Without Time What Else Matters?

[Flatwoundround]

Our drummer does not have good timing. Therefore I am the band's timekeeper and he uses me as his metronome if you will (our band = drums, bass, guitar, and vocals with harmonica).

Sometimes I get annoyed because I cannot work my fills and need to simplify my lines to keep the drummer from marching to his very own beat.

But lately I have been thinking this might be a blessing in disguise because I have worked so hard on getting rock solid time. Here is what I do to achieve it:

Set metronome at one fourth the song tempo and play song and make sure I hit downbeat on the click (of course I am talking about 4/4 time signatures here but can be used for other sigs). I cannot tell you how good this drill has done for me. Also I play with a really great jazz drummer and tell him to just go solo and I hold it down - same thing with my guitar player - so that I am the only rhythmic instrument holding down the groove while they solo madly, this is not very easy to do.

Also consider this:

Victor Wooten says often times he hears players who cannot play in time when playing alone.

Carol Kaye says the most important factor that determines a good bass player is having good time (not technique or alot of theory knowledge.

A pro Jazz drummer I know says you would be surprised how many high level musicians cannot keep time without the help of a drummer.


So maybe me just working relentlessly on building excellent timing as opposed to wicked chops is not such a bad thing. It is like the basketball player that plays good defense and gets rebounds as opposed to scoring a lot of points.

What do you guys think about this topic in general? Every time I go to Guitar Center there is always some guy trying to play slap bass but it sounds bad because he is not playing in time (of course the really great guys like Wooten are not in Guitar Center).

 

[mellowinman]

I think it is what separates the amateurs from the pros.

 

[lfmn16]

So maybe me just working relentlessly on building excellent timing as opposed to wicked chops is not such a bad thing.

There is no reason you can't have both.

 

[dalkowski]

Our drummer does not have good timing.

Then your band has a significant problem. You and he should have the best timing in the band. Sounds like you're there — kudos to you for making lemonade. Until he gets there, he's a liability.

 

[xgator4u]

Timing is everything.
We are an significant part of
the rhythm section.

Rhythm:
movement or procedure with uniform or patterned recurrence of a beat, accent, or the like.

 

[madbanjoman]

I play in a trio, two tenor banjos and me on bass. This arrangement initially made me nervous as I was used to playing in rock bands with a drummer to lock with. I think my timing has become rock solid as result of having to be ever mindful of it, rather then regulate it to the drummer. One thing I use is a metronome app for my phone that will lower or mute the volume at set intervals so that you have to keep the timing without hearing the click consistently. It is a big help for working on maintaining your timing. We do one song where on the third time through, the rhythm banjo only plays on two and four and I only play on one and three while the lead banjo is improvising. It gives a lovely sense of space to his improve. It requires both of us to feel the pulse perfectly.

 

[Ralph Notoro]

Many years ago, an old teacher told me "You can play the wrong notes, but if they're grooving, people will still dance. Play the right notes out of time and they'll stop."

He was right.

 

[RDUB]

And the worst and hardest thing is playing with a drummer with bad time.

 

[INTP]

And the worst and hardest thing is playing with a drummer with bad time.

or when they have bad time but THINK they have good time.

To the OP, if it causes you to practice more to work on your time, then that's great. I am not sure how long it will be of benefit to be the metronome when playing with the drummer. Also, if you're putting the click on the downbeat on 4/4, try moving it around, e.g. on the 3rd beat, then the 2nd, then the 4th, etc. Then add 8th notes (and of 1, etc.) Humbling but useful.

 

[Space Pickle]

Nothing else matters!

amirite

 

[dalkowski]

And the worst and hardest thing is playing with a drummer with bad time.

I would almost rather chew glass. I mean, it doesn't say "Rolex" on my face — I consider myself pretty tight, but I know I'm not perfect. I guess I was fortunate to play with good drummers when I was a kid, so my expectation is high, but reasonable (I think).

 

[RDUB]

Some times I think mine is unreasonable!

As INTP said, working with a metronome on other beats is very helpful. Getting used to feeling the pulse on 2 and 4 will really punch up your feel for funk...

 

[ddnidd1]

Playing with a solid sense of timing is essential for Any Reasonable Proficient Player, regardless of the instrument .

Its even more important for a drummer. If his main responsibility isn't keeping Solid Time, what is his main responsibility? He's not playing chords and he's not playing melodic lines (and yes drums are tuned). Its all about rhythm, which is based on Solid time. If the time drifts, the rhythm drifts and changes.