With Tube Prices So High, Worth Looking into NOS?

[eottjake]

I think the 6 power tubes in my Eden 300v are worth more than the amp itself as a whole….no joke. But, it’s a great head.

Having had that head in the past....yes they are lol

 

[31HZ]

I think I know how this semi-myth keeps getting perpetuated.

Like all urban and marketing myths, there is a little bit of truth to this in a roundabout way that has been manipulated as the truth becomes obscured with time. Similar to how the term
Mil Spec gets bantered about in the marketing world without any mention of WHICH Mil Spec actually applies.

Red painted tips on tubes are often marketed as medical grade, but in fact all a colored tip (there are more than the color red) means is that the tube has been graded or selected for a specific set of specifications.

I recall seeing graded tubes with colored tips used in differential amplifiers, specifically for parameters such as mu range and balance/matching between sections, drift between sections and low noise. These parameters are especially important in direct coupled diff amps, also called instrumentation amps… which are used in many industries including medical. For example, most chart recorders of the day used DC differential inputs, including those used for medical applications.

I have also seen graded tubes used in oscillator circuits, again for stability against drift in this application. Some oscilloscopes also used graded tubes in the input amplifier and time base sections. Maybe red, maybe another color depending on what the grading was for.

I also recall some organs using graded tubes with colored tips, oscillator drift was critical (except for Hammond tone wheel models). Most organ manufacturers also had custom printing on their tubes so clearly these were never intended for the medical industry.

This doesn’t preclude manufacturers of medical equipment having their tubes printed with a logo, symbol or their name, but this was common for all OEM users (including Mesa) if a large enough customer.

When marketing folks state that red tip tubes are “medical grade”, I think that what they really mean is that the tube is graded but without OEM documentation, there’s no way to know what it’s actually graded for. Clearly, a Fender branded tube with a red tip can’t be medical grade (for example)

I have a Tektrinix tube in my inventory with a red tip, I know for sure where it came from (scope spare) that is positively not medical in any way. It’s just a tube graded for use as an input amp, and I don’t know the grading criteria, but I have also seen this tube listed as “medical grade”, which gets back yo the old marketing argument.

The grading is to the OEM buyer’s specs, there is no medical grade except that each IEM is free to specify their own grading criteria (like we still do, and we sometimes mark our tubes to this effect as well).

I really appreciate the detailed response; as someone who has a fair amount of tube gear, it's helpful to know what I'm looking at (and maybe NOT looking at) when in the market for a tube.

And just to be clear, my referring to the tube as "hospital grade" was meant more of a response to the other poster who had bought tubes from Brent Jessee as a way to identify the particular Mazda stock that I bought, and not a HEY EVERYBODY YOU OUGHTA TRY A HOSPITAL-GRADE TUBE, ha.

 

[Zak TMD]

Likely to go even higher then.. IIRC the "tube shortage" is mostly due to sanctions against russia, no?

Yea, and I doubt there will be an end any time soon.

 

[Zak TMD]

Not the only factor since we also had a pandemic but it’s certainly up there. Completely shut off the supply from Sovtek/New Sensor.

And the manufacturing facility in China still hasn't caught up

 

[H K]

Whats the difference between say EHX 6550 (at around 90$ new here), and a Sovtek 6550WD (ca 35$ here)?
Are they plain different tubes? Whats the WD part?

Probably a really stupid question but I'm pretty new to the specifics of tubes

 

[Sushi Box FX]

If you still haven't found anything, Antique Electronic Supply has matched quads of Tung-Sol 6550 for $325, or if you or someone you know qualifies for a wholesale account with CE Distribution you can get matched quads for $266. EHX matched Quads are a little less at $251.

I use NOS preamp tubes from time to time (after thorough testing), but NOS power tubes is a gamble I won't personally take.

 

[Passinwind]

I use NOS preamp tubes from time to time (after thorough testing), but NOS power tubes is a gamble I won't personally take.

Same here.

 

[Slapndbayass]

Reasonable prices for Winged C 6550’s

tctubes.com vintage vacuum tubes

I bought a quad (two matched pairs) of St. Petersburg Svetlanas (Pre Winged C) from Tyler and Chelsea back in 2013 for $127 plus shipping.

 

[agedhorse]

Would you know if GE back then would destroy the defective ones? I've seen photos of tube companies way back in the day there was a department and a guy whose job it was to crush bad tubes off the line, make sure they did not get into circulation. Unlike today.

Yes, bad tubes are often destroyed but reality is never 100%. Some folks made a good living by buying off spec unmarked tubes and relabeling them. Some off spec tubes are perfectly fine for some applications but not others. That’s why sometimes you don’t know exactly what you are getting.

 

[Zak TMD]

If you still haven't found anything, Antique Electronic Supply has matched quads of Tung-Sol 6550 for $325, or if you or someone you know qualifies for a wholesale account with CE Distribution you can get matched quads for $266. EHX matched Quads are a little less at $251.

I use NOS preamp tubes from time to time (after thorough testing), but NOS power tubes is a gamble I won't personally take.

Hey thanks for the advice! Big appreciate. As it stands now, looks like viva tubes has matched quads at $280 + tax, so that's probably the way to go.

 

[Slapndbayass]

Citation needed.

Sylvania Pennsylvania factory 1945-46.
The guy below is in charge of destroying the factory defects. If they were concerned about the chance of bad tubes falling into unscrupulous hands back then, what's going on today?

From here:
Sylvania Factory Tour – Vintage Tube Services

Caption from Vintage Tube Services site (link above):
Sylvania Production Line – Tube Crushing Machine. This tube crushing machine prevented any seconds from falling into dishonest hands!

 

[Zak TMD]

Whats the difference between say EHX 6550 (at around 90$ new here), and a Sovtek 6550WD (ca 35$ here)?
Are they plain different tubes? Whats the WD part?

Probably a really stupid question but I'm pretty new to the specifics of tubes

Someone else can answer this better than I can, but different power tubes have different tonal characteristics (apparently). Some have more focused lows and mids, some are looser, etc. Friend told me he hates the highs / high mids on Sovteks in his SVT. 3rd party story, but I trust him based on his extensive gear usage... but still, take it with a grain of salt as I've only used Tung Sols and JJs in my stuff.

 

[H K]

Someone else can answer this better than I can, but different power tubes have different tonal characteristics (apparently). Some have more focused lows and mids, some are looser, etc. Friend told me he hates the highs / high mids on Sovteks in his SVT. 3rd party story, but I trust him based on his extensive gear usage... but still, take it with a grain of salt as I've only used Tung Sols and JJs in my stuff.

Ok, so basically, they still fit the same place in the amp, but they produce a different tone? Whats got me a bit confused is the difference in labels on the website. This is a direct translation, so probably not the words used in english normally; But ones labeled "end-stage" tube and one is labeled "exit"tube kinda

 

[agedhorse]

Sylvania Pennsylvania factory 1945-46.
The guy below is in charge of destroying the factory defects. If they were concerned about the chance of bad tubes falling into unscrupulous hands back then, what's going on today?

From here:
Sylvania Factory Tour – Vintage Tube Services
View attachment 4841172Caption from Vintage Tube Services site (link above):
Sylvania Production Line – Tube Crushing Machine. This tube crushing machine prevented any seconds from falling into dishonest hands!

Nothing different today, there were screen-outs then and now, just like there was deceptive marketing folks then and now.

Off spec tubes have always been available, what do you think happens to all the tubes that we return to the distributors that we find to be off spec? I’m talking about thousands of tubes.

 

[Zak TMD]

Ok, so basically, they still fit the same place in the amp, but they produce a different tone? Whats got me a bit confused is the difference in labels on the website. This is a direct translation, so probably not the words used in english normally; But ones labeled "end-stage" tube and one is labeled "exit"tube kinda

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but all 6550s can be used where 6550s go.

 

[Zak TMD]

Nothing different today, there were screen-outs then and now, just like there was deceptive marketing folks then and now.

Off spec tubes have always been available, what do you think happens to all the tubes that we return to the distributors that we find to be off spec? I’m talking about thousands of tubes.

I'm actually wondering if some of these lower cost "NOS" sellers are doing precisely that.

 

[Slapndbayass]

New tubes made today are not made the way they were in the heyday of tubes. The brand names got bought up including a lot of the gear from the old factories.

The vacuuming process to get the air out of the tube is where they skimp today vs back in the 20th. It's what makes the tube last longer and sound better.

Price of tubes went up because of supply chain issues firstly because of the lock down and then as this "war" started it just exacerbated everything into unobtanium.

Nothing different today, there were screen-outs then and now, just like there was deceptive marketing folks then and now.

Off spec tubes have always been available, what do you think happens to all the tubes that we return to the distributors that we find to be off spec? I’m talking about thousands of tubes.

Back in the day I don't remember having tube problems.

I think it's worse today. And the tubes are not made as well today as they were back then so more failures. Another reason to buy tubes from someone who is really in the tube business and has the proper testing gear and knowledge. I tend to buy U.S. made tubes but needing spares I went with a quad of old Svetlanas (pre winged C NOS) instead of U.S. and from a tube guy. The Tungsol 6550's I have are U.S. made used in Leslies. Sovtek seems to last over the other brands.

I'm glad I bought what I needed back when the planet wasn't in such a you know what.

 

[Slapndbayass]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but all 6550s can be used where 6550s go.

Yes any 6550 if your amp uses them will fit the sockets. The designation on the end of the "6550" (WD WE) does not mean the socket is different.

Tube tone quest is, more so these days, a costly endeavor. Tube rolling is a drawn out process of getting as many tubes as you can and trying them all out. And it all depends on one's specific gear and style. Hard to say one size fits all.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I just checked Eurotubes, where I get mine, and the prices have remained stable for a long time for the ones I use. I only run JJ tubes anyway.

Yep. Eurotubes still has 6550's at $100 per matched pair, $200 per matched quartet, etc. And they actually test and eliminate out-of-box failures. Doesn't happen often with JJ's, but I've had to return a couple from other suppliers, never with Eurotubes.

 

[Zak TMD]

Yep. Eurotubes still has 6550's at $100 per matched pair, $200 per matched quartet, etc. And they actually test and eliminate out-of-box failures. Doesn't happen often with JJ's, but I've had to return a couple from other suppliers, never with Eurotubes.

Decent price. JJs are made in Slovakia, so besides the COVID stuff, they're still producing and exporting regularly. Their minor price increases are due to people who typically buy other things now buying them, so just regular old Supply/demand.

EDIT: Forgot they moved their manufacturing to the main plant in China.