Double Bass wooden endpins

[The Bass Hog]

I have made a couple of wooden end pins for clients and they really like them. They give a warmer sound. I am trying a carbon fibre end pin on my bass at the moment and I have made one for a client also. We have discussed them after a couple of months use and both agree that the sound of the bass is improved, can't quite put my finger on why yet but it is something I am working on!

 

[Johnny L]

I've wondered about a wooden bridge adjuster design or maybe even just a two-piece design where one screws into the other...or a pin to slip through holes to lock the pieces together or whatever.

Or it could be a screw-type with wooden "washers" maybe an inch thick or so to lengthen or shorten the endpin. The screw itself could be wood too. This way it could all be nice and tight.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

I finally had the time to run some A-B tests between my usual Gotz 10mm steel endpin rod and the wood peg (with a sharp carbide point) that Rick Williams was kind enough to make for me. At this point, I can only say that there is a definite difference in the sound with the wood peg. Is it better? I don't know yet. The difference seems to have something to do with the overtones of all or most of the individual notes both open and fingered. It appears to me that the wood peg cuts out some of the overtones. Arco does appears to be a little smoother, but Helicore Hybrids are not known as great bowing strings under any circumstances. The pizz sound seems to be a little deader than I'm used to with the steel rod. I'll have to see how this works out when playing through my AMT SB25 mic and Full Circle pickup into an amp on the job instead of alone in my home music room. Right now, I'm undecided.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I tested a loose fitted KC endpin on my Hart 2 weeks ago and now I have the real thing. I had it bored for 1/2" CF which I have a cut-off from my CF endpin to glue in myself.

I tested this one (Wood pin with carbon fiber rod) on both my Gilkes and Hart Bass. The CF endpin I use is also cut short to just clear the block inside. This was by the way 1/2 the weight of the KC unit I just got. Sound difference on carpet, slightly deeper only and no noticeable difference in volume.

I bought a second one for my Martini which has a steel rod. I also have the Rod cut short. Comparing the weight between the KC and the shorter Steel rod I have is .8 ounces difference with the Steel slightly heavier.

Sound difference on the Martini? Slightly deeper on the carpet and again not much if any Volume difference.

These are 3 great master grade basses that are tweaked to the hilt already. Not much room for improvement but this new endpin idea still made all of my Basses sound slightly fuller and deeper.

One one Bass we did test 2 weeks ago, a Germanic 100 year old Bass with a long metal steel rod. This Bass had a noticeable improvement with the KC unit on a hard floor.

Conclusion! On master grade old Basses in their best condition, there is still some room for a tweak here and there. On other Basses from good to not so good, more room for improvements are always there. If you have an Endpin sticking past the Block inside your Bass after the height is adjusted, measure the overhang and cut off the excess. This is 'dead' tone sucking weight.

Bravo to KC for a great new product with custom service and fast turn around... I tip my hat!

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Ken - What was you opinion of the wood endpin when playing pizz? I thought my bass sounded a little better for arco, but I don't believe I care for it as much as my old Gotz steel endpin rod for pizz. Since I play mostly pizz, I probably won't be using it on the jazz jobs.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Ken - What was you opinion of the wood endpin when playing pizz? I thought my bass sounded a little better for arco, but I don't believe I care for it as much as my old Gotz steel endpin rod for pizz. Since I play mostly pizz, I probably won't be using it on the jazz jobs.

Well, between the 3 cannons I tested (Martini, Gilkes and Hart) I didn't notice much other than maybe the same added depth from the Bowing tests.

If it's edge clarity you want then perhaps a trimmed length Gotz Steel like in my Martini may be better for you.

For me, I just set-up the Bass and play all styles that come up. I don't fuss with it after. If I want a better this or a better that, I pick the Bass that works best for that purpose.

I have a jazz gig on Sunday and will use my Bisach labeled bass with a pickup and small Amp. The night before I have a big Orchestra concert and will be using the Martini which is my darkest sounding Bass.

The Gilkes is on Holiday in my rack and the restored Hart is my in-office practice Bass. This way I get to break it in without breaking it up..lol

In Orchestra rehearsal tonight the Martini sounded noticeably louder to me using it without the rubber tip with the spike in the carpet.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Well, between the 3 cannons I tested (Martini, Gilkes and Hart) I didn't notice much other than maybe the same added depth from the Bowing tests.

If it's edge clarity you want then perhaps a trimmed length Gotz Steel like in my Martini may be better for you.

That's interesting. On my main bass, the wood endpin (with carbide tip & no rubber tip) seems to actually take something away from pizz sound. I'm now wondering it this is another one of those cases like with bridge adjusters where a particular type (brass, ebony, aluminum, etc) sounds good on one particular bass and not so good on another. When I have time, I'll try it on some of my other basses that have 10mm endpin rods to see if it sounds any different on those.

Before Rick William gave me the wood enpin I would have bet money that it wouldn't make any difference. However, there is no doubt in my mind now that it does. The only question now is if it will make a positive change to your particular bass.

I've been shortening the length of steel endpin rods (like you mentioned on your Martini) for years. I've always done it just to cut down on the weight, but maybe there is an acoustic component to it. (It also may eliminate one potential cause for endpin rattles in the future as the cork wears out.) I'll have to swap in a new uncut rod and see if that makes any difference one way or the other.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Bob, one big difference between the Rod/Screw type endpin and the KC or other similar wood style units is how they 'mounts' to the Bass.

With the KC, the socket sits on the Endpin collar and the screw just holds it in place. With the all wood model there are no screws or metal parts at all. With the Rod type and even the CF ones, the Screw is the actual anchor unlike the KC re-invented version.

I say re-invented because this method was used before we were all born but 'progress' as you would have it introduced the adjustable rod unit.

Today we are all looking for the best tone we can get from our Basses. Back in the old days our 'seniors' would just frown down at out interest and excitement of these gadgets and say "Just play the darn thing!"...(I was young once too..)

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Back in the old days our 'seniors' would just frown down at out interest and excitement of these gadgets and say "Just play the darn thing!"...(I was young once too..)

Oh so true!
Up until the 1950s, there was a company making string instruments in Kansas City named Rodier Bros. They also ran an instrument making school in KC that trained many or most of the old timers around here on the GI Bill after WWII. They were the equivalent 50+ years ago of today's KC Strings. When I was going to high school, the school had several of the Rodier flatback basses and I played on one of them. All the Rodier basses ever made originally came with large all wood endpins with a (tapered) removable peg that they made in their shop. Later, after I got in the luthier business, I removed and replaced many of these old all wood endpins with modern adjustable metal rod endpins over the years. I played and listened to a lot of them before and after and I don't remember there being any difference what so ever. I now wish that I had kept a few of these old Rodier endpins so that I could try them again and see if I would notice any difference today. Of course we were all using gut and (round wire) wrapped gut strings back then and that alone fundamentally changes the sound of basses in general. So here we go again. Stuff that used to be old is now being rediscovered and is new again!

 

[JKincaid]

I got a wood to wood endpin (wood end button/endpin) from K.C. Strings a couple weeks ago and am pretty happy with it.

It wasn't a completely dramatic change but there definately was some warmth added to the sound. The upper range seems to be a little sweeter. Didn't have any effect on my wolf though. The response was pretty much the same though I did tweak the sound post placement a little.

This is more of a wish than a criticism but I wish there was a way to secure the endpin to the button.

All in all, I'd say it was worth the money.

On a side note, I did some before and after recordings in my basement and on stage but accidently deleted them. If anybody's interested I could probably do some more to give people something for comparison.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

I'm going to give the wood peg leg another try over the next few weekends. I'm going to be working in a fairly quiet hotel supper club where I should be able to switch between my old Gotz steel endpin rod and the KC String wood Peg leg on every other set. I'll be using mostly my AMT 25B mic there going into my Series III AI Coda Amp. I will be curious to see if this venue will make a difference in my opinion from that of my initial trials.