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Double Bass YAMAHA EUB Megathread

Danko said:
I've seen yamaha making a SLB (Silent bass) 100, and 200 model. But then there is also a SVB? SiVent bass?

What's the catch?

Edit: Are these any good? Which one would you suggest for a guy who wants a portable (to take through train traffic) upright and already owns a 3/4 accoustic?

Danko

Good Question - There is no difference between the SLB & the SVB 100/200 basses. For some unexplained reason they are listed both ways - perhaps it is something in the translation.... in any case, it is the same instrument.

I have owned both the SLB/SVB 100 & the SLB/SVB 200. In my opinion, the S(L/V)B100 was a good first step, but it never really sounded great - plus the overall length was not much shorter than a DB - and to top it off, they did not offer a hard case!!!!! The S(L/V)B 200 is a huge improvement in sound & portability. I use it all the time for a wide variety of gigs and recordings, and regularly get enthusiastic compliments on the sound. They may not be for everyone, but they are far from a "crappy EUB-ish instrument" as expressed by bluesbass0945. You've got to be "Kydding" me! He cites a better alternative as the Clevinger bass...... I used to own the Clevinger bass, and it's much more of a "slab" than the Yamaha Silent 200, which actually has an acoustic chamber, and feels much more like a real bass than most EUBs - especially with the extension frame added. Plus, it sounds great, and is a breeze to transport!

As with many instruments. sound and feel is variable depending upon string choice & setup. But hey, let's face it - as great as it is, it is not, nor will it ever be an acoustic upright bass. It's a tool, and an excellent one at that.
 
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A while back while i was shopping around for EUBs (i owned a palatino for a while), i was really into the shape and design of the Yamaha... I thought they looked pretty cool and futuristic but a a HUGE price. I had an opportunity to have a go on one, but didnt really like it very much. I think its supposed to be an EUB that mimics the 'feel' and shape (body contour against your body with that frame) of a proper DB. As for portability, I think its a bit more portable than an acoustic DB, but not that much more in terms of length.

I eventually settled on a NS design cuz i managed to get a sweet deal and i thought they looked great too. These are probably one of the most portable EUBs around and they sound awesome too.

Bear in mind, i have now been playing acoustic bass and i dont think my NS a substitute for the real thing ... its an instrument in its own right i reckon.
 
I tried a couple of the models of Yamaha and never really liked either one... The necks were pretty thick for my liking and would need to be shaved. The sound was so so with more of an BG sound.

I bought and used an Ergo which was a really good EUB for the money and the sound was much more consistant and closer to a DB sound.

Tried an Eminence at the IBMA Trade Show in Nashville this past fall and fell in love with it...

Mine just arrived tonight via UPS and I've just finished installing the bridge and pickup system and tuning it all up and yep I'm really happy with it !!!

Not so sure about the strings they have on them but I'll be changing mine on my DB this spring so I'll install the old ones on the Eminence which should fix the feel difference between the Daddarios and the Thomastic spiral core reds....

The tone and feel of the Eminence is just so much better than any other EUB I've tried.

The NS machine is a really nice unit as well but tone is comparable to my Ergo and the feel was pretty much the same as the Ergo but it sure is prettier than the Ergo and has lots more gadgets and gizmos.

Neither hold a candle to the Eminence feel wise at all though.....

Can't wait to give it a try on stage, it'll happen Friday should be a blast ....

If your serious about going to an EUB and don't want to spend a fortune I'd certainly consider and Ergo at $700 US for a new one they are price wise a very good bargain.

I really enjoyed mine and it served the purpose while I was saving up to purchase my Eminence.....
 
speedster said:
Can't wait to give it a try on stage, it'll happen Friday should be a blast ....

If your serious about going to an EUB and don't want to spend a fortune I'd certainly consider and Ergo at $700 US for a new one they are price wise a very good bargain.

I really enjoyed mine and it served the purpose while I was saving up to purchase my Eminence.....

Keep us posted about the Eminence performing. Thanks!

:)

Danko
 
Ok, as I'll have to return my school bass soon (actually should have 1.5 years ago as i left school :p ). I'm on the lookout for a replacement, so I can continue practicing double bass.

So, what do you think is better: getting a yamaha slb-200 (a lot cheaper, pickup included, gigbag included and far easier to transport) or an actual acoustic bass (noname)/is the yamaha slb-200 good? it's pretty much the only eub i found which looks like it would feel remotely like a real bass.

so:
Invalid Link Removed (1998€)
or
THOMANN DOUBLE BASS 4, 3/4, all hand carved professional double bass, selected spruce top, solid maple neck, backand sides. Finest ebony trimmings, swelled back, handshaded colour washed spirit varnish, D'addario Helicorestrings. (2790€)

in both cases i was planning to get a Glasser G 5000X Bow. The only other option would be a GEWA bow. and if i get the acoustic a Fishman BP-100-M pickup system, and of course i'll also need a gigbag. (all in all going the acoustic route would cost about 1200€ more... which is a whole lot for a poor student such as i...)
 
ToneRanger said:
If you're looking for the equivalent of a 'real bass' then get a 'real bass'.
I'm very happy with my EUB ( Link Removed ) but I don't pretend it's something else.

honestly, that answer is pretty useless to me. isn't it just sensible to want an eub that feels similar to the instrument it imitates? otherwise the technique is too different imo. i don't expect the slb to sound exactly like an acoustic double bass, but i don't expect an amplified acoustic double bass to sound like a louder unamplified acoustic double bass. what i do want is a adequate arco and pizzicato tone (can't say that about most acoustic db pickups either), and something that is similar enough that the technique i practice when playing on it is not totally useless, which it would be with most eubs like the one you gave a link to which have absolutely nothing in place of the right or left upper part of the body. (which are both required for proper db technique as i learned it)

so: how is the feel of the yamaha slb-200 (with/without the extensions for the body which i would also buy if required... if i found any shop here that sold those...), and is the sound, both arco and pizz usable?
 
I have had the SLB200 for about 1 1/2 years - prior to that, I used the SLB100 for 3 years. I have used D'Addario Helicore Hybrids (Med) with pretty good success. But I have been contemplating trying something else - possibly obligatos - not sure. It will be interesting to see what other responses come in.
 
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I too have been researching EUB's. As previously stated, I think we all agree that the EUB is not a DB. However, my need for an instrument is for an EUB that gets reasonably close to a DB but avoids that "fretless bass" sound. I tried the NS CR4T today as well as the SLB200. I thought that the punch and clarity of the NS was fantastic and know that it's a great product - would certainly be a good bit of work changing techniques with no real body to work with (ie thumb positioning)- call me lazy but I thought the feel of the SLB200 felt a little more like home.

Currently I'm looking into what kinds of mods I could do to the SLB200 to get it to sound a little more "punchy" - perhaps a little closer to the NS but not quite that "electric fretless bass" thing. Any suggestions anyone could post would be a great bonus....

I"m heading out on tour in October and will certainly need one for then as well as some way to transport - most guys up here in Toronto are using SKB-like golf cases that are tweaked and padded to check them...
 
I heard the Norwegian bassist, Arild Andersen, play an slb 200 here in Taipei a few weeks ago and had decided by the end of the show that I wanted to get one. I sounded that great. He wasn't using the stock pickup, but instead had mounted a fishman full circle on it.

That concert hall is quite boomy and many acoustic basses sound like echoy mush in there. This bass, being that it was an eub, naturally had a dryer, more direct sound. Yet the subtleties that each hand can get on an acoustic bass (and that I can't get on my NS designs) were there.

My NS designs is a brilliant piece of engineering and a freat music making tool. That yamaha just sounded and played a helluva lot like an acoustic.
 
As a recent SVB200 owner, I thought I’d chime in with my personal experiences in my EUB quest. First off, my experience with other EUB’s is limited to Azola’s bugbasses, the acoustic baby bass, Czech Ease and both of Yamaha’s Silent Basses. I’ve been playing BG for a little over 13 years and recently made the jump to the upright realm. I have been around and played URB’s in the past, but my actual URB playing time was limited to a few minutes at a time. While I’m not a seasoned upright player, I do trust my ears and know what sounds good and what does not. So there, my little disclaimer. :hiding:

AZOLA
I actually made an appointment and made the drive down from LA to visit with Jill and Steve Azola out in Ramona a couple years ago. They were so warm friendly and felt very welcomed in their home – Azola Ranch. I don’t know if that’s the official name, but it felt like one, very cozy. Steve gave me the history of his basses and a tour of his workshop and showed some of his prototypes. I checked out the bugbasses – slab, floating top, and Eurocoustic as well as their Eurocoustic baby bass. I liked the customizable sound of the bugbasses, and they felt pretty good. The thing I wasn’t too crazy about was the adjustable wire bar for the upper bout. The Eurocoustics produced a very convincing URB sound, but at the time they only had a volume control. In addition, I wasn’t digging the steep upper bout. That was my first EUB experience and wanted to look into others. I was still debating on whether or not I could afford the space and money to get a URB. One thing I knew for certain was that tone and feel were high on the list, tone and feel as close to an URB as possible that is. One

CZECH-EASE
I won’t get into too much detail about the Czech Ease, because it was way over my budget. One of the local luthiers had one in his shop on consignment from David Gage. David held a workshop here in Honolulu a while back and didn’t want to go through the hassles of checking it in for the return trip home so he left it on consignment. He was selling it with the traveling trunk for $4500. While it was it was smaller than a full sized URB, it was still pretty big. It did sound great, like a true amplified URB. One unique feature that’s not mentioned on David Gage’s site is that the scroll comes off, I think it’s held in place with a dowel and magnet so ½ friction and the other magnetic. Anyway for that kind of money, I thought to myself that I might as well get a decent URB along the lines of a Shen Willow or for a couple grand more, a New Standard. More tire kicking to come…


YAMAHA
Fast forward to a couple months ago, I paid a visit to my local Yamaha instrument shop and had a go at the Yamaha EUB’s by accident. I was actually heading over to place an order for a TRB1005F BG and they just so happened to have both SVB’s in the showroom. In comparison to the Azola’s wire frame upper bout on the bugbass and the very steep upper bout on the Eurocoustic Baby Bass, the SVB100 had a very comfortable and natural upper bout. The SVB100’s suggested URB silhouette was pretty to look at and that’s just about where it ended for me. The neck felt clunky, maybe almost square. It sounded like mud (it was plugged into an EA iAMP 500 and Wizzy cab). I’m sure the sound could possibly be improved with some setup work – new bridge, new pickup, new strings etc. I don’t mean knock on the 100, but it is what it is. I’d almost consider it for silent arco practice as long as I didn’t plug it in. I suppose that was Yamaha’s intent as uprightbassghos mentioned.

Next I tried the SVB200. The 200 was an improvement over the 100 in regard to feel and sound, but overall wasn’t thoroughly impressed (initially). The neck did feel a lot better, very close if not just like a URB. The tone, like the marketing ads stated, was much improved. The shop owner told me that it had been in the bag for over a year and no played on it. I spent a good 30 mins or so playing on it and then it began to open up a bit. It sounded even better with the tone shaping/EQ section on the iAMP bypassed. Before I left the shop, I had the dealer put in the order for the TRB1005F and left to digest my experience with the SVB’s. I made a second trip and decided that I was in love (or lust). At any rate, the 200 grew on me. By the third trip, love or lust, the SVB200 came home with me. Other plusses to add to the 200 is that it’s more compact than the 100, sounds better than the 100, and is cheaper than the 100 ($2800). I picked mine up for $1900.

I think the stock onboard piezo pickup is better suited for bowed playing rather than pizz. In my 3 months of experience with the SVB200, bowed playing is where it really shines. At least that’s the case with stock strings that came with my SVB200 as they sound through my amps. Don’t get me wrong, the pizz sound is pretty darn acceptable and is a close approximation to an acoustic URB. Maybe my pizz technique just flat out sucks, but from what I can hear, I think it sounds better played arco. I’m sure if I changed my strings, I may be singing a different tune. I’d like to change my strings to somewhere along the lines of Corelli or D’addario Hybrid Mediums or perhaps even Heavies, but I’m broke at the moment. I’m still paying off my SVB200 and TRB1005F BG that I picked up 3 months ago. I’d like to add that the 200 actually has a small acoustic chamber (like the floating top Azola bugbass). I'm sure the improvement in tone over the 100 has a lot to do with this chamber.

Speaking of amps, I’m currently GASing over an AI Contra combo, or an AccuGroove Tri112L cab together with an AI Focus head. My main BG combo, a Fender 400 Pro, didn’t quite fit the bill. At the moment I switch between my Roland Cube 100 and Yamaha BT500-110 with PA support. It'll have to do for now. :hmm:

Anyway…my 2 cents.
 
lin fung said:
I heard the Norwegian bassist, Arild Andersen, play an slb 200 here in Taipei a few weeks ago and had decided by the end of the show that I wanted to get one. I sounded that great. He wasn't using the stock pickup, but instead had mounted a fishman full circle on it...

lin fung’s post about Arild Andersen’s SVB200 piqued my curiosity because I was considering either changing the stock pickup or adding a bridge wedge pickup like the Revolution Solo. So I did what any curious shmuck would do, I emailed Arild directly and asked him about his setup. I wasn’t expecting a response from Mr. Andersen quite honestly. I figured he has more important things to respond to like booking gigs and not responding to some pesky Yank from the US. Much to my surprise, he responded to me the very next day. He was very personable and cordial in his email. To me that’s the best kind of musician – down to earth and willing to help out fellow musicians. I digress.

Anyway…he uses a Wilson pickup, not the Fishman Full Circle. He did advise me to focus more on my technique rather than what kind of pick up I should get. In his words, “no sound comes from the pickup – it comes from your fingers.” And I agree whole heartedly. I'd like to add that he uses Thomastik Spirocores. Arild made a very bold statement in his email. He said that with his Wilson pickup, through an amp and sound system, his Yamaha SVB200 sounds 90% the same as his acoustic upright. Wow. Then again, we’re talking about a seasoned professional here. He could probably make a piece twine nailed to a 2 x 4 sound good. But in short, hearing him say that or reading it rather, is very promising and shows what the SVB200 is capable of in the right hands. Looks like lin fung feels the same about the sound of Arild's Yamaha SVB200.
 
In response to your question about making the SVB200 sound more punchy richmoore1998, I find that the stock pickup on the SVB200 is inherently punchy, somewhat similar to the Realist pickup sound. There are a number of ways to get more punch out the SVB200. The great thing about the SVB200 is that it already comes with bridge adjusters so you can modify the bridge height to your playing style and desired sound– lower for more growl, less effort to dig in; higher for more volume and punch. Additionally, if you want more punch you can adjust your technique by playing more on the side of the strings vs. pulling down towards the fingerboard to get more sustain and growl. I currently have my adjusters set fairly low at about 1/8” (3.175mm). When I want more thump, I just play against the side of the strings or simply raise the adjusters (loosen the strings first). You can also experiment with the position you pluck the string in regards to height/area of fingerboard (closer to neck or bridge).

String selection makes a big difference as well - heavy vs. medium, nickel vs. steel, synthetic/non metal or metal core. And of course pairing your instrument with the proper amplifier/speaker is the other factor.

I get decent results playing through a Roland Cube 100 for smaller gigs and Yamaha BBT500-110 in tandem with PA support for larger gigs.

Rich, what did you end up getting for your tour? Be careful with how you pack your bass if it’s to be checked in. A friend of mine came in from LA for a salsa gig and the neck on his EUB snapped off. He was just using a flight case with no additional internal padding. You might want to check out this link for packing suggestions. It’s a page that instructs how to prepare an acoustic guitar for shipping, but the same applies to most stringed instruments. Just skip through the quick instructions and go directly to “Packing the Guitar”.

Link Removed
 
Someone informed Arild of my earlier post and he was kind enough to send me an email correcting me that he, in fact, used a wilson pickup and spirocore strings.

For those of you who haven't heard his music, I highly recommend it. Besides apparently being a pretty nice guy, he also has a very original sound.

Are there any SLB 200 owners out there who could post links to sound files of their basses? That would obviously add a lot of substance to this discussion.
 
lin fung, that "someone who informed Arild" was me. Eek! Makes me sound like a tattle tell. I hope you weren't irritated by that. I apologize if you were. Discussion on the Yamaha silent basses is a bit limited here, so I had to be resourceful. ;)

But yes, I did inquire with Arild to ask him about his setup after you mentioned how great he sounded. I was considering changing the pickup on mine.

Arild does indeed have an original sound. I wish I had the pleasure of watching and hearing him live. He has some clips on his Invalid Link Removed. I especially like "The Day". He talks briefly about his new Yamaha SLB200 in his July 2006 News. There's a picture of him playing on his Yamaha EUB. Too bad the view is partially blocked by a music stand. Invalid Link Removed

[edit] I don't think the clips are of Arild and his Yamaha Silent Bass. But since his Yammy EUB sounds 90% the same as his URB, just imagine a 10% difference when you're listening to the clips. Speaking of sound clips, I'm actually recording a CD at the moment. Quite honestly, I'm a little embarrassed to show my amateur playing, but when I have the tracks recorded, I'll post some samples. Great suggestion there fung!