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Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

#761
Don’t be afraid to dial IN some midtone if it gets too diffuse .
It is industrial in the sense that you can dial all the frequencies. Dialing up the mid tones or low mids can get you hearing yourself again… with the other tools you mention it is generally possible to h get the tone you need
 
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#763
TroyK said:
Okay, so I'll come back to last night's gig.

This is a good pickup. What initially drew me to it was the way it is mounted on the bass and the claims of quality of construction and I'm not disappointed. It is a precision machined component that feels like it enhances my setup rather than something flimsy or awkward attached to it. The only issue I have in this regard is that my bridge needed some material removed to accommodate the added thickness. I'd also like a clean way to attach and remove the jack when I wasn't using it. For now, I have it mounted to the tailpiece and it's not a big deal to take it off, but it involves enough effort that I'm just leaving it on there. I may play with velcro at some point, but it's not bothering me.

Sonically it is hot, but I don't think that's a problem for now. I'm able to control it. Someone did post a video clip of my gig last night and I noticed that I was very tender with my right hand, so I wonder if I was holding back, but practicing today I don't see a reason that it shouldn't be manageable as is.

It is very hifi, much moreso than any other pickup I've used except the Stat-B. With the 4 band parametric eq on my iAmp, I can dial in the tone I want and have it sound like whatever I want it to. This is something I've never been good at and I'm mostly convinced that it's because the pickups I've been using were already voiced and frequencies that I'm adjusting now maybe just weren't there before. I've not been using my micro head which has a basic 3-band low-mid-high eq and it's possible that I won't with this pickup. The more powerful eq, at least for now seems to be important. As is a hpf, which is something else that I've never thought was as important as everyone says, but I used off and on, usually with bad stages, but I would not go out without it with the Yamahiko right now. I think that it's also impedance buffering, which might be part of it. I've experimented with my SansAmp paradriver at home and I like some things about it, but it doesn't replace the hpf and I can't get my brain around eq on a pedal and another eq on the amp. Seems overkill or at least complicated. I do wonder if there is an ideal pre-amp for this pickup that will a) buffer impedence b) give you hpf and c) help you control those frequencies.

At home, in addition to the hpf, I drop the bass -5 at about 60 hz, and cut low-mid a little bit to manage the bloom and hi-mid to reduce the string noise. I can make it dark like a Realist, but don't, just sweep and dial in the sound I want. On the last two gigs, I've ended up putting those frequencies back in to get to a similar sound. I don't think I'm quite dialed in on this yet, but I like what I'm hearing and knowing that I have that control. I just need to get better at it.

I've tried going into the active input on my amp, but it didn't seem to make things better in any way.

But, it's not magic. On the gig last night, there wasn't a great place for amp. We were kind of pushed into a corner and it generally sounded too dark or too diffuse to me, but I don't think it would have been different with another pickup, I just couldn't get myself in a position where I was hearing the amp the way that the room was.

The thing that kept me from moving on this pickup before now was the cost, but it was about $30 more than a Realist Lifeline or Full Circle based on the exchange rate, so my timing was good in that regard.

I don't see questioning my purchase or going away from it. I do think it's going to require a little more attention than the types of pickups I have preferred, but I might be ready for that. What's bothering me right now is too much change. I added the RobPin and reshaped the bridge when I was creating accommodation for this pickup and it's a lot to adjust to at once. I think all of it will be better than the alternatives once I'm through it, though.
Click to expand...
Having used the Yama for a number of years I would agree with everything you said. At some point you may want to experiment with the pickup on the G side - on my boomy bass I find that it clears up the E/A strings, lessens the 'bloom', is punchier and needs less HPF.
 
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#764
Eddie Gomez put out a CD called Next Future, way back in the 90's I believe. I remember reading an interview with him and he was saying that he used the "Japanese" pickup on that recording. The CD has that direct sound that got around his vocalizations. Not that I have ever really tried, but I have never gotten that sound from the Yamahiko....Or anything close. (yes, I know I am not Eddie etc) but just to say that I think the pickup has a lot of versatility of eq possibilities depending on what you want and what you hear and what your bass sounds like. It is interesting to listen to how Eddie makes it sound on that CD.
 
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#766
flatback said:
Don’t be afraid to dial IN some midtone if it gets too diffuse .
It is industrial in the sense that you can dial all the frequencies. Dialing up the mid tones or low mids can get you hearing yourself again… with the other tools you mention it is generally possible to h get the tone you need
Click to expand...
Flatback, you have a lot of experience with all the possible combinations and iterations of the yamahiko. Quick question: what is the fastest and cheapest way too add more mid range definition i.e. hear myself better in tough sonic situations with my current setup: yamahiko single sensor on E string side into Acoustic Image clarus sl into mas18
 
#767
Hey Sam, How are things?
Lately I am plugging both the Y and Wilson into the Felix and nuthin else. It is not as warm and present as the tube preamp but 1. it cuts thru 2. I have it on the floor so I can use the boost for solos (works great) 3. the HPF's add lots of definition and if it gets even more squirrely then that boosting the midrange (the Felix has THE most awesome 3 knob midrange eq) ...the 3 knobs are from left to right mid boost, freq, and width, so you can boost (or cut) any part of the midrange and contour it (make it narrow or wide). Boosting the low mids can add definition without altering the sound too much but boosting the high ugly mids will cut like a rusty axe.
BUT the best easiest way is just to add the other sensor and bridge them.
With two sensors you can use one or the other or both bridged (or with the Felix) one to each channel.
 
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#768
SamuelHarris said:
Flatback, you have a lot of experience with all the possible combinations and iterations of the yamahiko. Quick question: what is the fastest and cheapest way too add more mid range definition i.e. hear myself better in tough sonic situations with my current setup: yamahiko single sensor on E string side into Acoustic Image clarus sl into mas18
Click to expand...
I would use more HPF or try it on the G string side.
 
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#769
The current exchange rate is really making the Yamahiko look attractive. For those in the U.S., how much were taxes/duties? Looks like shipping is free for orders over 20,000 yen, and since the single sensor version is 25,000....

I would also really like to hear more about arco with the Yamahiko. It's only been mentioned a few times in this big ol' thread! I play a lot of arco when in a folk/rock band context (probably ~40% arco) and am starting to incorporate more arco into my jazz playing. Does it need a volume or tone adjustment when switching to arco?

Edit: Threads are down on my bridge FWIW. I'm guessing having the element towards the feet works better for arco.
 
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#771
bassically_eli said:
I would also really like to hear more about arco with the Yamahiko. It's only been mentioned a few times in this big ol' thread! I play a lot of arco when in a folk/rock band context (probably ~40% arco) and am starting to incorporate more arco into my jazz playing. Does it need a volume or tone adjustment when switching to arco?.
Click to expand...

If you’re playing arco with any piezo, regardless of how good ( the Yamahiko being the one of best) it will require access to some kind of volume control that you can quickly adjust on the fly. One of the primary reasons I have the Grace Felix is that you can channel switch, between two different EQ’s one for arco and one for pizzicato. You don’t necessarily need a Grace to do that. You can either get a volume pedal or a a/b switch if you have a two channel amp. Another thing to consider is I believe I read that the dual element version of the Yamahiko, was designed for capturing arco because it can better track the excursion of the bow. Just my take
 
#772
flatback said:
Eddie Gomez put out a CD called Next Future, way back in the 90's I believe. I remember reading an interview with him and he was saying that he used the "Japanese" pickup on that recording. The CD has that direct sound that got around his vocalizations. Not that I have ever really tried, but I have never gotten that sound from the Yamahiko....Or anything close. (yes, I know I am not Eddie etc) but just to say that I think the pickup has a lot of versatility of eq possibilities depending on what you want and what you hear and what your bass sounds like. It is interesting to listen to how Eddie makes it sound on that CD.
Click to expand...

I have that CD. I would venture to say that "sound" he gets is not just the pickup. There's probably a mic and studio enhancements as well. I will dig it out and listen again. Eddie Gomez made a Brazil CD with Eliane Elias. Someone borrowed it years ago but now I can't remember who. I recall he got a similar sound on that recording.
I acquired one of these pickups but haven't had it installed yet. I've used Underwood, both elements, for years. I'm expecting the Yamahiko to sound similar on my bass. We'll see about that.
 
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#773
Roger Mouton said:
I have that CD. I would venture to say that "sound" he gets is not just the pickup. There's probably a mic and studio enhancements as well. I will dig it out and listen again. Eddie Gomez made a Brazil CD with Eliane Elias. Someone borrowed it years ago but now I can't remember who. I recall he got a similar sound on that recording.
I acquired one of these pickups but haven't had it installed yet. I've used Underwood, both elements, for years. I'm expecting the Yamahiko to sound similar on my bass. We'll see about that.
Click to expand...

Roger,
From what I gather and my experience with the Underwood (I had one on my bass for over 10 years when they first arrived on the market) I think the Yamahiko will be a pretty big step up sound wise. I was told by reliable sources that Fishman
took a look at the Yamahiko and developed the Full Circle from that, although the Full Circle puts the piezo crystals in the wheel while the Yamahiko puts them in the shaft where their better protected. Just my take of course.
 
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#774
bassically_eli said:
The current exchange rate is really making the Yamahiko look attractive. For those in the U.S., how much were taxes/duties? Looks like shipping is free for orders over 20,000 yen, and since the single sensor version is 25,000....

I would also really like to hear more about arco with the Yamahiko. It's only been mentioned a few times in this big ol' thread! I play a lot of arco when in a folk/rock band context (probably ~40% arco) and am starting to incorporate more arco into my jazz playing. Does it need a volume or tone adjustment when switching to arco?

Edit: Threads are down on my bridge FWIW. I'm guessing having the element towards the feet works better for arco.
Click to expand...
I believe it's the Post Office's job to collect that stuff and neither time when I've bought a yama was I charged taxes/duties.
 
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#775
Ric Vice said:
If you’re playing arco with any piezo, regardless of how good ( the Yamahiko being the one of best) it will require access to some kind of volume control that you can quickly adjust on the fly. One of the primary reasons I have the Grace Felix is that you can channel switch, between two different EQ’s one for arco and one for pizzicato. You don’t necessarily need a Grace to do that. You can either get a volume pedal or a a/b switch if you have a two channel amp. Another thing to consider is I believe I read that the dual element version of the Yamahiko, was designed for capturing arco because it can better track the excursion of the bow. Just my take
Click to expand...

I don't know about "require". Lot's of people take arco solos without using a volume pedal (or equivalent). I'm not Paul Chambers, but I do pull out the stick of pain on a gig now and again and have never used any kind of volume compensation when I do.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just that "required" is a bit of an over-reach.
 
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#776
TroyK said:
I don't know about "require". Lot's of people take arco solos without using a volume pedal (or equivalent). I'm not Paul Chambers, but I do pull out the stick of pain on a gig now and again and have never used any kind of volume compensation when I do.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just that "required" is a bit of an over-reach.
Click to expand...

Well,
In with my Mirecourt 5/8 ths there's a pretty big difference between pizzicato which is a little on the softer side, but amplify's really well vs Arco where my bass really wakes up and speaks. Where that becomes a real issue for me, is a musical or big band chart where you're constantly
switching back and forth between the two and the dynamics range from ppp<fff ( forgive me for my over reach here :)) under those conditions, the easiest way for me personally, is to switch between two different EQ's on the Grace (which is I'll admit quite expensive) and just have
the arco vs pizz set at different volume levels., then I can adjust the dynamics with my hands and technique to do the subtile changes in volume. So, I say that it's not "required" it sure can be a godsend. Fortunately for me ( I remember that it didn't work for you at all Troy)
the EAP into the Grace, requires very little tweaking sometimes none at all when switching from arco to pizz. Just my take of course. Sometimes simpler is better.
 
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#777
My Copper Realist doesn't need any volume correction when switching to arco, nor does my mic. I think my Vic's Model B probably does, but I haven't actually used it live very often.

This video just happened to pop up in my feed, and Olivier Babaz says that he does not use any volume adjustment when switching to arco. He's using a Full Circle. However, he also describes playing small gigs where the acoustic sound of the bass is still very audible and the amp is just there for reinforcement. That's totally different than playing a big outdoor stage, for instance, where all anyone can hear is the amplified sound.
 
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#779
The copper Realist is the only pick up I've ever used that I could just grab the bow and play without some kind of tweaking or cringing. In fact, it's a big reason I stuck with it for 20 years. Any recording engineer will tell you that there's a substantial difference in volume between Arco and Pizz.
 

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