After reading some of his posts.... I really think @Bruce Johnson could add to this conversation.
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Wood choices and considerations
- Thread starter mrperkolator
- Start date
He’s a Busy Dude! I occasionally shoot off a proverbial flare in his general direction, hoping he’ll weigh in, but he Does this as a profession, bigger fish to fry, so to speak.
When he does, I'm sure it'll be interesting. I started this thread to get people with knowledge like his to talk about wood as it relates to bass. So I'll eagerly wait like one does for the Fedex truck on NBD.
Here's one... a stick dipped in it. The effect is shallow, but you can get it a little deeper with longer soak, and oiling helps.
I have worked with Butternut a little. Not a hickory; it's Walnut's lighter and softer brother. Density and hardness is in the neighborhood of Alder, Basswood and Poplar, but I think the grain is more attractive.
For that, I think there are better sources of raw material than a wood that is already strong, hard, and beautiful (IMO). Flax, for instance.
I haven't posted these in here yet, but I've done some experimentation with "roasting" woods in my oven. They are burnt, really. That said, you get a really nice colour change with some woods. These fretboards are all home roasted walnut.
They look a lot like rosewood in person. Or like a chocolate brown ebony. They are much more brittle than usual walnut and so they work more like something like say pau ferro. It works well with lots of species - I have some sapele test pieces that look good too. I've mostly used walnut and roasted cherry in builds because I try to use domestic (to me) species and also found or repurposed woods. The home roasting process is a good way to get something exotic looking from cheap timbers.
They look a lot like rosewood in person. Or like a chocolate brown ebony. They are much more brittle than usual walnut and so they work more like something like say pau ferro. It works well with lots of species - I have some sapele test pieces that look good too. I've mostly used walnut and roasted cherry in builds because I try to use domestic (to me) species and also found or repurposed woods. The home roasting process is a good way to get something exotic looking from cheap timbers.
They look a lot like rosewood in person. Or like a chocolate brown ebony. They are much more brittle than usual walnut and so they work more like something like say pau ferro. It works well with lots of species - I have some sapele test pieces that look good too. I've mostly used walnut and roasted cherry in builds because I try to use domestic (to me) species and also found or repurposed woods. The home roasting process is a good way to get something exotic looking from cheap timbers.
I really like the headstock on the last one. How's it's tuning stability and tone? Sorry if I've asked before....
Thanks, I'm pleased with it too.
Tone, I can't tell. There are too many factors for me to be able to isolate how it might impact the tone. The strings aren't really at any more of a breakover angle than my usual 6 degreeish headstocks, so I'm not sure if it would be remarkably different if I could tell. 
For tuning stability, it's pretty good, but I'd chalk that up to the tuner quality more than anything. This one has a combination of real Gotoh GB707s and cheap knockoffs. The Gotohs are really stable and the knockoffs not so much. I'd say there's a bit more than usual air drying processes, but it's hard to know for sure. There's a lot of cupping, warping and twisting, but it happens all in one day rather than over years as things dry out. Whether it's more than air dried stuff, I don't really know. They definitely shrink a bit in all dimensions. Enough that I can only get two fretboards out of a 4/4 block rather than three like normal. I usually roast 3/4 stuff and can always get two boards out of that.@Beej have you found that your home roasting process creates more twisting/cupping of the wood than normal drying processes?
Any idea how much additional waste is created by using this method?
Also, which smells better when roasting, maple or walnut?
One nice thing is that they become really dimensionally stable after roasting and once you've milled the final shape, it doesn't change. You know how you can cut a piece of wood and it can curve in the process as tensions in the grain equalize? That never happens with the roasted stuff, it's completely stable. This has been the case with every species I've tried, so I'm chalking it up to the process. Very nice for building and reducing surprises.
Smell? They all smell the same... like a fire in your house. No two ways about it.
I'd say there's a bit more than usual air drying processes, but it's hard to know for sure. There's a lot of cupping, warping and twisting, but it happens all in one day rather than over years as things dry out. Whether it's more than air dried stuff, I don't really know. They definitely shrink a bit in all dimensions. Enough that I can only get two fretboards out of a 4/4 block rather than three like normal. I usually roast 3/4 stuff and can always get two boards out of that.
One nice thing is that they become really dimensionally stable after roasting and once you've milled the final shape, it doesn't change. You know how you can cut a piece of wood and it can curve in the process as tensions in the grain equalize? That never happens with the roasted stuff, it's completely stable. This has been the case with every species I've tried, so I'm chalking it up to the process. Very nice for building and reducing surprises.
Smell? They all smell the same... like a fire in your house. No two ways about it.
If you can get 2 fret boards out of a 3/4 board, that's good enough for me! I've got a few chunks I've wanted to try roasting; as you said, "reducing surprises"!
I was hoping you would say the maple smelled like maple syrup...
saw some rather large trees cut down out of people's yards lately. Probably oak. Wished I had a way to get it to one of you here. I'd probably make several beautiful basses.
I'm sorry to say it, but I'm simply tired of writing about the subject of how wooden bass frames affect the sound of an electric bass. I've written countless pages about it over the years here on TalkBass. But there's an endless stream of threads asking if and how the wood makes any difference in the sound. And every thread brings out waves of people who want to argue endlessly about it. They deeply believe that the sound of an electric bass is all strings and pickups. No amount of rational discussion of engineering and testing will change their minds. I've tried my best, and I'm outnumbered and tired of arguing.
The sad reality is that, to the majority of bass players/owners, the sound of their instruments is all in turning knobs on their electronic gear. They don't listen to or care about the sound of the bass itself. Builders like myself, who concentrate on making our basses have a beautiful inherent sound through a clean amp, are a small niche part of the bass market. We have our little crowd of customers who appreciate our basses. I'm happy with that, and I'm tired of trying to change the minds of the masses.
I'm sorry that people want to argue the topic. I wish the conversation was more like it is on the classical guitar forums. Basically, "Thank you for your opinion and contribution." I honestly don't think your opponents understand that you do more than just pick maple for the neck and make it out of the first piece of maple you come across.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of the conflict comes from threads like this attracting far more people who are interested in being seen as the expert than people who are interested in learning or discussing openly. That's a recipe for disaster no matter the topic.
Yes, seems so. But my favorite way to play my bass is unplugged, with my chin resting on the upper horn. Unfortunately, I've never found an amplified sound to equal that, but that's what I shoot for.
I think it's the specific "how" that people are confused and argue about. It seems like a difficult and complicated subject to explain and most people just want to be in one camp or the other. It either makes a difference or it doesn't but it's not one or the other and it's not that simple.
One of my gripes is when, for example, a builder makes a mistake in a neck pocket and adds a block of some exotic wood as an aesthetic fix. Then proceeds to call it a "tone block"(tongue in cheek). Now, people misunderstand how it works and think it's like a sound card or a tone pot, as if swapping out the "tone block" would affect the sound of the bass.
It's the, "yes, the type of wood makes a difference, but not exactly the way you think" conversations that are difficult.
I can only imagine the frustration of having decades of hands-on experience and trying to help folks by sharing your experience,...just to have dozens of drive-by one liner posts by people who have nothing to ask or contribute, or worse, be insulted and argued with by someone who doesn't have a fraction of your experience and little more than a year of sitting in a classroom and listening to a professor regurgitate other people's theories.
I just hope this crap doesn't discourage you to the point that you stop participating because there are probably still more people that appreciate your input than there are blowhard know-it-alls who are just here for a pissing contest.
Sorry it’s like that, Bruce. I do understand. I stay out of the “tonewood” threads because I have my opinions and I know better then to think I’ll change too many other peoples opinions. There’s a few other subjects that seem to come up in the electronics and repair forums that bring out the Zealots as well and I typically ignore the thread or bust out the popcorn and wait for the ban hammer.
FWIW, I know I’m nothing special but I do appreciate the knowledge and experience you share here. There’s you and some of the other builders here and a handful of YouTube builders that make me rethink and up my game on what little I manage to do. Long way of saying thanks to you and the LC regulars.
After participating in a few, I think this will also be my strategy from now on.
It's weird, it makes me wonder if a lot of people have certain words tagged, or however that works, so that whenever it's mentioned, they get notified. Seems like certain subjects pop up and members who almost never post in the LC come out of the woodwork. Is that a thing? Can you pick certain words to be alerted on if they come up?
I don't know if you can be alerted to certain words, but most of the tonewood threads very quickly get enough posts to end up on the "hot" list right on the home page - and it's pretty obvious that lots of talkbass users just watch that hot list and click into topics from it. So, as soon as a tonewood thread gets posted, it hits that list, and you get drive-bys and posts from people who look for topics they can argue about.
