Hi everyone. I've been experiencing pain in my right hand wrist for about 6 months or so. I've brought it to both of my bass teachers, and we've tried everything from switching from 'italian' to the standard 'french' grip to an on the stick grip, and the pain still continues. Part of this may have to do with the fact that I have clubbed thumbs (toe thumbs), so they're noticeably shorter, and as a consequence I have to contort my hand a bit to get it to the stick. My thumbs made it necessary to change my left hand technique (my thumb is about a centimeter or so higher on the neck than most people), but I ran into no issues there, even when doing pivots. So my end question is, is there a time to switch from french to German?
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Double Bass Wrist Pain and switching bow holds
- Thread starter cws91096
- Start date
Have you tried using a different french bow? I noticed that balance on each isn't always the same & may be a contributing factor? I read that one of the other players here actually stuck a piece of rubber between the frog & screw to change the center of gravity of the bow & shift the balance further back.
Chris,
Did your teachers address how tight your grip is on the stick? I agree that it could be a balance issue, and without seeing your hands and grip in person it is difficult to say, but "grip" is actually a VERY poor word choice! You should not "grip" the bow at all, in as much as your fingers kind of create a "cradle" that the bow lies in- with help of the string of course. Perhaps this has already been addressed in your lessons, if so, please forgive me.
Beyond that- some people just "get" one bow over another. I labored for years on French to very poor results, and one day a very nice German bow found me, and it was instantaneously clear that I had been barking up the wrong tree!
See if you can borrow a German stick from one of your teachers, or a friend, your school, what ever. Or get one of the hundred dollar used German bows that pop up here from time to time- if you don't take to it you should be able to sell it for what you have into it.
BTW- just because I took to it right away doesn't mean that you necessarily will- if you do try it, be patient and work with a teacher who is skilled and knows some of the grip variations.
Good luck!
Joe
Did your teachers address how tight your grip is on the stick? I agree that it could be a balance issue, and without seeing your hands and grip in person it is difficult to say, but "grip" is actually a VERY poor word choice! You should not "grip" the bow at all, in as much as your fingers kind of create a "cradle" that the bow lies in- with help of the string of course. Perhaps this has already been addressed in your lessons, if so, please forgive me.
Beyond that- some people just "get" one bow over another. I labored for years on French to very poor results, and one day a very nice German bow found me, and it was instantaneously clear that I had been barking up the wrong tree!
See if you can borrow a German stick from one of your teachers, or a friend, your school, what ever. Or get one of the hundred dollar used German bows that pop up here from time to time- if you don't take to it you should be able to sell it for what you have into it.
BTW- just because I took to it right away doesn't mean that you necessarily will- if you do try it, be patient and work with a teacher who is skilled and knows some of the grip variations.
Good luck!
Joe
Also, please check out this thread:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f5/french-bow-grip-question-opinions-please-871915/
Pay especially close attention to the Andrew Anderson links!!!
Joe
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f5/french-bow-grip-question-opinions-please-871915/
Pay especially close attention to the Andrew Anderson links!!!
Joe
Okay, I'll go question by question here...
1.)
Yes, I have, but never in the long term. Right now I have a ~$600 carbon fiber bow (codabow) that is a bit on the light side (135g). I've tried a few upper range bows that alleviated the issue for a lesson or rehearsal, but the only bow that really stuck out to me was this POS $100 Chinese snakewood bow that weighed 168g and was about 2-3 cm longer than anything I'd seen in a while. It played like an angel, and my hand turned to butter, letting the stick do all the work. Sadly, it wasn't up for grabs. I'm considering selling my second bass and buying a nice bow (~$2000) over the summer. I'm considering going for a heavier and longer bow because those qualities just seems to click with me. (I've specifically thought about getting a bow from Henk te Heitbrink, who makes some of his bows out of ironwood the 160-300g range. Links on info about him [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] )
2.)
The issue with this was that it wasn't really tension, it was contortion of my hand to reach the same point on the side of the stick (1/2 way between the rh middle and ring finger) with thumbs that were slightly shorter. I have the fortune to have been in the position to study with two phenomenal university teachers from the start of my bass studies. I'm not 100% sure why I ended up getting hurt, but I think it was due to my thumbs. Its a small reach, but small stress times two to four hours of practice a day can equal big injury.
The injury has been healing, and the pain is going away, but it's slow going, and limits me to about one and a half hour practice sessions once a day. I only contemplate learning German (perhaps keeping the french and becoming proficient in both grips) as to relieve the stress and quicken the healing.
1.)
Yes, I have, but never in the long term. Right now I have a ~$600 carbon fiber bow (codabow) that is a bit on the light side (135g). I've tried a few upper range bows that alleviated the issue for a lesson or rehearsal, but the only bow that really stuck out to me was this POS $100 Chinese snakewood bow that weighed 168g and was about 2-3 cm longer than anything I'd seen in a while. It played like an angel, and my hand turned to butter, letting the stick do all the work. Sadly, it wasn't up for grabs. I'm considering selling my second bass and buying a nice bow (~$2000) over the summer. I'm considering going for a heavier and longer bow because those qualities just seems to click with me. (I've specifically thought about getting a bow from Henk te Heitbrink, who makes some of his bows out of ironwood the 160-300g range. Links on info about him [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] )
2.)
The issue with this was that it wasn't really tension, it was contortion of my hand to reach the same point on the side of the stick (1/2 way between the rh middle and ring finger) with thumbs that were slightly shorter. I have the fortune to have been in the position to study with two phenomenal university teachers from the start of my bass studies. I'm not 100% sure why I ended up getting hurt, but I think it was due to my thumbs. Its a small reach, but small stress times two to four hours of practice a day can equal big injury.
The injury has been healing, and the pain is going away, but it's slow going, and limits me to about one and a half hour practice sessions once a day. I only contemplate learning German (perhaps keeping the french and becoming proficient in both grips) as to relieve the stress and quicken the healing.
Chris-
First off- sorry about the injury and all the pain associated with it. It would drive me nuts if I couldn't play!
Second- You are very lucky to have such good teachers at your disposal! I had to labor for a long time on my own before some really good teachers became available to me. Remember that their advice is worth a whole lot more that what the internets tell you!
All that said- man, I really feel for you! It sounds like you have been through a lot! The good news is that this situation should be surmountable- somehow. If you ever get discouraged, try to remember the story of Django Reinhart: Django Reinhardt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He made some of the greatest music ever despite a disabilty!!!
Have your teachers offered any advice on German bow? BTW- some teachers ask their students to become proficient with BOTH!
I wish you the best of luck- whether it be in acquiring a bow that makes things easier, or figuring out a way to play the ones you have without pain!
Nameste,
Joe
First off- sorry about the injury and all the pain associated with it. It would drive me nuts if I couldn't play!
Second- You are very lucky to have such good teachers at your disposal! I had to labor for a long time on my own before some really good teachers became available to me. Remember that their advice is worth a whole lot more that what the internets tell you!
All that said- man, I really feel for you! It sounds like you have been through a lot! The good news is that this situation should be surmountable- somehow. If you ever get discouraged, try to remember the story of Django Reinhart: Django Reinhardt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia He made some of the greatest music ever despite a disabilty!!!
Have your teachers offered any advice on German bow? BTW- some teachers ask their students to become proficient with BOTH!
I wish you the best of luck- whether it be in acquiring a bow that makes things easier, or figuring out a way to play the ones you have without pain!
Nameste,
Joe
Hahaha, when my opa (grandfather) found out about my wrist his first response was, "so you're a bit more like django. How is this bad?" 
My teachers seem a bit hesitant to have me switch, so I am equally hesitant to bring it up. I actually begun the bass playing german bow in school, but when I started studying with my first teacher I won a grant from the city I lived in at the time to buy an instrument, and he encouraged me to invest in a french bow (which I did.) It was 4 years ago that I switched, and just because of how much I've grown (ages 11-15, so, yeah) my body doesn't remember anything about it. I might be a bit more forceful If I don't feel much improvement over the summer, but until then, its just patience.
My teachers seem a bit hesitant to have me switch, so I am equally hesitant to bring it up. I actually begun the bass playing german bow in school, but when I started studying with my first teacher I won a grant from the city I lived in at the time to buy an instrument, and he encouraged me to invest in a french bow (which I did.) It was 4 years ago that I switched, and just because of how much I've grown (ages 11-15, so, yeah) my body doesn't remember anything about it. I might be a bit more forceful If I don't feel much improvement over the summer, but until then, its just patience.
