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Working with Drummers

#21
i feel for ya,our drummer is just one of the best,he knows just the right volume to play at all times,we bring the volume up and down at the same time just by our attack,i am very fortunate to play with this guy he has played professionally for over 25 yrs,he can tighten it up
peace
frank
 
#23
Originally posted by British

I'm having a hard time coming up with a good analogy that "you bass players" would understand. I can practice my bass in my condo just by turning the volume down as low as it will go. I can slap that thing has hard as I want and nobody will know. There would be no way in hell that I could ever practice my drums at home - no matter how softly I might try to play, I just literally would not be able to move the sticks fast enough from one instrument to the next and still keep an accurate tempo without making SOME noise. Stick control like that is easy to understand but virtually impossible to master.

Anyway, I hope this sheds some light on this issue from "the other side".
Click to expand...

Surely you can put pads on your drum skins to dampen the sound?!
 
#24
I've got a drummer who's a pure joy to work with. Maybe not the best I've played with, technically, but the guy is rock solid, and has an amazing knack for capturing the essence of the song, making him one my all time favorites to work with. He's also very, very loud.

We played a venue awhile back that won't be asking us back. The guy in charge there, who I understand teaches jazz at the local college in that town, kept trying to take me aside to see if I could wield any influence over drum volume. My drummer, reasonable in every other way, shrugged his shoulders and uttered one of his favorite expressions, "it is what it is" in way of explaining that that's just the way he played. And he was right. We are a rock band. His playing is perfect for us, we're not a low-volume act, and we shouldn't change that for the sake of a venue with terrible acoustics and a crowd used to being able to talk over the band. Our compromise with him is to have him use a quieter snare at smaller gigs, and that's fine by me.

Now he gets a real test this weekend. I got a call to do a pickup blues gig and I recruited him to play it with me. I've got my fingers crossed because I don't think he has a lot of blues under his belt, but he's a great 'feel' player and that's what is needed. We'll see if he can trade some of that steady thump for a bit of dynamics and swing... we shall see :)
 
#25
WOW!!!some of us really don't like drummers...I am fortunate enough to play with a drummer who is awsome..timing,dynamics,showmanship(he breathes fire ala Gene Simmons)and most of all open minded.he's got it,and he is brutally loud...but that is just his attack and his Bonzo size kit(18 & 22 in floor toms w\a 26in. bass drum 16 in. deep!!!).he has really good dynamics,can be quiet as a mouse..I would'nt have it any other way...when we get "locked in" it's magic..I could not ever put a drum machine above him,I need the human feel...and as bass players I feel that it is very important to have a good relationship with your drummer because WE drive the band..not all drummers are knuckle-draggin neanderthals..in fact I told the rest of the band that if we ever loose him,I'm the only one who can have the final word on who we hire.but I would most likely leave with him..he is MY drummer...o.k this is startin to sound weird..all I'm sayin is if you find a good one,keep'em
 
#26
Ok my drummer is great, a veteran journeyman of sorts, lots of skillz. Our band is much different than the harder musics he has played in--at least a lot more diverse dynamically and stylistically.

Sometimes he plays with lots of emotion and it sounds great. BUT:

Other times he is way too busy. It's often to the point where I can predict when his fill is coming (which didn't need to be there!).

Another is that he almost ALWAYS follows my bass line to the "T", which, as we all know from bands like Primus can be a cool thing, but when I'm wanting to groove, it would be nice if he would keep a beat and let me keep my syncopation!

While we do a good job a communicating in the band, he can get pretty short sometimes, and this being such a huge criticism, I fear a backlash.

Help me Ruth!
 
#27
[rant]
My drummer's loud, but nothing a set of earplugs can't cure.

My guitarist, on the other hand, has a major problem with the drummer. He always wants to practice at a volume low enough where you don't have to use earplugs...and given that he has super delicate ears (not that he can hear soft things, but anything remotely "loud" and he starts screaming like a baby), his ideal volume is basically the band practicing at normal conversation volume. Now I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't spend all my money on a full stack to practice at a volume my old guitar amp (that I used before I got my stack) could easily reach.

Plus, he wants people to turn down, but forgets to turn himself down enough. And because his tone is completely sh!t (it could get muddier and noisier, and it couldn't have less definition), he needs to turn it up even louder to hear himself. So in response, I have to turn myself up louder, and then it's back to square one, with his whining and ready to throw the guitar across the room because the volume is too loud.

While I do think that the drummer can soften some of his hits (especially the snare), it doesn't bother me, and I just look past it and hope to make practice somewhat productive. The guitarist on the other hand cannot let that go. He doesn't seem to understand why others can't "listen" (i.e.
"obey") to his close-minded opinions/orders. This is the same guy that told me that extended range basses are inferior to 4 strings (and no, he doesn't know Jaco), and that "all the good bassists play very hard and right by the bridge." That's what his bass teacher taught him, and he takes it as a God-given truth.

YARGH.

At first I thought I was lucky to have a guitarist who didn't pose any significant problems, but now the issues are surfacing, and I don't know how much more I can take.
[/rant]
 
#28
Well, I've played with a few drummers, say 15 or so in my lifetime. The few years I've played with 3 consistently and i can honestly say out of all of them only 1 manages to play a reasonable volume.

This is the problem with being completely untrained I think. Same with guitarists - always to freaking loud, it really hacks me off actually and if you say 'maybe we could play a bit quieter' you get the 'got to match to the drum volume' response - to which my gut instinct is 'learn to play the FKN drums then'.

I've told one of my loud bands recently that I'm going to quit if we can't the reduce volume in rehearsals. I know we wont be able to to, because the drummer cant play softly for toffee.

It honestly is my biggest problem with playing rock or heavy music. It's stupid senseless and idiotic and it pisses me off. C'mon then, GRRR! :D
 
#29
ive never seen a drummer like what a few of you have said you have in your band...
my drummer always plays too loud and insists on micing everything and is never ever satisfied with anything...
i am glad however to see that im not the only one going through this problem. our drummer is so frustrating to work with but he is an increadible drummer. he started when he was 4 on a little mickey mouse drumset and has played seriously since. were a metal band so were really fast and hes always showing off and throwing everyone else off tempo. finding a good(not just talent) drummer has to do with luck... pure luck... good luck! heh...
 
#30
I was pretty impressed with the drummer in my band when we first started writing songs. The first song went great! Then I noticed something about the second song we started, and the third. THE DRUM BEAT WAS EXACTALLY THE SAME! The songs weren't really very similar, but the drummer played the exact same thing. Loudness is also an issue with him sometimes, but he has toned down a bit (thanks to certain neighbors who called certain cops who told us about certain noise pollution regulations in his neighborhood.) The same beat thing is getting better too, and he really is a good drummer when it comes to just playing stuff. He just needs to branch out more when he's writing.
 
#32
I just don't think most drummers understand they too have to carry the tune! They have to undertand where the roots are, the melody in order to support properly. A drumkit is an instrument, not a tool just to show off and cram as many hits in a measure as possible. Drummers need to find their purpose and role in every song they play. Sometimes less is more for bassists, this rule applys really to the drummers at times more so than us. Drummers create mood and feel more so than any insturment. If your drummer just pounds and does crazy fills whenever possible what kind of mood or feel is he/she creating? Look at Wenkel or Gadd these guys got mad skills but they always support the tune and create soooo much feel even though they could be doing crazy fills and beats everywhere.
 
#33
Alot of good points here.

As a drummer, all I can say guys and gals is that you need to communicate with your drummer. Alot of guys don't really realize that they have to create a nice dynamic cushion for the singer to sing in, for the other guys to solo in, and for the tune to say what it's supposed to say. Talk about this stuff, discuss dynamics, talk about the finer points of the piece. Don't make the only time you talk "music" with your drummer be when you turn around to make that "play quieter" hand gesture on stage. You know, the one that may earn you a stick between the shoulder blades during your favorite pose. ;) (done it)

There is some funny psychology to drumming, especially in rock music. You're sitting down, in the back line, while everyone else is standing in front of you, with their backs to you. Many drummers agree that they feel left out of it, just killing time while you fronts pose for chicks. Playing with some bands is down right drudgery. If the only time you look back is to start a song or grimace when a mistake is made, then how "in the music" do you expect your drummer to be? How is that "rhythm love" gonna happen between the bass and drums if you're off with the git man all night? ESP don't work, you've gotta bring him in, s/he can't get up and dance around with you. Don't sacrifice your drummer's inclusion for more posing space along the front of the stage. Just food for thought.

It's OK to say to your drummer during a rehearsal "Hey folks, it's time we take this to a new level with dynamics." Most people want to improve their playing and their band, just like you. Show respect for each other and cultivate a musical scene. Treat everyone as equals. Or, screw being musicians and get yourself a drum machine. :D

Best,
John
 
#34
As a drummer of 34 yrs duration (and 10 yrs playing experience) I can say honestly that I try to listen to the rest of the instruments and tailor the dynamics, volume, groove and feel of my drumming to the piece we're playing.

In a Praise & Worship band you're playing a lot of styles.

At 16 yrs. of age I'll admit that all I wanted to do was play fills as fast as Deep Purple's Ian Paice. Musical experience will eventually allow even us neuron-challenged drummers to eventually "get-it".

It's all about the feel. If you're fighting each other with volume and dynamics go out the window, then there's no feel, and it's certainly no fun.

As for those of you who seem to think a drum machine can replace a drummer, the only good programming I've ever heard is done by drummers. You can always tell when the keyboardist, producer, or guitarist has programmed the percussion. Yeccch.
 
#35
I'm glad we've got a great drummer. 17 and he's been playing around 8 years. He's definitely the glue holding our band together. We have a keyboardist with 11 years experience, and a guitarist with 6, as well as myself with 3, and I can definitely say that despite the talent of our guitarist and keyboardist and my best efforts, he's the one that keeps everything going. I think we take it for granted that he doesn't stop playing or speed up or anything. I'm glad that when we got together, and I'd been playing 6 months and our ex-singer had no experience, we didn't have to concentrate on tutoring the drummer.
 
#36
My drummer's really loud. He doesn't have a volume knob, I understand, so it's not easy for him to play quieter.

However, that doesn't explain why he got a new drum set based on the premise that it would be louder, and why he loves to hit the snare near the edge instead of the center because it is louder.

*cries*
 

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