• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

it sounds as good or way better then a Stat B on its best day, It does not have much piezo whine (less then any other piezo I have used) Yet it has super clarity and dynamics.

I have not heard a piezo with this clarity and lack of quack before, totally killing....


Just so you can hear the difference, and comparison reasons, here is the Schertler Stat-B (one capsule) and the only difference is I changed speakers..

1. $700 + - Acoustic Image Contra. (older model) 12 or 10 inch speaker maybe?

2. $1600 Epifani 4x10 D.i.s.t. speaker cab

3. $1300 Greenboy Fearless F112 Speaker Cab..


You tell me which one sounds the best.. and notice I didn't change anything on the bass or pickup-wise.. only changed speakers..







 
@DoubleMIDI Yes, you are correct about the difference in time and phase delay. I absolutely understand it very well.

I don't think variable phase is a silver bullet in this case where both pickups are identical and the propagation delay through the bridge is relative to the respective distance from each string to either pickup. However, a phase shift of one pickup relative to the other will result in shifting the comb filter effect and may shift it into a much more pleasing and usable response.

To verify this, running each pickup into different EQ settings would effectively change the phase of each pickup and change how they interact with each other. Each band of EQ will introduce it's own phase delay, so it would be very easy to get a sense of how phase affects the sound. Of course, you have to listen to a different frequency band than you are adjusting (turn down the lows on one pickup, listen to the mid-range and highs to see if something else shifts, etc).

A number of commercially available Piezos use multiple elements within their singular packaging. They are placed much closer to each other than the the Yamahiko, but there are often more than one. The Realist and FC both come to mind. They might not be your favorite, but they've worked for many people for many years.
 
@DoubleMIDI
A number of commercially available Piezos use multiple elements within their singular packaging. They are placed much closer to each other than the the Yamahiko, but there are often more than one. The Realist and FC both come to mind. They might not be your favorite, but they've worked for many people for many years.

I like the Full Circle, but only in one orientation, but dislike the Realist. I like the Shadow SH-965 NFX better than the Realist, preferably with one foil under the bass side bridge foot only.
Connecting piezos in parallel seems to work better with thicker piezo crystals than the thin wafer on a piezo buzzer disk.

Anyway, you seem to understand what I meant. I just wanted to stop a fruitless discussion what electronic solution for a two-element pickup would sound as good as a simple single element one when it could be proofed that you never can get rid of some phasing. And that a small change to the bass might make it compatible with single element pickups.

Not necessarily addressed to you, lowfreqgeek, but to others who still think electronics can solve all acoustic problems.
 
I think that you will get a "flattening" of the sound due to phasing between two elements on each side of the bridge no matter what. However, a dual element pickup has a more "complex" sound than a single element pickup, which only picks up vibrations from a single spot of the bass. The further away from the strings (Realist), the less this "one dimensionality" problem might be. Just my sense/experience.
 
Well I got the second jack and split the signal into the Grace Felix one channel for each pickup, phaze reversed eq'd both pretty flat, sounds pretty nice. What happens with two channels is you can change the volume and phase and eq of each just a little, and it reduces the phasing effects considerably. Play with nice airy short notes and it can be almost mic like, glue your fingers to the board and flick at the strings and it can sound like a piezo.
Having one on the E side is plenty for anyone, like a more clear powerful FC...THis is a powerful pickup in a near perfect place to deliver excellent balanced reproduction, with two on separate channels the whole upper part of the instrument becomes almost it's own instrument, very present and powerful and it sings out...A lot of people probably wont like that, because there is a nice dynamic decay with just the one so that the upper register falls away a little in the sound. But I dig it. I'm not sure if I like it enough to have it replace the mic, but I am sure sick of Feedback and this while not totally acoustic is super pleasant and musical and Im going to try it like this for a month or two see if I really like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris Fitzgerald
THanks Ric....I think that the Felix with little tweaks sounds pretty good with these two pickups Phase problems be damned. Unless someone comes up with a little stomp box that has variable phase, I'm good. Last few gigs I've played have been with just the two sensor pickup and what is really making me shift from the whole acoustic Mic/blend thing is just the ease of sound and the way the sound sits in the band. It is almost effortless to drive the band and have the bass in the right space for that and while there are definitely a few audible piezo artifacts happening on occasion, the over all feel and sound is effortless and fat and thumpy and clear. Different then say a realist in that the sound is thumpy but clear. Different then a Stat B in that the balance between bridge and body sound is just right (percussive ghost notes for example have just the right thwack without too high or low)
I have the Stat B and Ischell on the little bass (and that combo sounds great too) but more finicky and it takes more effort and patience to dial it in and avoid feedback etc.
 
partly out of laziness , but largely so I can use a mic too, I have been playing with the two pickups wired together rather then each getting its own channel. Phase schmase. That is a pretty baddass sounding pickup. Not exactly acoustic but it sounds great with a band, and mixed with a mic it is sick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lowfreqgeek
Connecting two passive piezo pickups (or any other low load able = high output impedance pickups) has two effects on sound. One is the interaction of the two transducer signals, but the other one is by changing the impedance of the parallel connected pickups. So if you want to mix them give them both a simple impedance buffer (mint box, FDecks quick'n'dirty) and mix their outputs together.

You can find out how much phasing you got by simply removing one pickup from the bass but let it electrically connected. If it still sounds bad, it's not the phasing but the unbuffered parallel connection of the two pickups.
 
The Doubler made a huge difference as far as phase problems. I agree that with two elements there will always be phase issues. The question is "does it sound and function better?" Using the variable phase on my hot-rodded Doubler alowed me to find the phase "sweet spot" at least what appeals to me. I thought that it sounded really crappy with both in phase and so-so with both out of phase. When I found that sweet spotit did indeed sound a lot better than just one pickup. But---it didn't sound right with both pickups the same volume. So---every time you change the volume of one element you have to go back and mess with the phase, as the relationship changes. But once dialed in---everything sounded better. I'm begging the Sonic Farm guys to make me a box with isolated channels and a variable phase.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice
Ok So the Felix has a buffer for each channel on ch 2 there is a 20Meghom buffer and on ch 1 a 10Meghom buffer. They differ. WHen I am on the gig and I have the to pickups wired together Ch2. with a Mic on ch 1 seems like it is an easy eq fix to get a nice fat tone from the pickup. WHen I am at home and I play around with the sounds I am more sensitive to the amount of phasing and what it does to the tone.
At home with no other sounds happening, I really like just the one E side pickup. I think that is the sound that other bassists are going to dig too, clear open rich, acoustic(ish) but when I get to the gig I prefer them wired together eq'd and mixed with a mic. With the Remic Green I turn that up as high as it will go before FB ....There is a sound when the mic is loud that is super big and open and then the pickup underneath provides definition and girth to the sound. It's crazy good, quiet tunes and latin have this great authentic open fatness, and walking is defined but not plastic-y. When I have the two pickups going into their own channels and eq'd IT is also a good sound -way less open but without any bleed. Like a car with turbo. But without the mic, a whole lot is lost (IMO). With the Felix the difference between having two pickups in different channels and two pickups wired together and eq'd is not huge. I notice as soon as I wire them together (on a gig) I turn up the volume 2 clicks, boost the low mids (the Felix does not respond well to just removing the mids unless it is with the notch filter, what works is to boost the low mids a little with a smooth Q bump rolled counter clockwise)
But I can say about the Yamahiko that it is way better then ANY other pickup I have used for being heard, hearing myself and getting the job done without being pissed off that I don't sound right. The people I play with all just say "oh man your bass sounds so warm and great tonight and I can HEAR you"
THe Yamahiko as adjuster is just great too. So well made and stable that you can turn it under pressure (if needs be) and never worry about that ugly white wire breaking off. (like on it's US imitator the FC)....I also think that the orientation of the pickup (vertical in the threads rather then in the disc) makes a big difference in the potential realism of the sound (with the right preamp and amp)
 
so why isnt there a big hoopla about the phasing in the FC? Because the elements are so close? Or because it in the end can be overcome with eq?

The elements in the FC are picking up the same vibrations at the same time. There is no time delay between them as they are all housed in the same metal housing, whereas the 2 elements of the Yamahiko are going to pick up different sound waves at different times due to the propagation of the various frequencies through the top and bridge.

Merely having multiple elements sensing the same signal will not cause phase issues, electrically speaking. Phasing is cancellation effect of different signals (time delayed, etc) being added together. If the signals are identical, there is no phase difference.
 
Played a gig this week where a friend sat in for a couple tunes on my bass and I could hear it from out in the club: I had the Yamahiko (both sides tied together) and the ISchell blended. Man that was a fat loud clear warm present easy to play not electric sounding, thumpy joy to listen to. I dont know what the Yamahiko sounds like plugged into less then a really nice preamp and MAS speaker (it might sound a lot more artificial thru an E bass amp)
but I am done looking. Im going to sell the other pickups and use the Y on my basses (almost always with a mic or contact mic blended on top).
On the other two basses I think I will just get the single sensor version, but I really like the two.
 
THere WAS an issue...THe legs of the Y are longer then the FC and my Luthier had to add to the feet and take away from the bridge to get it placed just right...not a difficult or costly adjustment. THe larger bore size was easily addressed despite the previous 1/4 inch hole. THe advantage is that the Yamahiko turns much more easily then the FC. Also because the Y piezo is in the SHAFT the orientation of the wheel is less significant (all directions sound much closer to each other) with the FC a quarter or half turn can Frankenclunk your tone.
 
Man, I've got to decide if it's worth having my bridge cut to install the Yamahiko. I like my bridge without adjusters. Sometimes it's a little harder to play, and sometimes a little easier. Sometimes it sounds really great, sometimes less so, but it's been a good experience learning to deal with it the past year. I can't deny how great my bass sounds as is; the the real question is whether adding adjusters will take anything away from the sound, and is that loss worth the other gains I would realize? Some say yes, some say no. What do I know?