Yet another tonewood post

[Fun Size Nick]

A failed test in science/engineering is very useful and valid and is a core part of the scientific method.

This is true, but I don't think it's that relevant to this. In terms of public science communication, presenting a failed test on its own, especially without acknowledging it in big bold letters upfront as a failure brought on by the tester's lack of competence in performing the test, is misleading at best. I would suggest that this test failed because it didn't actually test what it set out to test (the difference that pickups would make), but rather tested whether pickups wired incorrectly sound like pickups wired correctly (they don't).

 

[Snert]

In terms of public science communication, presenting a failed test on its own, especially without acknowledging it in big bold letters upfront as a failure brought on by the tester's lack of competence in performing the test, is misleading at best.

Sort of agree, but I'm used to reading engineering papers and the footnotes and addendum to check all of it. It would probably be worth LEL doing a short extra piece explaining this and linking it in the original video. Dunno his circumstances and maybe he can't repeat it the full test, corrected, for logistical reasons.

I saw this vid when it came out but am using an account with limited bandwidth so not reviewing it again now until I get settled again post house move and have proper net again.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Sort of agree, but I'm used to reading engineering papers and the footnotes and addendum to check all of it. It would probably be worth LEL doing a short extra piece explaining this and linking it in the original video. Dunno his circumstances and maybe he can't repeat it the full test, corrected, for logistical reasons.

I'm used to this sort of reading as well, but the average Joe isn't....sadly this sort of video just becomes a bad data point that people use to base opinions/decisions on. Agree that an extra piece would be helpful, but if it's not possible, I think if you have over 24k subscribers listening to what you have to say, the responsible thing to do would be to take the video down until you can correct it.

 

[Snert]

Agree that an extra piece would be helpful

Yeah, what I meant was a 30 sec extra video that would go out to all his subscribers, like me, to notify us, that would explain the error. Then go back to the original and add that into the beginning of it, or at least into the notes below.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Lowend lobster put Rickenbacker pickups in a Harley Benton bass. It did not sound like a ric. So I guess the wood, the scale length and type of materials clearly make a difference

What I’ve understood by watching this video:

1. The author should have tuned the strings better after the installation of the Rick pickups on the HB bass.
2. The Rick pickups output seems to be higher than that of the original, HB pickups.
3. For a better HB vs. Rick tone comparison the author should have installed on the HB a full Rick control harness.

Having said that, for what I know, a Rick is made of maple .. what wood type the HB bass is made of? (this is the order of importance of the wood type for judging the overall tone of an amplified stringed instrument IMO).

For the OP —> if you truly want a Rick, save your money and buy one !

Note:

I didn’t know the author of the video didn’t connect the pickups correctly ahah.
I believe it should be shot again then

 

[Chickenwheels]

Polishing your frets changes your overall tone. Every little detail counts.

 

[Roger W]

I painted the tuners on one one of my basses black. The tone is much darker now.

 

[KevinDBassist]

Would a tort pick guard on my pj bass change the tone ?

 

[revd]

You day job changes your tone too.

IMO, engineers who play bass sound different, regardless of their chosen timber.

 

[Ekulati]

One day, the Talkbass collective may finally understand that an instrument’s tone is a mixture of all its characteristics. It’s not about pickups. It’s not about wood. It’s not even about technique. It’s about all of those things and many other factors.

True. And moreover if it were possible to somehow definitely analyze, we'd find that the various factors VARY in importance, with some having more effect on the sound and others having less, but still some.

On a solid body instrument -- as opposed to a HOLLOW ACOUSTIC instrument -- I'd put the body wood somewhere in the middle of the ranking of importance.

This is a perfect example of "Internet mis-learning." Somewhere, sometime back, someone read something on an acoustic guitar forum about "tonewood" and mis-appropriated the term, migrating it into these discussions of instruments with bodies made of slabs of wood 1 1/2 to two inches thick, as opposed to the very thin SOUNDBOARDS of acoustic instruments which generate the MAJORITY of the sound. And here we are.

 

[el murdoque]

Lowend lobster put Rickenbacker pickups in a Harley Benton bass. It did not sound like a ric. So I guess the wood, the scale length and type of materials clearly make a difference

Someone took a bass and a Chinese copy that is 1/10th of the price and when he swapped out the pickups, the copy did not sound like the original? How surprising!

 

[DOMIT]

So... he starts out playing Roundabout... a few points there:

1) He ain't Chris Squire
2) He isn't using a pick
3) He ain't Chris Squire
4) He's playing substantially more towards the neck
5) He ain't Chris Squire
6) He's not doubling the track with a guitar (which was done per Chris Squire interview - Note that they sound different live!)
7) He ain't Chris Squire
8) As previously mentioned by others, pickup phase was wired wrong
9) He ain't Chris Squire
10) Did I mention the fact that he ain't Chris Squire?

IMHO this is a very "slanted" take on the topic.

A more useful comparison would be to play the Rick with stock pickups vs. the HB with Rick pickups back-to-back with all settings on the instrument and amp the same... and not to try to demonstrate how "different" it is by playing an iconic bass line differently than it was played by the original artist to show how "wrong" the sound is.

 

[micguy]

Rics have their pickups in different locations than most basses - the comb filtering is very different when you change the location of a pickup. So, putting Ric pickups in another bass( even if you wire them correctly) is not anywhere close to a “tone wood” test, as there’s a known variable ( and a very strong one at that) that is uncontrolled.

It’s (like a lot of other experiments in this arena) bad science.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Does a P sound like a P because of it body shape or because of its pickups? Woods will contribute to the overall tone, but the majority of the tone is in the electronics.

 

[tvbop]

Irrespective of wood, PU's strings etc etc, the one thing I think makes the real difference is the back to front thickness of the neck. Ive owned a good few modern P basses with the skinny neck and they all sound the same. My new CV 70's P has a thick neck and sounds different...better, punchier.

 

[FirewalZ]

Its the subtractive effect any component has on the vibration of the strings

 

[lomo]

I’m just going to keep sharing this on any tone-wood threads:

The beauty of intellectually rigorous thought and the motivation to patiently see it through. The Elegance of simplicity.
Thank you!

 

[Discount Bassy]

One day, in the distant future, when the robots have long since conquered the planet, an AI collective will struggle to finally resolve the tone wood debate in the absence of instruments and trees.

 

[bucephylus]

“Tone” can mean many things; thus, is a source of endless argumentation.

Electric bass guitar tracks can generally not be audibly differentiated in blindfold recordings with respect to the construction materials. In other words, I can’t generally differentiate ash bodied basses from alder bodied basses on recordings. Thus, “tonewoods” don’t matter.

Except, there are extreme exceptions. For example, this all metal bass with a P pickup doesn’t sound much like a wooden P bass.



At the same time and not directly related, electric bass guitars are highly sensitive to materials of construction, with respect to the interaction that happens between the player and the instrument while playing. This interaction does not get captured in the audio tracking. In this respect, the “tonewoods” matter a lot.

Those new to this argument can go around in circles for days on end between these two quite different aspects. I suppose that makes for great entertainment, of a sort.

 

[Barticus]

I'm used to this sort of reading as well, but the average Joe isn't....sadly this sort of video just becomes a bad data point that people use to base opinions/decisions on. Agree that an extra piece would be helpful, but if it's not possible, I think if you have over 24k subscribers listening to what you have to say, the responsible thing to do would be to take the video down until you can correct it.

Maybe the focus is on click bait and growing the 24k subs vs. accurate info… look at all of the comments the video has generated here let alone on YT. There’s no way to replace or edit a video once it’s published, but you can reference another video with a pop up.