With Tube Prices So High, Worth Looking into NOS?

[agedhorse]

That’s not exactly a secret. And tube amp fans don’t really care all that much.

They seem to care a little bit more right now. The cost to re-tube an SVT might cause a weakness of heart in a player.

This is actually becoming an issue for some players, $500 for a re-tube represents a lot of gigs for a non-pro player.

 

[baxter_x]

Not the kind of things I like to read.... Especially since I got my first tube amp
Even if, my SVT7 pro be used most of the time.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Everything costs a lot. An oil change, cabin air and air intake, and a couple of little things at the car dealership is at par with an SVT retube. They want to do the work and inspect to ensure that other vehicle warranties are maintained.

 

[baxter_x]

Everything costs a lot. An oil change, cabin air and air intake, and a couple of little things at the car dealership is at par with an SVT retube. They want to do the work and inspect to ensure that other vehicle warranties are maintained.

Except you have no costs with SS amps. Unless you need to service it. Which is rare IME.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Except you have no costs with SS amps. Unless you need to service it. Which is rare IME.

All amps require periodic maintenance. At the very least, inspection, cleaning, deoxit, checking the power supply and bias. Many players tend to not have this done with solid state amps. Professional applications do.

I don’t know of any amp manufacturer that lays out a maintenance schedule. Marketing would object.

 

[baxter_x]

All amps require periodic maintenance. At the very least, inspection, cleaning, deoxit, checking the power supply and bias. Many players tend to not have this done with solid state amps. Professional applications do.

I don’t know of any amp manufacturer that lays out a maintenance schedule. Marketing would object.

I'm not really sure SS amps require such maintenance. Anyway, if it does, it has nothing to do with all tubes amps!
About the bias, I haven't heard about any SS amps requiring any maintenance on it. At the exepction of the SVT3 pro.

 

[agedhorse]

All amps require periodic maintenance. At the very least, inspection, cleaning, deoxit, checking the power supply and bias. Many players tend to not have this done with solid state amps. Professional applications do.

I don’t know of any amp manufacturer that lays out a maintenance schedule. Marketing would object.

IME, except for a very occasional cleaning, most solid state do not need maintenance. Especially true regarding DeOxit, which can ultimately be the cause of problems when used more than a few times on a pot.

 

[baxter_x]

regarding DeOxit, which can ultimately be the cause of problems when used more than a few times on a pot.

That reminds me a several years ago when I decided to clean all the pots on my Mesa Titan V12 with this great product. Great idea! I ended up having to change ALL the pots as they became simply unusable!
First time and last time with this thing.

 

[beans-on-toast]

That reminds me a several years ago when I decided to clean all the pots on my Mesa Titan V12 with this great product. Great idea! I ended up having to change ALL the pots as they became simply unusable!
First time and last time with this thing.

It is important to use very little and only when necessary. Only treat the pots that need it.

 

[agedhorse]

That reminds me a several years ago when I decided to clean all the pots on my Mesa Titan V12 with this great product. Great idea! I ended up having to change ALL the pots as they became simply unusable!
First time and last time with this thing.

Yup, for those who are convinced that “miracle cure-all spray” is harmless and will fix all problems (as some on the internet promote), there is another costly side to this that I see all too often. That’s an expensive exercise on the Titan too!

 

[agedhorse]

It is important to use very little and only when necessary. Only treat the pots that need it.

That’s not maintenance, and most pots can go their entire lifetime without it.

 

[Zak TMD]

That’s not exactly a secret. And tube amp fans don’t really care all that much.

This is a fact right here. Look, having a point to point wired tube driven amp, I know my tubes will fry and probably other bits over the years / hours of play, making it a way less reliable piece of equipment than a straight class D solid state amp. I also know that the reality of difference in tone matters about 0% to a non-musician audience member. I'm at piece with all that. I have a class D backup (with tube pres tho).

My takeaway from this thread is that basically, NOS are not worth the cost differential from new production tubes - even with the current cost increases. I sort of had an inkling of that coming in, after my guitarist purchased a full set of NOS EL34s and one of them fried in the first 3 hours (even though that's a single experience), but I was curious about the consensus here.

In terms of the reliability factor, EVEN if new builds and NOS fail at approximately the same rate (and I trust @agedhorse 's ample experience here, so that's likely not the case) I don't see the value in paying 3+ times the cost for slight difference of tonal color. Since my original question was "is it worth it at this point" the answer seems to be no. Granted, that's just for me - if you love NOS, use them. No one cares.

 

[Zak TMD]

They seem to care a little bit more right now. The cost to re-tube an SVT might cause a weakness of heart in a player.

This is actually becoming an issue for some players, $500 for a re-tube represents a lot of gigs for a non-pro player.

Yea, I feel lucky that I may only need 4 6550s at the moment, though I am also lucky enough to be able to afford them. ~ $200 isn't too big a deal, but it's got me thinking maybe I should lean on my backup head a little more... If I was making a living from playing music, I'd have to reevaluate completely what my gear layout would have to be - big ol' tube heads would probably be relegated to recording only.

 

[baxter_x]

That’s an expensive exercise on the Titan too!

In the end that was "fine". I bought all the pots new. Removed the old ones and set up the new ones.

 

[beans-on-toast]

IME, except for a very occasional cleaning, most solid state do not need maintenance. Especially true regarding DeOxit, which can ultimately be the cause of problems when used more than a few times on a pot.

Agree with not using it on pots unless called for. Metal to metal contacts such as jacks can have oxidation that need inspection and attention if necessary. Internal cable connectors should be inspected for proper seating. That sort of thing.

Professional rental companies generally have staff that have equipment maintenance schedules. They don’t wait for problems to present themself. One place that deals with broadcast equipment breaks down and ensures that specifications are met when it comes back. Even cables are assigned a service life and are inspected on a schedule. All this is clearly expensive and out of the ordinary for many applications but some find this level of attention necessary.

 

[agedhorse]

I generally see more problems caused by “maintenance” than simply leaving well enough alone.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

That reminds me a several years ago when I decided to clean all the pots on my Mesa Titan V12 with this great product. Great idea! I ended up having to change ALL the pots as they became simply unusable!
First time and last time with this thing.

What cleaner did you use?
Not all cleaners are created equal.
I had a stereo with a dirty volume pot. The cleaner I had originally was an off brand. It didn't harm the pot but it didn't fix the problem either. Got some De-Oxit, problem solved.

 

[baxter_x]

What cleaner did you use?
Not all cleaners are created equal.
I had a stereo with a dirty volume pot. The cleaner I had originally was an off brand. It didn't harm the pot but it didn't fix the problem either. Got some De-Oxit, problem solved.

I don't remember what brand it was.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Agree with not using it on pots unless called for. Metal to metal contacts such as jacks can have oxidation that need inspection and attention if necessary. Internal cable connectors should be inspected for proper seating. That sort of thing.

Professional rental companies generally have staff that have equipment maintenance schedules. They don’t wait for problems to present themself. One place that deals with broadcast equipment breaks down and ensures that specifications are met when it comes back. Even cables are assigned a service life and are inspected on a schedule. All this is clearly expensive and out of the ordinary for many applications but some find this level of attention necessary.

I suppose, in cases where rental equipment has programmable operator settings, that part of the after rental equipment check involves resetting to factory settings. Just one more thing to do in this day and age.

 

[beans-on-toast]

I suppose, in cases where rental equipment has programmable operator settings, that part of the after rental equipment check involves resetting to factory settings. Just one more thing to do in this day and age.

Yes but while it is out of their hands, they have no control over how it was used. They do what is necessary to ensure that it is working next time it goes out. Often they will transport the equipment to the site and set it up, then break it down after the show.