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Double Bass Doubling
- Thread starter Paul New
- Start date
I have friend who still uses the Solstice for fiddle and violin.
Rick Turner passed away last year I think.
Rick Turner passed away last year I think.
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Same here, although I rarely use my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra, but it was designed to be a Electro/Acoustic amplifier. Just for the good of the order, Walter changed over the Channel EQ's on the Electroacoustics. The orignial MI series amps were reversed Channel 2 was for Double Bass with while Channel 1 was for Electric Bass. IME it was a rather subtile difference as both channels had such wide frequency sweeps.
I finally figured out a decent workaround. I’ve done some shows of my own where we do a straight ahead jazz set the first set (w/upright and brushes and piano sounds, tenor sax etc) and a funky soul jazz electric set next with electric bass (obviously), sticks and groovy backbeats, fender Rhodes style electric piano, alto sax etc.
Switching randomly throughout the evening is just awful for me.
Switching randomly throughout the evening is just awful for me.
I used to juggle three channels when doubling: mic and piezo into a Headway EDB2 HE for upright, and BG into its own effects chain. All that into a power amp into an MAS cab. It was too much to juggle—granted sometimes i left out the mic for simplicity. I finally got a Tone Dexter II, which cuts out the need for a mic, plus a separate channel can be used for BG. The BG channel is only good for EQ, HPF, and reverb (not that reverb is much use on BG, but it’s there since a recent update).
A big part of what convinced me was reading about all the improvements made with the 2nd generation.
Edit: the other cool thing about this setup is that i can replace the three cables with wireless adapters.
A big part of what convinced me was reading about all the improvements made with the 2nd generation.
Edit: the other cool thing about this setup is that i can replace the three cables with wireless adapters.
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Until I got myself a two channel amp from Walter Woods, I just used an A-B box ahead of my amp.
DB -> buffer preamp -> A input
BG -> B input
At first I used a DOD box that was just a switch, no indicators of what was currently selected. I replaced that with a Rapco which had LEDs to indicate what was active. I could disable both inputs to mute the amp. I have no idea if Rapco still makes this. Don't let the labeling confuse you, most A/B boxes are bidirectional with nothing but the foot switch between input and output, so I used the A and B out jacks as the inputs and the Input jack as the output.
I eventually got tired of this setup, so I got a Walter Woods and later an AI Coda both of which have full two-channel preamps. Both have hi-Z inputs so don't require a buffer preamp.
I think the GR Acoustic cube amp may be the only amp in current production other than an SVT with a full two channel preamp.
DB -> buffer preamp -> A input
BG -> B input
At first I used a DOD box that was just a switch, no indicators of what was currently selected. I replaced that with a Rapco which had LEDs to indicate what was active. I could disable both inputs to mute the amp. I have no idea if Rapco still makes this. Don't let the labeling confuse you, most A/B boxes are bidirectional with nothing but the foot switch between input and output, so I used the A and B out jacks as the inputs and the Input jack as the output.
I eventually got tired of this setup, so I got a Walter Woods and later an AI Coda both of which have full two-channel preamps. Both have hi-Z inputs so don't require a buffer preamp.
I think the GR Acoustic cube amp may be the only amp in current production other than an SVT with a full two channel preamp.
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There is the Gollihur Genzler Bass Array but it has some limitations power and phantom wise. Just my take.
I've found doubling to be a real issue. I have EA doubler and AI clarus. I can switch fine between channels on the EA, the clarus seems to always blend some settings from the other channel (maybe my ignorance of how it works). The thing is, most situations when I am required to double require me to go through the pa. This renders relying exclusively on the two channel amp useless. I do not want the soundman to have 2 very different instruments go through the one channel. Tonally, this seems all wrong. I have been using a DI/preamp for upright, and using the amp DI for electric. Not very satifsying tbh when you are relying on monitors for your DB rather than your amp. What I have been doing is route the DB output through to my amp (not affecting the soundmans signal). Ultimately, a 2 amp setup seems the best solution soundwise, but who is going to lug even more heavy gear about?
You might check how the two independent channels work with the single DI . Acoustic Image manuals included block digrams
that shows the signal path/route. The Grace Felix and the GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic have Dual DI’s (which doesn’t solve your issue with Acoustic Image’s setup) There are internal jumpers inside the Amplifier that can be configured to re route the Channel 2 signal to the rear panel. Wheather or not it will solve your problem I don’t know.
that shows the signal path/route. The Grace Felix and the GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic have Dual DI’s (which doesn’t solve your issue with Acoustic Image’s setup) There are internal jumpers inside the Amplifier that can be configured to re route the Channel 2 signal to the rear panel. Wheather or not it will solve your problem I don’t know.
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When I used to do a lot of doubling my Walter Woods(that I still sometimes use) worked very well. The thing that was the biggest issue for me was the switching between the two basses, which required two instrument stands and the space required as well as time between changes, which could sometimes be very short. If they took place as part of a show with the band or orchestra in a pit with limited space and headroom, the choreography by the bassist could be as complex as on the stage.
I used an Ashley MX508 rack mixer to switch between three instruments. My assumption was the audio tech would use a separate DI for each bass. Instead he took one of the line outs off the main stereo bus. This means he got a post EQ signal for each bass.
In general I don't like running my bass through a PA monitor when I am running an amp. The reason is because a monitor and amp frequently seem to fight rather than working together. Turning up the monitor may seem louder, but it can make it harder to ear.
IME it is particularly difficult to get good results running double bass through a monitor. The first concern is gain before feedback. The second concern is the audio tech can not hear what you are hearing on stage. Getting a reasonably natural sound from an amplified double bass can take considerable fussing with the EQ. This is not something that can be done blind.
I've had the same experiences with the shows I've Doubled on. Switching to EB from DB requires you to either use a stand for the DB or set it down.When I used to do a lot of doubling my Walter Woods(that I still sometimes use) worked very well. The thing that was the biggest issue for me was the switching between the two basses, which required two instrument stands and the space required as well as time between changes, which could sometimes be very short. If they took place as part of a show with the band or orchestra in a pit with limited space and headroom, the choreography by the bassist could be as complex as on the stage.
most DB stands take less horizontal space than lying the bass down, Most of my experiences with doubling have been big band gigs and their's usually more space on the stage. On some gigs I was able to ditch one instrument and stay with one. Even though you remind folks of the time it will take to switch from one to another, they always forget that during the show, in the heat of performance. It's a huge PITA. Musicals are a totally different beast. If they write the changes overs into show you just have to deal with it.
They put me up on an 6'x6' riser to place my DB, EB, amp, music stand and bass stool on. I managed to support the DB on a chair to my left when
not in use and the EB on a stand to my right. It worked and there were no mishaps, but it was too much to have to deal with on a show
where I'm basically reading everything after a short run through.
My EA Doubler made that part of it very easy though, I'm happy to say.
Wow that sounds really challenging. Glad you were able to make it work Eric. Were you able to use a foot switch to change channels. The Grace Felix
is ideal in that situation, but it's a higher priced add on. At the time, you could buy a EA Doubler for less than a Felix. That's why I'm using
a GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic now. All in one amps are great for Doubling.
is ideal in that situation, but it's a higher priced add on. At the time, you could buy a EA Doubler for less than a Felix. That's why I'm using
a GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic now. All in one amps are great for Doubling.
It can work, as long as your db preamp gives you what you need for db vol/tone control once you’re running through the amp eq’d for BG - it might or might not. I’ve done it this way through multiple preamps and BG amps on the rare occasion I double. …it’s simple.
Are there individual mute buttons or a DI source switch on the Clarus? If so, then you should be able to just use an XLR Y cable to give the soundman a place to hook up two separate channels. Then use the Clarus head to switch between the two sources. Alternatively, you could plug a passive DI box into the FX loop of one of the channels.
As for two channel preamps in pedal format, i think the ToneDexter II is pretty ideal. It has 32 channels/patches.
As for two channel preamps in pedal format, i think the ToneDexter II is pretty ideal. It has 32 channels/patches.
All the Acoustic Image Amp Heads have a single mute which can certainly work. It’s easier with a preamp that has Channel selection tied to a foot switch. I.E. the Grace Felix, EA Doubler, GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic. Just my take however.
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