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Xsonics Club

The fearful/fearless cabinets as well as the Avatar TB153 use an Eminence LF woofer and crossover in the vicinity of 500hz if my calculations are correct. That puts a pretty hefty load (everything above 500hz) to be handled by a 6" speaker. With the Xsonics cabinets we use a very different Eminence driver and crossover our dual woofers at 1.5k. This allows for all the "heavy lifting" being achieved by the 12" or 15" bass speakers and our 5" mid range speaker just adds sparkle and additional clarity - no "heavy lifting" duties for the Xsonics 5". I very much doubt the previously mentioned cabinets DO in fact go lower than the Xsonics, but it very well could sound that way as nothing above 500hz is coming out of their woofers.

2 very different aproaches to dividing the frequencies within very different cabinet designs also.

I have very high regards for the greenboy designs. I think things need to be carefully considered when their designs are mentioned.

The greenboy designs are highly engineered. The design was very open, and many other highly qualified engineers watched closely and reviewed every step of their development. The crossover points were engineered to be what they are for many reasons. Everything in speaker design was considered, impedance curves, sensitivity, dispersion, ... I even recall midrange dopler (FM) being mentioned. There are no design flaw in the choices made by greenboy. Everything was considered in the crossover point. There is nothing wrong with the load the midrange driver takes.

You don't need to speculate on the greenboy designs because they are clearly visible with schematics on his site. On TB also.

The approach was by the numbers and engineering.

Avatar worked with Eminence on their design. They have a closed design, but it's interesting how they may have arrived at similar crossover points. It interesting how most designs using a slide rule, calculator, or computer arrive at similar design points once all parameters are considered.

You may have engineer yours, But you're tossing out scientific numbers and you don't yet have peer review and measurements to back it up.
 
Just gonna toss this out there...I'm not suggesting one cab over another as I think there are many ways to get a great sound.

The '500hz crossover point' on greenboy cabs is incorrect. It's worth noting that there are a few different mid drivers used in his designs these days, and whatever the crossover point is, the drivers involved are taken into consideration :D
 
I have very high regards for the greenboy designs. I think things need to be carefully considered when their designs are mentioned.

The greenboy designs are highly engineered. The design was very open, and many other highly qualified engineers watched closely and reviewed every step of their development. The crossover points were engineered to be what they are for many reasons. Everything in speaker design was considered, impedance curves, sensitivity, dispersion, ... I even recall midrange dopler (FM) being mentioned. There are no design flaw in the choices made by greenboy. Everything was considered in the crossover point. There is nothing wrong with the load the midrange driver takes.

You don't need to speculate on the greenboy designs because they are clearly visible with schematics on his site. On TB also.

The approach was by the numbers and engineering.

Avatar worked with Eminence on their design. They have a closed design, but it's interesting how they may have arrived at similar crossover points. It interesting how most designs using a slide rule, calculator, or computer arrive at similar design points once all parameters are considered.

You may have engineer yours, But you're tossing out scientific numbers and you don't yet have peer review and measurements to back it up.

Actually there is a peer review...called the guys playing them. Nice to see you back_________________________________ graph forth coming:rolleyes:



PS Chef...does this have to start again?
 
I am not even going to approach the technical side of all this, but I do not believe there was a statement of flaw in greenboy and other designs so much as a comparison between the two designs and how it might effect performance to the ear. I have massive respect for the greenboy movement and am very glad you hold them in such high regard, but that does not mean they should be the standard to measure the capability of all other products - at the end of the day music is just art and there are multitudes of tools to arrive at a wonderful popular painting. Hell, sometimes you just sling paint at canvas and go down in history!
Just my .02



I have very high regards for the greenboy designs. I think things need to be carefully considered when their designs are mentioned.

The greenboy designs are highly engineered. The design was very open, and many other highly qualified engineers watched closely and reviewed every step of their development. The crossover points were engineered to be what they are for many reasons. Everything in speaker design was considered, impedance curves, sensitivity, dispersion, ... I even recall midrange dopler (FM) being mentioned. There are no design flaw in the choices made by greenboy. Everything was considered in the crossover point. There is nothing wrong with the load the midrange driver takes.

You don't need to speculate on the greenboy designs because they are clearly visible with schematics on his site. On TB also.

The approach was by the numbers and engineering.

Avatar worked with Eminence on their design. They have a closed design, but it's interesting how they may have arrived at similar crossover points. It interesting how most designs using a slide rule, calculator, or computer arrive at similar design points once all parameters are considered.

You may have engineer yours, But you're tossing out scientific numbers and you don't yet have peer review and measurements to back it up.
 
I am not even going to approach the technical side of all this, but I do not believe there was a statement of flaw in greenboy and other designs so much as a comparison between the two designs and how it might effect performance to the ear. I have massive respect for the greenboy movement and am very glad you hold them in such high regard, but that does not mean they should be the standard to measure the capability of all other products - at the end of the day music is just art and there are multitudes of tools to arrive at a wonderful popular painting. Hell, sometimes you just sling paint at canvas and go down in history!
Just my .02

Fair enough.
The mentioned of a "hefty load" for the midrange driver on the greenboy designs would lead to the belief there is a design flaw.
That is the basis of my response.
Design engineers "peer" reviewed the designs. Sure Bassist also review the designs. "Peer" is meant for designer to designer, engineer to engineer. Listening, gig reviews, etc. also important.
 
I know the 212 will work for me live but we do always have FOH support any more . I did use my TB153 without FOH support in a couple of small bar gigs and it worked great at those . The 15/6/1 I had I used on big stages and we had the bass in the PA but it just tore up the stage anyway at those gigs . The 212cf seems to get a little louder than either of those cabs from what I've heard at practice so for me it would work fine as my only stand alone cab . My band plays more old style guitar based rock ala Cream and Montrose but also some rockabilly too . If we played Doom-Stoner style with a ton of dropped tuned guitar and bass I don't know how the cab would hold up , I think the 15/6/1 would handle that better though the low end with the Xsonics cab does my B string pretty well . Personally I'm not missing the 6" mid with my 212 cab , the mids of the 3012HO cut pretty well and I get a nice growl with my Ampeg pre . Dennis is probably right about the 215 cab for rock though , with the 15s it should get louder without having to push it too hard .

@ Gab & BluesB-2. Y'all using your Xsonics cab with or without any PA support for bass? The one band I would use my new cab in will unfortunately be without PA support. Sorta loud classic rock/Stax music group in med-size clubs. I'd use either my GB Streamliner 900 or Shuttle 9.2 head.

And I just traded a TBer my LMII for his GK MB500, so that may come into play as well. And sounds like it can handle my Crown CoreDrive XLS1500 w/Alembic F-1X pre, so that too may be a player. Just depends on which one will sound best with a Xson cab.

Still not sure if I'd go 212 or 215?? And after my first experience with a mid driver in this TB153; don't know if I'd want a mid in the 215. Though I'm reading how everyone is liking the mid in their Xsonics 215/5CF. So still researching. Thanks to all for the replies so far.
 
I understand where you are coming from as I am a biologist and understand the scientific method as part of life. However, as most scientists will agree, everything changes with new data, and sometimes data experienced/gathered in the field has as much or more importance as what was measured in the lab. It is all extremely valuable and moving forward will not happen without both being taken into consideration. And not to mention, if every band I went to see had the same scientifically peer reviewed equipment I think it would get rather boring :D It is good to be a bassist today!!!!
Thanks,
gab



Fair enough.
The mentioned of a "hefty load" for the midrange driver on the greenboy designs would lead to the belief there is a design flaw.
That is the basis of my response.
Design engineers "peer" reviewed the designs. Sure Bassist also review the designs. "Peer" is meant for designer to designer, engineer to engineer. Listening, gig reviews, etc. also important.
 
Tic toc just watching my clock UPS update said out for delivery . Man I am glad I don't work Fridays . So I will be here to accept my 212cf. Anxiously waiting. As far as needing the 215cf for bigger gigs I don't really think that will be the case for me . I play in a couple of different bands and one gets really loud and I was not needing more with a gk neo212 but with my ea nl210 I felt a little lacking . To me the midrange bark of a 12 just hits the sweet spot where the guitarist just seems to say ouch . I tend to use that zone to my advantage .
 
Well, as everyone knows, I took the opportunity to try out the Xsonics cab with their great full return trial period. Decided today I am keeping this thing. My personal reasons meet up completely with the advertised reasons - It gets loud and will be a one cab solution for me. It is light and easy to transport, especially for a 215. It fits behind the seat of my compact truck for rainy days, and most importantly it sounds great.. I really dig the punch and smooth transition to the mid and tweet. Looking forward to many gigs to come with this new tool.
 
Well, as everyone knows, I took the opportunity to try out the Xsonics cab with their great full return trial period. Decided today I am keeping this thing. My personal reasons meet up completely with the advertised reasons - It gets loud and will be a one cab solution for me. It is light and easy to transport, especially for a 215. It fits behind the seat of my compact truck for rainy days, and most importantly it sounds great.. I really dig the punch and smooth transition to the mid and tweet. Looking forward to many gigs to come with this new tool.

Very nice! So glad the Xsonics 2155CF was a home run for your needs and expectations Gab124. 100% satisfaction to my fellow bassists, that's the goal buddy! If I can help in any way, don't hesitate to call me.

Rock on!
 
Hey guys... if you are one of the few Xsonics.com cabinet users chime on in.
Club member honorary
#1.3 is Nick Reijmer
#2.3 Fretlessboy (Dennis Michaels)
#3 PinkBass
#4.2 Rock-N-Roll Al
#5 Buffalo Bill (Holt)
#6 Gab124
#7 Johnnybass01
#8 Blues Bass 2
#9 bb03
#10 Blues Bass Freak
#11 southsidebass
#12 fretwear
 
Thank you Dennis for starting this "club". I'm honored to be #1. Probably fitting.

Xsonics 212CF working at a gig:
 

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