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Double Bass Yamahiko Double Bass Pickup

#121
THanks gents. Why do my mics work so well with pickups then? I almost always use a mic blended with the pickup and it is never an issue. Sometimes I press one phase button then the other and it always sounds best unengaged on both channels...and if it doesn't I leave it pressed in. The mic and pickup seem to inhabit their own sonic spaces and when they come together you cannot (except on certain squeezed notes where you can hear the piezo) hear them separately. Often my Schertler dual element pickup sounded totally badass, I mean fat and warm and articulate and dimensional and without piezo nastyness, but then inexplicably and always at the worst time it would sound like what we are talking about with this phasing thing, and no manor of futzing on the gig would get it back (including phase buttons) kind of discouraging. I love the mics, but I hate feedback and my ears cant take too much more of it, and it is unprofessional to let it happen on a gig, so I have huge enthusiasm for a product like the Ischell, which really comes through with a balanced compromise that sounds fantastic but for me I need a little more definition underneath with a pickup (and I really like to use the blend knob on the Felix...sometimes it is the only thing I adjust all night). Im hoping to use this pickup on the Contrabassetto because the little bass is fairly bright and so it does not need a mic , it already speaks all those frequencies really well. But when the dual pickups sound good (and the Barbera and even Wilson could get it) they add dimension that to my ears broadens the sound in a pleasing way. Ideally I would like to have the pickup work out like it is designed and have both sides go to one channel and have the mic on the other channel, and maybe that will work, but I can also see the (feedback) advantage to having two pickups going separately into a box like the Felix which affords so much control.
 
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#122
Mics and pickups produce similar, but not identical signals (as they sound different from each other). As a result, when these two signals are out of phase, they do not completely cancel each other out. Each transducer of a two-element pickup, on the other hand, does produce a more or less identical sound, so when these are out of phase the consequences are more dramatic.

Cheers,
Vincent
 
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#124
There are always phase interactions when 2 elements are used. On a Fender Jazz bass---that's the sound---the specific phase interactions. It just depends on what sounds best. Install the Yamahiko threads up both sides. Isolating the elements doesan't help with phase interactions, but I feel is necessary for electronic interaction.Try in phase or out of phase. One might be totally cool. But I doubt it. The chance of the most pleasing sound coming at zero degrees or 180 degrees is slim---but one position might sound good. At any phase position there will be losses and cancellation--no way around it. You just don't want those cancellations in important areas. A single element is always preferrable, but I haven't found one that I dig. The Yamahiko and FC are both good at one element--I do like the Yamahiko better. I really feel that worry about crosstalk with both coming through a star quad cable would be a non-issue. Whether it's two cables or one stereo---that's the least of your concerns. First--electronic buffering between two elements. Second---messing around with phase.

Electronics manufacturers supplying a 180 phase switch is kindof silly IMO. It could solve phase problems---but is highly unlikely. The EA Doubler has a vriable phase switch which is very useful for this application. I might get a box made that buffers and offers variable phase. It's on my "to do" list
 
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#125
Well Thanks you cats. I just got the pickup...ordered it on Friday it arrived today. Here is a picture comparison with the FC...Just in terms of build quality the Yamahiko is obviously made to very high specs and standards. You can tell that Mr. Yamaya, spares no expense to make the pickup as high quality as possible: although the wheel itself is a smaller diameter, everything else is beefier and more finely crafted then the FC. Obviously the threads dont match, the Y has a thicker thread and shaft. Interestingly in the directions it says that if you were to hook the system up backwards, that is with the jack connected to the G side pickup, there would be a sonic difference. Don't know but will try it. I like all the connectors and cables, very high quality. Looking forward to having it installed. (and the cord isn't white!)
 

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#126
One pickup is good as long as your bass has the right setup for a single one.
My 5-string had the soundpost rather close to the bridge when I got it and needed two element pickups for an equal volume across the strings. Later the soundpost was moved and I found that since then I could use single element pickups with a good/equal representation over all the five strings.

So it depends on the bass/setup if one element pickups work better than two element transducers. A better sound doesn't help if the higher strings don't get through because they are underrepresentated.
 
#127
Mics catch a much larger area of the top than a pickup. Similar to several pickups distributed equally over the area the mic catches.

Mixing the mic with a pickups is not as dramatic like Vunz stated before because the two signals are different from each other and fo example the "air" of the mic stays because there is almost no such frequency content in the pickup signal.
 
#129
lowfreqgeek said:
Not exactly cheap or all that small, but this is exactly what you're looking for with Hi-Z buffering, variable phase, and a couple other handy features.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

Nice! And it comes with a giant metal shoehorn screwed on top to boot!
 
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#131
So Mike since you have both pickups installed, what are you doing right now? Do you have them separate or together and how exactly do you deal with it? Are you just using one while Sonic Farm builds you a two channel super amp, does one sound better then two wired together?
 
#132
Took the Contrabassetto in to have the Yamahiko cut into it today. But Gael couldn't do it, the legs were to narrow and angled. I'd have to have a new bridge cut for it with more meat in the legs. I will do that some day, but I'm going to put it on the Big Bass.
 
#133
One interesting thing about the Yamahiko is that the pickup element is not in the disc but in the threaded shaft. I think it is in the unthreaded part but you can see that the shaft is hollow and been filled in with silicone. I plugged one of the elements in and sure enough the disc does not have the pickup. IT probably transfers a lot of its vibration. THe FC on the other hand has obviously got the piezos in the disc...
 
#134
Having the Yamahiko's installed this week... THe bass needs other work too, the edges are getting ragged, some dude at a front table sometime back kicked a hole in the upper bout....
But I hope the Y sounds good. I am encouraged by the idea that the pickup elements are in the shaft rather then the wheel of the adjuster. We'll see. If I don't like the two pickups connected (as they are designed to ) I will, I think, get another jack rather then use the stereo jack and cord. THat way I can put it on the other bass if only one element seems like the way to go.
Gotta say the build quality of the Yamahiko is miles above the FC. Definitely a boutique builder who takes the craft of the product more seriously then the profit. I love the expensive microdot connectors and really well made connection points and adjusters.
 
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#136
Totally Mike. Hey though did you try it with the SC reversed? It says in the instructions that the sound can be different depending on which sensor is first in the Signal Chain?
What would be the smallest possible box with a variable phase? There is so much equipment out there with only a reverse switch but only a few boxes with a variable phase, but I already have the preamp I want...how could I get variable phase on one channel as an fx loop in the littlest box possible?
 
#137
due to the recent talk about the two pickups..

I've been messing with my dual element Schertler Stat-B.. no matter how i put in the elements, reversed or not, phased switched or not, the sound is ruined when using both elements same time..

(that thin phasing sound occurs as soon as I even start to put in both elements..

the worst part is if I put one element on one side those strings sound louder than the other side! so I should be using two elements but I can't!
 
#138
bassfacer22 said:
due to the recent talk about the two pickups..

I've been messing with my dual element Schertler Stat-B.. no matter how i put in the elements, reversed or not, phased switched or not, the sound is ruined when using both elements same time..

(that thin phasing sound occurs as soon as I even start to put in both elements..

the worst part is if I put one element on one side those strings sound louder than the other side! so I should be using two elements but I can't!
Click to expand...

That doesn't suprise me. At one time Schertler re-tooled the pickup after it's inital release and went with a single element version for many years. I truly think that the only

way to get the Stat B Vintage to work properly is by using one of their proprietary preamps. Just my take

Ric
 
#139
im not so sure about that Ric...I have the old Schertler preamp the one that came with the original dual sensor pickup and I dont hear any difference with between that and the Felix (except that the Felix has eq) but in terms of phasing I really dont think there is any mojo in there besides gain and phantom. I could be wrong....
 
#140
I got my bass back today from Gael (Stellar Bay Area Luthier) with the Yamahiko installed, two sensors one on each leg. Initial impressions; well the E side by itself is the single best piezo I ever heard. Way better then the FC (IMHO) due partly to the fact that the sensor is in the shaft rather the wheel (the FC can sound hyperlive like a contact mic with too much finger noise or touch attack or whatever you want to call it. The sensor has this big powerful sound, super ballsy, and yet like all of what Mike said it has the right thump to make you feel good (through an MAS speaker which by itself is a huge part of the sound) You can play really soft and delicate and still get a nice thump or pull really hard, it seems to have a certain headroom for playing different ways. What Mike said about phasing is all there: two elements plugged together are way more midrangy and half as thumpy and you can hear the phasing canceling out some bass frequencies...But you can put them back again with eq and the truth is there is something very cooly stereo about two sensors.
I tried the pickups backwards and forwards and one at a time I even used the xlr jack off my DPA 4099 (which has those microdot connectors) and heres what I can tell you so far about one vs. two: One is probably all anyone really needs BUT two mixed separately (and eq'd separately) gets you twice as much goodness, it might be too much I'll have to buy the other jack and really try them both out eq'd and phased but this pickup sounds really really good. Reminds me of the Barbera in terms of clarity and rich direct sound (but the Barbera had all of the too close to the strings problems)
What I like about this pickup: It is really versatile, it is in a bomb proof super well made adjuster that is easy to turn, the cable system is rocking (un screw it before you make adjustments and never have to worry you are going to break the (ugly white FC) cord, it sounds as good or way better then a Stat B on its best day, It does not have much piezo whine (less then any other piezo I have used) Yet it has super clarity and dynamics.
Cons: so far none I can see or hear except that too sensors together the way it is made, gets you into phasing problems but we knew that.
A note on the phasing thing....a lot of cats dig that midrangy sound because it cuts through. THis pick up with both sensors is not TERRIBLE as Mike said (and cut the mids and add a little bass) although I can see why he said that compared to one sensor (or two with phasing taken care of) the sound still has many of the nice characteristics just with some cancelation of frequencies in there. If I were Dave Holland I'd retire the Underwood and get the double sensor version and it would still (with the phasing) be just as ballsy but way more representational.
I have no idea how Eddie gets this pickup to sound that...uh...way...midrange BOOST?
anyway, would I recommend selling your FC or Underwood or STAT B or Wilson, or Gage or any other piezo and getting this one (at least the E side)?
Oh hell yeah, this thing covers all that territory much better.
But I dont really use piezos by themselves (although with this I might) I almost always use them under a mic (Ischell, Remic, DPA) I tried it with the Remic which was on that bass and it sounds totally awesome. Gunna do some gigs like this then try it with the Ischell.

.....Just amending this to say that so far, I really like the two element version wired together phasing or not. Thru the Felix into the MAS 46 this pickup is crazy good for a piezo, really for anything. Not terrible at all with both wired together, in fact it has this stereo V8 punch that is super addictive. I have not heard a piezo with this clarity and lack of quack before, totally killing....
 
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