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Woman Profiled on 9/11

If Turkey is becoming less Islamic why have sales of Mein Kempf exploded there? And for the record it is a best seller through out the Arab world.../QUOTE]


Although Turks are not Semitic, I have always thought that calling Arabs Anti-Semitic was silly since they are just as much a Semtic people as Jews.

How on earth is Mein Kampf Islamic? It may be symptomatic of a dislike Jews, but Hitler has nothing to do with the faith of Islam.

Of course I know that Arabs are Semitic people also. :eyebrow:

In all sincerity, that's a pretty sloppy arguement for an teacher to make, and a bit disapointing. Anti-Semitism was first coined as a description of hatred directed to the Jewish people at the turn of the twentieth century. To try to change the meaning of mutially agreed on terms throughout history is childish to say the least. No one with any basic knowledge of language would argue that point and to do so seems to imply a bit of denial of the oldest hatred in history.

The reason Mein Kempf has renewed popularity in the Arab world is obvious. Extremism in the Arab world has been on the rise and blaming the Jews for their troubles has been a staple of Islamic fundamentalism. While Hitler wasn't associated with Islam he is praised by many fundimentalist. Arrafats cousin and the first leader of the Palestinians was huge fan and ally of the third Reich.
 
Aborgman The Daily Beast is gargbage of the World Net Daily level.

I don't read the Enquirer either.

Typical, and disappointing.

Today the Dailey Beast linked to Newsweek, the Wash Post, NY Times, Atlantic Monthly, and New Republic. I suppose their all garbage too?:rollno:

Who do you accept as a source?

Just wondering?:hiding:
 
burk48237 said:
If your reference is to Muslims in the US it is certainly correct. But in much of the Arab world what is taught is that everything is connected to Islam, and that the source of all their problems is the Wests and the Jews "war" with Islam. Many of the Egyptians who had a problem with Muburek complained he was a "puppet of the Jews" the Libyan revolutionaries have made similar statements about Ghadaffi.

I have no problem with Muslim garb being a free choice. I have a big problem with women "choosing" because of fear of beatings or retaliation. The fact that EVERY women graduate from Cairo's largest university choose to wear traditional Muslim garb is indeed troubling. A recent poll of Egypt claimed that a majority of Egyptians believe a) the Jews are responsible for 9/11 b) it was a great Muslim victory, (how anyone with a brain can reconcile these positions is beyond me.:D) c) that OBL is still alive.

If Turkey is becoming less Islamic why have sales of Mein Kempf exploded there? And for the record it is a best seller through out the Arab world.

Mein Kampf sales soar in Turkey | World news | The Guardian

Invalid Link Removed

I hope Turkey and the rest of the Islamic world is becoming less extreme, but frankly I doubt it. I just don't see evidence of it in Turkeys foreign policy (continued support of Syria) or the anecdotal stories of the rise of extremism in the rural parts of the country. But I think at best it's a mixed bag. And sadly in most of the Arab world the regimes have had a devils bargain with extremist that has left them in charge of most of the educational and cultural institutions.

Burke, "extreme" in your mind means they don't see the Middle East your way. As for Arabs being fed bad information, I'm sure you believe some distortions too. So do I for that matter.
 
. Arrafats cousin and the first leader of the Palestinians was huge fan and ally of the third Reich.

So were a large number of proto-Israel Jewish Zionists.

On the basis of these considerations, and upon the condition that the German Reich government recognize the national aspirations of the Israel Freedom Movement mentioned above, the NMO(Lehi) in Palestine offers to actively take part in the war on the side of Germany.
 
Ummm... not even close to the oldest in history.

Islam didn't even exist until ~600AD.

We've got recorded history of hatred between Egyptians and Nubians going back a couple THOUSAND years before Islam even existed.

I didn't claim that hatred between the Jews and the Islam was the oldest in History. I claimed that anti-Semitism was and I'll stand by it. I'll readily admit that anti-Semitism goes back way before the founding of Islam and certainly is in no way confined to Islam. The first planned recorded attempt at ethnic cleansing was about two thousand years before Christ in Namens time.

If you want to get an idea of it, I'd suggest you check out "a Lethal Obcession" by Wistrich. It traces the history of Anti-Semitism through antiquity to modern times all 1100 + pages of it.
 
Burke, disagree with me all you want but don't call me silly or childish.

Well, your argument didn't deal with any of the serious facts I presented and in fact it seemed to trivialize them. Remember during the Gaza action by Israel there were protestors in the streets of several major European (by the thousands) and one American City chanting "Jews to the Ovens".:rolleyes:

Wether you disagree or not with Israels politics isn't the issue, they weren't talking about Israelis, they were talking about Jews. :rollno:

Did we really forget in less than one generation? Real anti-Semitism is serious stuff and it's on the rise. Not coincidently so is Islamic extremism. It's not trivial. Having said that I do see some good signs and certainly the Islamic community in the US had assimilated and adapted to the country very well for the most part. And it certainly appears that the Iranian people have grown tiered of their brand of extremism.
 
Oh, and for the record I do have problems with the way the authorities handled this case. While they certainly should act on multiple complaints on a day when they have credible threats. Once it was established that the parties in question had no bomb making materials or weapons to continue to hold them for any period of time or treat them as "suspects" was wrong. Having said that, the girl is still too Emo for me.
 
No, not at all. I'm actually enjoying the conversation to be honest.

To just repeat myself, I'm not even really debating what you say on Islam either way because I truly do not know. It sounds a bit like "paranoia" to me but since I haven't studied it in detail, I really can't say for sure. But that's not my point. My point is simply that to understand the "big picture" - what's led to our recent history, you have to look beyond one aspect.
Not doing so is incredibly shortsighted and even a bit dangerous.
I can understand the paranoia label, but it's based on unfounded fears. Remember, I decided that if there was going to be such a battle as we now see in this thread over what islam was, then I was going to do my homework and find out if we were okay, or if there was anything to it more than rhetoric.

I don't think I'm going to change anyone's minds here, but hope that anyone arguing in defense of islam as a peaceful religion, much like any other, please do some research, and pick sources both for and against and see what they have to back them and, and how they form their arguments.
 
If Turkey is becoming less Islamic why have sales of Mein Kempf exploded there?

Now you're showing the difficulty of viewing from a distance. Yes, "Mein Kampf" did (briefly) hit the bestseller list in Turkey; and yes, this did cause some consternation and soul-searching in the popular press. However, and without being able to profile everyone buying the wretched thing, the general consensus in Turkey itself was that it was mostly the far-right ultra nationalist secularists who were buying it. These are people as far removed from Islamic fundamentalists as it's possible to get.

Incidentally, "The Other Boleyn Girl", "Bridget Jones' Diary" and "The God Delusion" were also big bestsellers in Turkey (and for longer), what does that prove? The current number one is a family drama written by a feminist journalist. Is Turkey becoming more neurotically atheist and feminist with a penchant for Tudor history? You might ask, and with better cause.

Perhaps, even, the people who bought "Mein Kampf" did it for the same reason I did: idle curiosity and the ability to possess something that was forbidden for so long.

Turkeys foreign policy (continued support of Syria) or the anecdotal stories of the rise of extremism in the rural parts of the country.

Given that Turkey was one of the first countries to call on Assad to step down and hold democratic elections, I don't think the first part of that argument holds up particularly well. Secondly "anecdotal stories", really?
 
I was going to do my homework and find out if we were okay, or if there was anything to it more than rhetoric.

As a Western atheist living in a Muslim country, perhaps I can reassure you: yes, you're okay. There isn't a giant Muslim horde lurking below the horizon, eagerly waiting for the day you let your guard down. Radical Islamists tend to be more isolationist anyway. The stated objective of Al Kaide is not to invade the West, but to remove Western influence from the Middle East. The first thing the Taliban did was close the borders, as did the Iranian Revolutionaries.

I don't think I'm going to change anyone's minds here, but hope that anyone arguing in defense of islam as a peaceful religion, much like any other, please do some research.

I don't regard any religion as peaceful (with the exception of Zen Buddhism, but that's more of a philosophy), there is a fair amount of superiority and self-justification for aggression in all of them. But you seem to believe that Islam is somehow uniquely able to influence people in a way that other religions can not. Again, the vast majority of Muslims are in no way different to the vast majority of believers in other faiths and atheists: they go about their day worrying about their job, school, relationship, that funny noise the car has started to make, why Windows has crashed again at the bank; and are just trying to get on and make do as best they can. The actions of a minority of extremists should not be used to incite prejudice against the much, much larger group.

I'll say it again: you (not you personally - you as "Westerners") are going to be okay because you do not generally appear in the thoughts of the vast majority of Muslims, even radical ones, in any way, shape or form. You are just not that important. Your chances of encountering a demented Al Kaide terrorist are way, way lower than your chances of meeting your end at the hands of a drunk driver. Behave accordingly.
 
As a Western atheist living in a Muslim country, perhaps I can reassure you: yes, you're okay. There isn't a giant Muslim horde lurking below the horizon, eagerly waiting for the day you let your guard down. Radical Islamists tend to be more isolationist anyway. The stated objective of Al Kaide is not to invade the West, but to remove Western influence from the Middle East. The first thing the Taliban did was close the borders, as did the Iranian Revolutionaries.

I don't regard any religion as peaceful (with the exception of Zen Buddhism, but that's more of a philosophy), there is a fair amount of superiority and self-justification for aggression in all of them. But you seem to believe that Islam is somehow uniquely able to influence people in a way that other religions can not. Again, the vast majority of Muslims are in no way different to the vast majority of believers in other faiths and atheists: they go about their day worrying about their job, school, relationship, that funny noise the car has started to make, why Windows has crashed again at the bank; and are just trying to get on and make do as best they can. The actions of a minority of extremists should not be used to incite prejudice against the much, much larger group.

I'll say it again: you (not you personally - you as "Westerners") are going to be okay because you do not generally appear in the thoughts of the vast majority of Muslims, even radical ones, in any way, shape or form. You are just not that important. Your chances of encountering a demented Al Kaide terrorist are way, way lower than your chances of meeting your end at the hands of a drunk driver. Behave accordingly.
I believe that your view is based mainly upon what you see with your eyes, which like the description of the elephant by the blind men, is not inaccurate, and at any rate is what you truly believe.
The thing that you don't understand is how islam works and that contrary to your comparisons with other religions, violence in the name of religion is a deliberate misinterpretation and you'd have a very hard time finding any justification for violence of any sort in the new testament of the bible, which displaces the old testament as the path to follow.
Exactly the opposite with the Koran, which followed in chronological order leads one from a peaceful and inward looking approach during the years before military supremacy, is replaced with the concept of jihad, which is to be put aside anytime military supremacy is not held, only to be revived again once the time appears to be right.
All of this is easy to research, and you take the sources you feel that you're able to vet and read what they have to say. I didn't respond to your post above to Burk because you made me think and when I read fresh input I like to reexamine my own views to see if I need to do any adjustments in order to stay honest with myself about what I've compiled mentally so far.
I'm glad that you're doing well, but hope that you'll keep growing and do the same from time to time - hold your views dear, but with all of your intellect to fall back on, question your beliefs when faced with new input.
If you come out unchanged, then you can feel your convictions all the more confidently, and if you do change your view from time to time, you can also gain confidence in your honesty and feel relief that your thinking is not set in concrete.
These things I do on a regular basis, and any who suggest that I've found what I wanted to find have no idea how far from the truth that falls.