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Workplace harassment laws: Gone too far??

#41
Another problem with the ambiguous nature of sexual harassment laws is the resultant randomness to how they are enforced.

For example, I know of a company that used sexual harassment as an excuse to fire a worker they couldn't otherwise get rid of for legitimate reasons when they documented he had sexually offensive emails (dumb blond jokes) in his in-box. They had been forwarded to him unsolicited and he didn't delete them "in a timely manner". Fired.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if people who were higher up the food chain could get away freely with real sexual harassment. I can't think of any examples but I bet rich, famous or powerful people like CEO's, entertainers and actors or well connected politicians could routinely solicit sexual favors from their female underlings as a condition of job advancement or pay and benefits and the behavior would be somehow excused or even justified if the person were popular enough.
 
#42
hbarcat said:
......

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if people who were higher up the food chain could get away freely with real sexual harassment. I can't think of any examples but I bet rich, famous or powerful people like CEO's, entertainers and actors or well connected politicians could routinely solicit sexual favors from their female underlings as a condition of job advancement or pay and benefits and the behavior would be somehow excused or even justified if the person were popular enough.
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May be true of some companies, but I know of a situation where a guy who was the chief engineer of a very important product was fired for engaging in oral sex with a subordinate employee. Actually, both were fired. He was making $200k a year, easy. But this was not a case of innuendo or someone over-hearing a questionable comment. This was a case of somebody walking into a conference room they thought was empty and witnessing a bj. And all indications are this was consensual, not a conditions of employment or advancement. There had been rumors for quite some time that the two were dating, which was a violation of company guidelines.
 
#43
Guys just need to learn how to read people better.

Know when and how to appropriately deliver a compliment. Just as important, know when to stop!!!!

And know when to bite your tongue.

IME, it's usually the guys that need a reality check about their attractiveness, or their ability to attract members if the opposite sex.
If you can't pick up a chick outside of work, it's probably wise to keep your mouth shut when on the job, you're probably nobodies prize catch and anything you say will result in disgust and uncomfortable feelings by women.

If you're attractive, and know how to speak to a women, odds are very great you're pretty safe to just be yourself and enjoy the occasional emergency exit hallway after hours! ;-)
HOWEVER even Romeo ain't Don Juan to everyone! So tread lightly my friends.

I remember my old boss getting fired and all of us going to bat for him for 3 months.
We knew this guy would NEVER do what he was accused of, this was two girls looking for a lawsuit and the company refused to stand up for him.
We more or less took a great chance and shut down operations and performance until his job was re-instated, he was transferred and demoted but it was better than nothing, and it got a good man back in his job.

What they didn't know, the girls didn't know, and we did was that our boss was as gay as the day is long. :-)
He made us swear to not out him in our efforts to fight for him as he did not want it made public.
So what could have taken 5 minutes took 3 months to accomplish.

But we fought the big Fortune 500 corporation and won. We were pretty proud of ourselves.
 
#44
As a general rule of thumb, may I suggest never being the first to bring up a co-worker's personal issue? Comment on the shoes, the diet, the kids, whatever *after* the other person has mentioned it first. That way you get to know what's safe territory and a rough idea of where they're at emotionally about the topic so you can tailor your response accordingly.
 
#45
elgecko said:
Have you been accused or disciplined for sexual harassment?
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I was once about 10 years ago. We were working on a large office building, all trades were on various floors. I was a drywall foreman in those days, so I'm conversational with everyone, and had striked up a conversation with a female electrician on and off during the day. After she finished her work in a small closet, I went in to do some work of my own. I commented that it smelled nice, and it must have been her perfume. About 15 minutes later, the job superintendent escorted me to his office. My boss was there too. We were told the woman reported that I made sexually charged comments to her and she was uncomfortable. I had to attend some training classes, and was pulled off the jobsite. My boss thought it was ridiculous, so he assigned me to another project.

-Mike
 
#46
Pilgrim said:
And in stunningly, stupidly bad taste!!!! I can't imagine making a comment like that.
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You should have heard the stuff that was said by these women. They were not prissy little social register types. Most of them hunt, fish, camp, ride motorcycles, like fast cars (the one who was on all fours) and at least one likes to drink Crown Royal & smoke cigars. That was a unique bunch, alright.
 
#47
1SHOT1HIT said:
Guys just need to learn how to read people better.

Know when and how to appropriately deliver a compliment. Just as important, know when to stop!!!!

And know when to bite your tongue.
Click to expand...

Part of this may be due to the fact that some guys think all women are here to serve them and I have know a couple of these idiots. They seem to convert almost any comment into something else, like:

Her- "Nice day, isn't it?"
Inside of his head- "Would you like to have sex with me?"

Her- "I sure wish I could get rid of this headache"
Inside of his head- "Would you like to have sex with me?"
 
#48
nortonrider said:
This PC crap is just ridiculous anymore.

Remember the guy who sued Hooters (and won) because they didn't hire him to be a Hooters Girl.

And....
if a woman want's to join the workforce, interaction with others is just part of the game.
If she can't handle that, then she needs to get her thin skinned butt back into the kitchen where she belongs!




I bet I just "offended" a whole bunch of you, didn't I?
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Not offended. As usual, not impressed, either.
 
#49
1958Bassman said:
Part of this may be due to the fact that some guys think all women are here to serve them and I have know a couple of these idiots. They seem to convert almost any comment into something else, like:

Her- "Nice day, isn't it?"
Inside of his head- "Would you like to have sex with me?"

Her- "I sure wish I could get rid of this headache"
Inside of his head- "Would you like to have sex with me?"
Click to expand...

Ah, but that's the catch. There's a lot of women who think they're hotter **** than they really are and will assume that's what a guy is thinking. This happens a lot, too:

Her - "Nice day, isn't it?"
Him - "Yeah it is. Say, for lunch how about we walk over to that new bakery down the road. That way we can enjoy the weather on the walk there."
Inside her head - "OMG, this creep is wanting to pursue a sexual relationship with me."
Inside his head - "I hear the donuts there are amazing. God, I love food. Maybe I'll pick myself up a 6pk on the way home from work for the game tonight. Maybe I'll make some nachos, too. Mmm. Nachos."

Honestly, I think guys get a bad rep for being overly sexualized deviants unfairly. I know some girls who have much more perverted thoughts about random members of the opposite sex that they see on the street than most guys I'm friends with.
 
#54
fdeck said:
If you want to compliment somebody, why not compliment their work?
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Sure, but what's wrong with complimenting someone's appearance if they look nice? I always enjoy a nice compliment from a female friend or even a complete stranger...

...and just because they compliment me doesn't mean I instantly think they want to sleep with me.
 
#56
Damn I'm glad I work construction I couldn't stand all of this PC stuff. We give everybody a hard time if you can't take it we don't want you around and yes there is a female or two every once in a while. They can usually keep up with the guys talking crap and we say a lot more than nice shoes to them.
 
#57
I have consistently violated the rules for years, and never been called on it.

That's because I'm not a CREEP.

Women have been consistently harassed in the workplace going back as far as you care to go back, and there is no reason they should have to put up with it. I tell women I like their hair; their shoes; their outfit; even comment on their BODIES, (because they've been working out and lost weight,) and talk about highly personal things with them.

Of course, I make sure they are women who KNOW AND TRUST ME, and that they are COMFORTABLE HAVING SUCH CONVERSATIONS WITH ME FIRST, which is what we should have been doing all along.

No one is trying to take away your fun, unless your fun is inappropriate.

Yes, there are examples, such as nortonrider's above, where people "take this PC crap too far," but these are isolated incidents, compared to "pre-PC," when people could be ridiculed for their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, or other such characteristic, and it wasn't conducive to healthy workplace environment.

It's always the guy who has NO CHANCE of being the minority who just dismisses it all as "PC crap."

Show other people respect, and you can pretty much feel free to be yourself.

I haven't had any issues.

But then again, I'm NICE.
 
#58
Right. That must be it. Just wait until some girl takes something you said the wrong way. You'll change your tune then.

But you're deluding yourself if you think that every guy reported by a girl deserves it in one way or another.
 
#59
Strat-Mangler said:
Right. That must be it. Just wait until some girl takes something you said the wrong way. You'll change your tune then.

But you're deluding yourself if you think that every guy reported by a girl deserves it in one way or another.
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Is bet the ones that just got the shaft over some ridiculous accusation outweigh the actual guilty many times over.
 
#60
1SHOT1HIT said:
Is bet the ones that just got the shaft over some ridiculous accusation outweigh the actual guilty many times over.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on how you see things.

To take the example of prisons, I'd rather have some guilty people outside than not guilty ones inside. I'd rather see "crimes" go unpunished than innocents punished.
 

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