Aha, someone who actually understands. Thank you for an answer based on facts about reality rather than intuition.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Wiring
- Thread starter James Copple
- Start date
I would not call a sound, factual engineer's response "intuition". Personally I don't care how much equipment you may damage with finding out the facts or how much signal degradation your signal suffers during the band-aids. 
I just bought "Rolls PM52 Passive Headphone Tap Monitor Level Converter" from www.parts-express.com.
Now I can plug my speaker output into a mixer and I don't have to worry about applying too much voltage to my mixer if I inadvertently turn the input knob up to max.
Now I can plug my speaker output into a mixer and I don't have to worry about applying too much voltage to my mixer if I inadvertently turn the input knob up to max.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,062
- 5
- 221,099
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
There are custom transformer based solutions, but under no circumstance can pin 1 ever connect to either speaker terminal for any amp with BTL or non-ground referenced amp outputs.
(This is not intuition, as I have designed both amps as well as consoles)
(This is not intuition, as I have designed both amps as well as consoles)
Sliderbass
Dr. Bass, The best cabinet you'll NEVER own!
Sliderbass
Dr. Bass, The best cabinet you'll NEVER own!
Why is it that whenever someone connects some thing up in a manner that makes everyone cringe, it's ok just because no magic smoke was released?
THEN after asking the "is this a good idea" question and being told NO several different ways, say "see, it worked".
I love people!
Sorry about the popcorn. I'll eat yours. Can't have it go to waste.
THEN after asking the "is this a good idea" question and being told NO several different ways, say "see, it worked".
I love people!
Sorry about the popcorn. I'll eat yours. Can't have it go to waste.
If you eat it, eventually it will.
I was going to say I'll just take a good deep sniff, but Beans changed my mind 
I was going to say I'll just take a good deep sniff, but Beans changed my mind
There's a theater near where I live. I'm convinced that they pump popcorn, butter, and salt into the air to draw people in.
RIGHT! Drive me bonkers. If the pain wasn't so bad and last so long I would give in.
Wouldn't it overdrive? I can't understand why anyone would need to do that...No line out?
A DI would be the best bet, skip to the bottom if you want to do it right.....but.., if you absolutely need a signal to the mixer, RIGHT NOW, with just whats laying around, I think you can get an unbalanced line out by running a cable from the second input on your amp to the mixer, I know you can get a signal that way from an old Fender bassman, I vaguely remember seeing someone do it when I was a kid{that was 30 years ago however}
Another zero budget way (at least better than running the hot line to the mixer) would be to cut 2 instrument cables in half, then twist or solder them together to make a Y adapter. then plug one end into the MIC input on the mixer(the MIC setting will boost it a bit). That is going to sound weak and lifeless compared to a proper balanced signal, but you will safely get a signal.
IF the reason you want to go from your speaker output to the mixer because you need a hotter signal than plugging direct, you could use a Headphone, or Turntable preamp, those might be noisy, ok for practice or even live maybe, will totally suck for recording.
The best solution (which you probably figured out) would be to use a proper DI box, I like the Radial for recording, I have a bunch of them, they always seem to work and do nothing at all to color the sound *(to my ears). IF you DO want to color the sound, and can't afford a REDDI, the ART studio tube preamp has a 12ax7 valve, and if you put a nice tube in it (actually I'm not sure what the stock tube is like, I always swap em first thing -probably fine.) they warm up the sound nicely for live sound, they don't seem to last very long, I get about a year before they start getting crackly.
ALSO you need to use a DI in case you experience Phase cancellation, a lot of times when your mix sounds weak or funny, you just have something out of phase, flipping the phase switch can fix that. No DI, No phase switch.
Balanced VS Unbalanced--
Unbalanced connection is a grounded connection that can can have background noise, interference and loss of clarity, especially if it's a long cable, or is going thru a bunch of connections, A balanced line is a 3 way connection, ground, live AND return what happens with this is that noise is cancelled out because of a couple reasons (I don't understand them all, sound is magic) part it is done by the amplifier, noise on both signals cancels each other out at the amp ,part is accomplished just by having the two wires so close to each other ; xlr cables are twisted inside--that prevents induction (interference),and the shield is just a shield not the ground so no cross talk or any funny business....probably some other things I haven't learned yet.
I hope that helps, I know a lot of times I wonder things like that "what if I connect the speaker out to the mixer???"[well, not that], and you get plenty of answers like "NO!", a few people take the time to explain why it's a bad idea, but half the time the reasons are over my head, a little research into the answers usually clears it up tho.
SO...What happened when you ignored everybody and did it anyway? I'm guessing it worked, but sounded like a tube screamer on low.
A DI would be the best bet, skip to the bottom if you want to do it right.....but.., if you absolutely need a signal to the mixer, RIGHT NOW, with just whats laying around, I think you can get an unbalanced line out by running a cable from the second input on your amp to the mixer, I know you can get a signal that way from an old Fender bassman, I vaguely remember seeing someone do it when I was a kid{that was 30 years ago however}
Another zero budget way (at least better than running the hot line to the mixer) would be to cut 2 instrument cables in half, then twist or solder them together to make a Y adapter. then plug one end into the MIC input on the mixer(the MIC setting will boost it a bit). That is going to sound weak and lifeless compared to a proper balanced signal, but you will safely get a signal.
IF the reason you want to go from your speaker output to the mixer because you need a hotter signal than plugging direct, you could use a Headphone, or Turntable preamp, those might be noisy, ok for practice or even live maybe, will totally suck for recording.
The best solution (which you probably figured out) would be to use a proper DI box, I like the Radial for recording, I have a bunch of them, they always seem to work and do nothing at all to color the sound *(to my ears). IF you DO want to color the sound, and can't afford a REDDI, the ART studio tube preamp has a 12ax7 valve, and if you put a nice tube in it (actually I'm not sure what the stock tube is like, I always swap em first thing -probably fine.) they warm up the sound nicely for live sound, they don't seem to last very long, I get about a year before they start getting crackly.
ALSO you need to use a DI in case you experience Phase cancellation, a lot of times when your mix sounds weak or funny, you just have something out of phase, flipping the phase switch can fix that. No DI, No phase switch.
Balanced VS Unbalanced--
Unbalanced connection is a grounded connection that can can have background noise, interference and loss of clarity, especially if it's a long cable, or is going thru a bunch of connections, A balanced line is a 3 way connection, ground, live AND return what happens with this is that noise is cancelled out because of a couple reasons (I don't understand them all, sound is magic) part it is done by the amplifier, noise on both signals cancels each other out at the amp ,part is accomplished just by having the two wires so close to each other ; xlr cables are twisted inside--that prevents induction (interference),and the shield is just a shield not the ground so no cross talk or any funny business....probably some other things I haven't learned yet.
I hope that helps, I know a lot of times I wonder things like that "what if I connect the speaker out to the mixer???"[well, not that], and you get plenty of answers like "NO!", a few people take the time to explain why it's a bad idea, but half the time the reasons are over my head, a little research into the answers usually clears it up tho.
SO...What happened when you ignored everybody and did it anyway? I'm guessing it worked, but sounded like a tube screamer on low.
Technically, maybe, but it's a terrible idea, generally.
Either use the "line out" "DI out" or "preamp out" of your head (depending on what it's called on your specific model), or get a speaker-level DI like the Countryman.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,062
- 5
- 221,099
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Is this becoming the season of poor advice? Scary actually, what some folks think is ok or good practice.
I have noticed in my later years that the value of your words can be measured by the number of them you use, more succinctly that you don't use. 
You'll pick up a dollar on the ground, but walk by a hundred pennies.
You'll pick up a dollar on the ground, but walk by a hundred pennies.
ok, I hope I will not be misunderstood.
Several years ago I was confronted with a situation where we had to run a power mixing console into a self powered PA. You may ask why I did not used the phone jack line level out of the console? We only had XLR cables by hand and therefore where forced to run the signal of the power amp out inte the XLR inputs of the self powered PA.
For the record, I don't suggest to do it this way (generally) nothing at all). But REAL live sometimes lets you run into cracy situations where only an unothodox practice helps you to run off from collapse, which in clear words means "no sound at all".
May be the question to the subject should read like:
"...is it possible without any risk independent of the level of the input signal at the mixing console"
Then the answer would be very clearly:
No
Several years ago I was confronted with a situation where we had to run a power mixing console into a self powered PA. You may ask why I did not used the phone jack line level out of the console? We only had XLR cables by hand and therefore where forced to run the signal of the power amp out inte the XLR inputs of the self powered PA.
For the record, I don't suggest to do it this way (generally) nothing at all). But REAL live sometimes lets you run into cracy situations where only an unothodox practice helps you to run off from collapse, which in clear words means "no sound at all".
May be the question to the subject should read like:
"...is it possible without any risk independent of the level of the input signal at the mixing console"
Then the answer would be very clearly:
No
Last edited:
Here's a good reason why you just don't make things work that aren't supposed to. When I was interning for a production company that did lighting and ambiance for theatre, my boss at the time told me his last actual employee was fired for somehow connecting one of the 7-pin audio lines running from the board to the 9-pin lights line and blew up the sound company's board and our lights and controllers.
