You can speed the aging process up by fuming, but even then I think you have to plan for color change. I know when i had my instrument built that was one of the considerations for the binding: trying to find something that would look good even if the wood darkens considerably.
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Wood choices and considerations
- Thread starter mrperkolator
- Start date
Yeah the place is about 20 miles from me, so I was hoping to talk to the owner to see how it is holding up, and what exactly it's made of. And if he's on TB tell him to join in on this thread.
Fuming... interesting. Does it change the properties of the wood as it brings tannin to the surface? I had to read about it, because at first I thought it was similar to how the Shillelagh is finished traditionally in chimneys.
OOOOOO.....pot knobs made from blackthorn wood finished like a shillelagh.... all uneven and knobby would look interesting.
has anyone used mulberry?
fun fact... on the wood-database website it say's it's similar to black locust, and that black locust is "highly fluorescent under a blacklight." Black locust just peaked my interest again...
fun fact... on the wood-database website it say's it's similar to black locust, and that black locust is "highly fluorescent under a blacklight." Black locust just peaked my interest again...
"Highly fluorescent" isn't quite as interesting as it sounds. The wood gets a kinda boring dull greenish glow under a strong black light. It is certainly useful to ID black locust compared to other similar wood (which doesn't glow at all), but I wouldn't build with it in the hopes of featuring the glow in the final product. It would be easier and more effective to just use a glowy finish or other glow product.
I have built bows from red mulberry. it was a nice wood to work, and very strong
I haven’t seen any of them in decades though so couldn’t say how it ages
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I don't think fuming changes the properties. My luthier is well respected and put a lot of thought into the instrument. I don't think he would have done it if he thought it changed the sound. Especially since this was an acoustic instrument and there is less controversy about tone wood.
I wasn't saying it changed it in a bad way. Torrification seems to be helpful in stabilizing the wood. I was just wondering if it changed the wood at all, or if it was in fact purely cosmetic
My ears perked up when I heard about fuming with ammonia recently, because it sounds very simple and easy. But, I believe it was @Beej that said he tried it and it only darkens the outer surface. Sands right off.
If that's the case, I don't think it would help me.
If that's the case, I don't think it would help me.
You do it post sanding, pre-finishing. And how well it works depends on the wood (or the tannins in the wood?) It's a classic oak coloring process.
My problem is I fuss and fiddle up to the last moment. I'd be worried I'd notice something that needed attention after it was fumed.
That's what I found, however I also was fuming by having it in a tray underneath a plastic storage box set up on the floor of my shed, and only fumed for a couple of days. To quote @Gilmourisgod it was "wicked pissah dahk", but it did sand and scrape back off pretty easily. This could have been my method though. I think it would work on small pieces that you don't need to sand/scrape after darkening, but I didn't spend much more time with it when the home roasting process worked so well with so much less effort.
Sure, the processes I've used vary with how punky the wood is, but generally it's about stabilizing it enough to seal it all up and give a little stability to the top. I've used driftwood that is quite hard and is basically just spalted wood and at the other extreme, stuff that is really soft and punky with lots of rot, worm-holes and missing bits.
First off is making sure it's well dry throughout as that goes a long way to keeping things inert. Driftwood is quite a bit different from regular spalted wood, as being in the ocean over time seems to strip away all of the resins and intracellular moisture, but then soaks it through with lots of intercellular moisture. I've found that an 8/4 driftwood billet can go from soaking wet on the beach to bone dry all the way through in about 6 weeks when in a heated shop. I used to wait until they were completely dry, then soak in a lot of clear penetrating epoxy sealer (there are a few brands, it's highly viscous like water and soaks in pretty deep, up to around 5mm on some pieces). The issue I found with that approach is that the wood would cup, crack etc and change some shape. Not as much as green wood aging mind you, but still enough that my billets would lose their rectangular dimensions. I've switched over to PC Petrifier Wood Hardener which is a urethane polymer product and is compatible with resins and finishes like epoxy, CA and both water and solvent based polyurethanes that many of us use. As I type that though, there is a new System Three product I just picked up and the guy was really gushing about it at my supplier, so I'm going to give it a shot. It's their version of a CPES and it dries harder than PC Petrifier. I forget the name already.
After it's dry and ready, I sand it flat and then soak it in epoxy (most driftwoods). For the really really punky one I did last year, I told myself that next time, I'll harden the whole thing with CA glue as it gets harder and machines a little better than epoxy. Both sides need to be completely covered so that when the top gets glued on you don't have anything exposed to the air inside the body. The exterior will get sealed up under finish, but keeping it all sealed up I think is important. Once I have the top at the final shape, I go around the whole thing and ensure every little bit is sealed up really well everywhere. Then finish and enjoy.
Another note, leave your PVA and aliphatic resin wood glues on the shelf, they don't have a place in this kind of work. (Titebond, white glue, yellow carpenter's glue). They won't bond to the epoxy (and vice versa) and don't have enough penetrating ability or strength to be reliably used with really punky woods. I think I probably blather more about things I've found that worked and don't work in my build threads.
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Back in the Day, the diazo printing machines used at the Architectural firms I worked at used Anhydrous Ammonia as a developer for blueprints. Same stuff most people use for fuming oak. That stuff is just violently toxic. We had a machine with a leaking ammonia connection that hit me hard, like somebody shoving a match up your nose. I probably should have gone to the hospital, but thought I was Immortal in my 20's. I dont think ordinary diluted cleaning ammonia is strong enough, but maybe it works if you leave it long enough. If you use Anhydrous, which works splendidly, you need a full-face powered respirator. I am not kidding, this stuff can Kill you.
Yes ammonia is very dangerous. There are special precautions used on Ammonia chiller systems in HVAC. Definitely keep safety in mind.
seems a bit dangerous if there is no benefit to the wood itself. I'd rather use a dye and not worry about ammonia.
seems a bit dangerous if there is no benefit to the wood itself. I'd rather use a dye and not worry about ammonia.
I think the benefit is on thin pieces like a back and sides would be made out of, you can get full penetration of the wood. Also on something with lots of crevices, you can more easily get full "coverage". But you are correct, it's not risk free. But neither are many things in wood working.
Anhydrous is not "normal" though I'm sure some folks might use it. Household strength (5-10%) will work slowly, 28-30% is common (and sounds like what I recall using for blueprints in a "less industrial" setting, vapor-method.) Most furniture fuming advice involves making a "tent" outside for doing it.
They seem to get pretty dark results on a lot of videos i watched. This video they guy cuts some sample pieces and you can see pretty deep penetration. I think the utility is definitely dependent on the wood species and the shape.
Useful for oak. Not useful for maple. More useful for an intricate carve. Less useful for a slab body.
Has anyone tried Shou sugi ban? if so, what's your thoughts on wood choice, and the process? (I'm trying to keep this thread alive...)
