ringy upper mid character that I couldn't dial out and not much warmth at all. It was also a bit underpowered. I really like EA stuff in general, so that was disappointing.

I've recently found that the best solution for doubling for me is two separate amp rigs, if I'm up for the shlep. The last doubling gig I had was three nights in the same theater, with an easy load in, so it was worthwhile to bring the extra gear.
For upright the rig was:
ToneDexter > Quilter BB802 head > 2 EA VL110 cabinets (DI out from the ToneDexter to FOH). I used a volume pedal to mute the signal coming from the upright so the sound person didn't have to deal with that.
For electric:
Kern preamp > Demeter Minnie power amp > EA VL 210 cabinet (signal to house sent from Radial passive DI box in front of the Kern).

I have a gig coming up next weekend which is about 80% upright, 20% electric. For that one, since it's a fairly small stage and only two short sets I'll make do with one amp rig, which I believe will be the Quilter BB802 into my recently acquired Barefaced Super Twin cab. Since there's no PA support I'll use a Radial A/B box and I'll make volume and EQ adjustments on the electric bass. Trying to keep it as simple and hands-free as possible so I can concentrate on the music!

 

[kinopah]

I double pretty much all the time w my band. My setup is an AB/Y into my signal chain and 2x10 Aguilar rig. The DB goes into my Fishman Platinum before the rest of the chain. I almost always go FOH out of the Aguilar and use the amp mainly as a monitor. Having a good volume pedal is the best for keeping the balance between instruments and mitigating feedback with an amp on stage!

Here’s my setup.

 

[Wasnex]

I have done it a variety of different ways. The ideal approach is to have a separate channel for each instrument. I actually used a rack mixer as the front end of my last touring rig. I switched between bass guitar, upright, and electric upright. The mixer gave me gain, EQ, and mute capabilities for all three instruments.

The first time I doubled, I used an amp with one input. To change instruments, I had to repatch the instrument cord and then adjust the amp, which takes time. I improved on that by building an ABY box. This was faster because the patching was done. The next improvement was to use an SWR RedHead. This amp has an effects loop and empty rack space on the front panel. I ran a Rane 31-Band EQ in the loop. I got a basic sound with the amp's tone controls and then used the graphic to dial in the upright and set its level. So switching basses involved toggling the ABY and the bypass switch on the graphic.

 

[Francois Blais]

Hopefully, having a monitor will solve your problem. You’ll want to check with your sound mam to see if how many channels his/her system has.
Most newer ones have at least 4 . If it’s possible for the bass to have its own channel that will work. If you can’t I’d go with plugging your DB preamp into the Effects Return of you’re amp. Either will work.

However, the Effects Return on some amps is cutting the preamp output.
My old Genz-Benz head is built that way.
I can’t mix both signals that way, unfortunately.

 

[Ric Vice]

Francois, I did not know that. I do know the GR AT Cube Acoustic solves the Issue for me, Unfortunately it’s more expensive.

 

[bherman]

I double regularly and tried a number of options - finally settled on two that work well for me. First, I'd say that the most important thing that I found that I needed was the ability to switch quickly between basses without having to change any preamp or amp settings. The most important factor is volume differences. The simplest approach is a AB pedal that has separate volume controls for each input. I found a simple device made by a company called Saturnworks that does just that - and only that. (see photo attached). You just plug the URB in one jack, and the electric in the other. Hit the switch and it changes between them.

I used it for some time and it works fine, but then wanted a bit more input impedance for the upright without having a separate preamp, and perhaps a bit of tone shaping. So I now use a Red-Eye Twin preamp that has two inputs, each with a level control and an adjustable treble control. It also has a boost (for soloing), and DI outs. Its fairly pricey ($395) but very well made and works perfectly. Heres a link to the Red-Eye: Red-Eye Twin

At one time, I also had a separate tone-shaping preamp that I kicked on only when switched to the upright, but got tired of messing with so many different boxes. So I just set my amp pretty much flat, and just adjust the levels between the electric and upright. Hope this helps......

 

[Jeff Kissell]

I haven't doubled for years but have one coming up in Sept.
My plan-
Mesa Boogie Subway D-350/Acme B1
Upright- Yamahiko > tube buffer > active input
Electric- TC mini tuner >Tech21 Q\Strip DI > Aux input
The mute on the amp works for the upright.
The tuner works to mute the ebass.
For FOH, I can send either a mixed signal from the D-350 DI for both, or a separate signal from the Tech21 DI for the electric and still use the internal DI for the upright.
The Aux in on the D-350 inserts just before the master volume/power amp, so it's essentially a second channel for the stage rig (and summed FOH signal.)
This routing lets me control gain, EQ and mute for both instruments and sum them through the amp/speaker for a stage monitor.

The more streamlined version is to run the Tech21 as the buffer/EQ into the input of the D-350. In this senario the Q\Strip disengaged worked pretty well as a buffer for the Yamahiko and engaged, as the a fine EQ/volume control for the electric. This only allows one output to FOH and requires muting and swapping the cable between the two instruments.

Both of these work well and give me really nice EQ options for both instruments. The amp/cab rig weighs about 34lbs, is very portable and sounds pretty amazing for both basses.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

If you go into the effect return, check if that signal goes to the DI out too.
On my Genz Benz Shuttle the DI out is pre effect loop (at least when the DI out is set to pre-EQ). If not you only have seperate DI outs, not a mixed one at the amp.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

If you go into the effect return, check if that signal goes to the DI out too.
On my Genz Benz Shuttle the DI out is pre effect loop (at least when the DI out is set to pre-EQ). If not you only have seperate DI outs, not a mixed one at the amp.

Excellent point, in looking at the D-350 schematic, the Aux in inserts directly AFTER the internal DI, so my first option will only work with separate DI sends to FOH.
One from the amp (upright) and the other from the Q\Strip (electric bass.)
The muting and EQ will still work as stated.

 

[Brad Maestas]

For years I used Raven Labs products to mix two or more signals to go into a single combo or small stack for monitoring and another feed for the FOH. Now when I double I have been using a Grace Design Felix2 and it is an incredibly-versatile tool that has all the features you need to blend multiple sources for your on-stage monitor system and give a discrete FOH feed.

With more shows going in-ears only, it's even easier because you're just creating one mix to send out instead of one tailored for your amp and one tailored for the FOH.

 

[oren]

For a while I thought I was going to be doubling a lot, so I went for the luxury solution, the Grace Felix 2 preamp. It turns out that I rarely double now, but I love the Felix and will keep it for a long time. Grace recently came out with a smaller, less expensive 2 channel preamp, the Moxie, which looks interesting.

 

[Ric Vice]

I guess depending on your budget the Moxi is an alternative. It’s certainly less expensive. If your’e using don’t intend to use a Microphone or blend a mic and a pickup then you don’t need all those features. Coming from the Felix I’d miss the fully parametric midrange, Amp out volume control and other things.

 

[Lionel Albert]

ABY pedal A DB with the preamp and B BG directly into the amp without preamp.
It might work.