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YoshiBass #2: A Headless Xmas Tree

Reading the title, i gotta say i'm wee disappointed it's not shaped like a xmas tree :p But looks cool, i'd make the lights change colour to reflect xmas lights & such. Would be cool if it could be painted to change colour everytime like lights hahaha. But then i'd go blind i'm sure xD
Sorry, the xmas tree / lights idea went out the window when I decided on doing it fretless :( I didn't really see the point in leds on the lovely fretless board, and even thought it would be distracting, I plan on doing a 6 string fretted twin which will have lights and pzaz, don't you worry.

Actually, this bass fits in a guitar bag. I'm going to build the fretted twin then get a 2 guitar carry case ( eg Invalid Link Removed ) and be well equipped for any situation!
 
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I've attached the strap locks (the bass doesn't just balance: it "sticks" to you in whatever position you like. Incredible!)

I also finished routing out the cavity box, and then drilled the holes for the 5 circuit modifiers: a volume, mid, and stacked bass/treble pots and 2 switches for pickup config and mid selection. I had to plane the top down quite abit to get the pot/switch threads through enough to screw in.

It's coming on great! This axe is full of mistakes, but is going smoother than build one.
holes.jpeg


I'm thinking of using Danish oil to finish this. I want a natural but shiny finish. Is it a good choice?
 
I've attached the strap locks (the bass doesn't just balance: it "sticks" to you in whatever position you like. Incredible!)

I also finished routing out the cavity box, and then drilled the holes for the 5 circuit modifiers: a volume, mid, and stacked bass/treble pots and 2 switches for pickup config and mid selection. I had to plane the top down quite abit to get the pot/switch threads through enough to screw in.

It's coming on great! This axe is full of mistakes, but is going smoother than build one.
View attachment 713688

I'm thinking of using Danish oil to finish this. I want a natural but shiny finish. Is it a good choice?
Danish oil is difficult to get shiny in my experience, I'd try tru-oil
 
Danish oil is difficult to get shiny in my experience, I'd try tru-oil
Great suggestions thanks! Do you have any photos of work you've done with Tru Oil (and hopfully Danish oil too)? How so is Tru Oil not-difficult to get shiny? In terms of sheen, I am after a Warwick type natural finish (on bubinga/ovangkol but I'm sure the wood doesn;t matter too much regarding finish?).

I used tung oil on my first build, which left a really rustic dull finish (and still smells like it was deep fried).
 
Great suggestions thanks! Do you have any photos of work you've done with Tru Oil (and hopfully Danish oil too)? How so is Tru Oil not-difficult to get shiny? In terms of sheen, I am after a Warwick type natural finish (on bubinga/ovangkol but I'm sure the wood doesn;t matter too much regarding finish?).

I used tung oil on my first build, which left a really rustic dull finish (and still smells like it was deep fried).
My most recent build was Danish-oil. I've never used tru-oil before but the guitar maker I work for has and it's comparable to French polish in appearance and durability.
 
Ben,

Long time no talk my friend! Love the progress, you're doing some great stuff. Saw your questions about finishes and thought I'd jump in…Tru Oil is great stuff, I use it on all my necks and really have had some great success with it. You mentioned using Danish oil for the natural look but had some problems getting it to look "shiny."

The reason why is that Danish oil absorbs into the pores of the wood but doesn't really form true a hard film finish over the surface of the wood. And when you see a shiny surface on an instrument, it's an unblemished layer over the top of the wood vs. something that's absorbed into it that you're seeing.

If you're feeling up for experimenting - you can actually make your own version of Tru Oil at home. Might be a more cost effective solution if you're going to be putting multiple coats onto the bass body. Here's how you do it…

Mix equal parts of the following:

-Boiled Linseed Oil
-Clear Gloss Varnish (here in the States it's easily foundnd it under the Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore brands - not sure about UK availability)

Then add some mineral spirits to thin it out slightly, and two or three drops of Japan drier.

Stir it up, and then wipe on with a lint free cloth, and you're basically applying a variant of Tru-Oil. Do about four coats like this, then mix up a second batch…only this time, decrease the amount of boiled linseed oil relative to the gloss varnish. You're now going to be able to build protective topcoats much, much faster.

After 12 coats or so, let it cure for three weeks, and then carefully buff out (more on this later). You'll be left with a beautiful finish like this:

526904_10150836664697130_460663601_n.jpg


319891_10150860544082130_439868781_n.jpg


Let me know if you have questions my friend!

Lonnybass
 
Ben,

Long time no talk my friend! Love the progress, you're doing some great stuff. Saw your questions about finishes and thought I'd jump in…Tru Oil is great stuff, I use it on all my necks and really have had some great success with it. You mentioned using Danish oil for the natural look but had some problems getting it to look "shiny."

The reason why is that Danish oil absorbs into the pores of the wood but doesn't really form true a hard film finish over the surface of the wood. And when you see a shiny surface on an instrument, it's an unblemished layer over the top of the wood vs. something that's absorbed into it that you're seeing.

If you're feeling up for experimenting - you can actually make your own version of Tru Oil at home. Might be a more cost effective solution if you're going to be putting multiple coats onto the bass body. Here's how you do it…

Mix equal parts of the following:

-Boiled Linseed Oil
-Clear Gloss Varnish (here in the States it's easily foundnd it under the Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore brands - not sure about UK availability)

Then add some mineral spirits to thin it out slightly, and two or three drops of Japan drier.

Stir it up, and then wipe on with a lint free cloth, and you're basically applying a variant of Tru-Oil. Do about four coats like this, then mix up a second batch…only this time, decrease the amount of boiled linseed oil relative to the gloss varnish. You're now going to be able to build protective topcoats much, much faster.

After 12 coats or so, let it cure for three weeks, and then carefully buff out (more on this later). You'll be left with a beautiful finish like this:

526904_10150836664697130_460663601_n.jpg


319891_10150860544082130_439868781_n.jpg


Let me know if you have questions my friend!

Lonnybass

Thanks Lon! Really enjoying the bass building. I am absolutely still at "rookie learning by making mistakes" stage...I suspect it's going to take another 10 basses before I can make something of real quality.

That finish looks great and is pretty much what I was hoping to achieve with this build. I think for now I'll buy tru oil... i've enough weird and wonderful projects going on in my one bedroom flat without adding chemistry/alchemy to the list!

Would tru oil have the same application/waiting schedule as above? Do you need to sand it down between layers, or just buff (with some soft steel wool i assume?).
 
Thanks Lon! Really enjoying the bass building. I am absolutely still at "rookie learning by making mistakes" stage...I suspect it's going to take another 10 basses before I can make something of real quality.

That finish looks great and is pretty much what I was hoping to achieve with this build. I think for now I'll buy tru oil... i've enough weird and wonderful projects going on in my one bedroom flat without adding chemistry/alchemy to the list!

Would tru oil have the same application/waiting schedule as above? Do you need to sand it down between layers, or just buff (with some soft steel wool i assume?).

Don't worry about the "Rookie by Mistakes" phase - a whole bunch of us on here are still in it, and probably always will be!

In answer to your question, yes you want to follow a similar application and waiting schedule. Assuming you are able to get even coats applied (no drips or sags), you shouldn't need to do more than a light scuff with 0000 steel wool in between each layer.

I found a great video online which demonstrates a Tru Oil finish, check this out…



I see a lot of guys doing 30 or 40 coats of Tru Oil but this seems like total overkill to me. I think 10 coats should do the trick assuming you're applying thin, even layers. In terms of knowing when it's ready to buff…if you can smell it, it's still curing. And if the finish abrades as you buff, it's still "soft" and needs more time to harden up.

Let me know what you think!

Lonnybass
 
Don't worry about the "Rookie by Mistakes" phase - a whole bunch of us on here are still in it, and probably always will be.
Lonnybass

Awesome video, thanks! Looks like exactly the kind of finish I want for this axe. I won't be doing the finish for some time, but I'll get these questions out the way well in advance...

The step between layer 2 and 3 confuses me a bit: why scuff it and make it cloudy and then put another coat on that scuffed layer? seeing as it's transparent, wouldn't you want every layer nice and smooth/clear?

In the video he mentions end grain typically requires double the coats of the top etc. Do you find the same? Do you wet sand in between end grain layers as he mentions?

Could this be applied to the ebony board too? OR is that a tremendously stupid idea (with roundwounds)?

Any tip/equipment recommendation for hand buffering? Maybe find someone's poodle!

And another quick question - do you put this into the neck pocket, or avoid that area completely? I assume I should plug up all screw holes too!
 
Awesome video, thanks! Looks like exactly the kind of finish I want for this axe. I won't be doing the finish for some time, but I'll get these questions out the way well in advance...

The step between layer 2 and 3 confuses me a bit: why scuff it and make it cloudy and then put another coat on that scuffed layer? seeing as it's transparent, wouldn't you want every layer nice and smooth/clear?

In the video he mentions end grain typically requires double the coats of the top etc. Do you find the same? Do you wet sand in between end grain layers as he mentions?

Could this be applied to the ebony board too? OR is that a tremendously stupid idea (with roundwounds)?

Any tip/equipment recommendation for hand buffering? Maybe find someone's poodle!

And another quick question - do you put this into the neck pocket, or avoid that area completely? I assume I should plug up all screw holes too!

Hey buddy! Glad the video helps. I wish youtube was around when i was starting out, it would have made my life MUCH easier.

Good question regarding the scuff sanding. The reason is that oil-based finishes like this are typically slow drying, and unless you're set up with a REALLY good spray booth, it's just about impossible to apply these kinds of finishes without little airborne dust particles settling on the surface.

So, the scuff sanding allows you to knock off these particles while still leaving protective oil over the top of the wood. Don't worry about it appearing cloudy though, because the shine will come right back up when you apply the next topcoat.

I definitely use the wet sanding technique on both end grain and porous topwoods - it helps build a slurry that is slightly thicker than the oil itself, and helps seal up open grain that would otherwise simply drink up thinned finish product. I remember doing a top wood of movingui that required probably two or three wet sanding stages before the pores were all sealed up.

It's really helpful when finishing to use a desk lamp on your workbench that you can point across the surface at any angle, because it can come in handy to see low spots or end grain that isn't fully sealed up. These areas are typically matte in appearance relative to the rest of the finished wood, so you know you have to hit those areas with more finish before you can proceed to buffing.

I would't put Tru Oil over ebony. I can't remember if you were planning this thing to be fretless or not, but assuming it will be, you should be ok with a raw unfinished ebony fingerboard ASSUMING you're using nickel strings only. It will still show some wear over time, but nickel won't chew up the wood. I've really liked DR Sunbeams (nickel rounds) on fretless, incredibly warm sounding and well suited for natural unfinished boards.

Hand buffing, start working out those arms now my friend. :) The trick to buffing out a finish is that you are going to use a progressively finer set of sandpaper to create a progressively finer scratch pattern. My own finishing strategy for a nice medium glossy shine is generally 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000 and then compound and wax. That's right, it's like 10 sanding steps going from medium coarse to ultra fine. Lots of elbow grease! But worth it in the end. A high gloss finish is just a surface that has been sanded with a scratch pattern so small that it appears unblemished to the eye. Getting to this stage is why the rubout is so complex and time consuming.

Just be careful you don't linger too long in any one spot or you'll get the dreaded witness lines and have to recoat the entire thing, and start the curing process over again.

One last pointer which I suggested to someone else recently - I've learned that it's always better to use a coarser grit with lighter pressure than a finer grit with heavy pressure. This is where witness lines typically rear their ugly head…when you're using something ultra fine like 1000 grit and pushing down really hard to smooth out the surface. Next thing you know, you've got a nasty white crater that will only go away with more topcoats.

Lonnybass
 
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Hey buddy! Glad the video helps. I wish youtube was around when i was starting out, it would have made my life MUCH easier.

thanks again Lon, you've been a tremendous help through my builds for sure.

I have got some tru oil and have spent 40 mins for 3 nights in a row hand sanding the body down with "coarse grit" sandpaper. Going to move on to "medium" and then "fine" and get working the tru oil in.

Further progress:
I've drilled the hole for the jack and spent an unhealthy amount of time making a cavity cover. I made this cover from a thin slice of the neck laminate, so it too has a iroko/wenge/iroko stripe that matches the neck and looks really good. I've also routed a separate chamber for the 9v battery (just one for now) which will power the Aguilar OBP3 (the Nordstrand MM 5 is passive). I opted for a somewhat cheesy plastic battery box, but I dig it. I'll get some pics shortly..!

Actually, I've a gig early Dec that I'm hoping to debut this bass at. We've a couple of songs that sound great on fretless so I'm keen to have it ready (not nexessarily 100% finessed) for then. I've now got all the parts and done all the heavy work so it should be doable!
 
Work's going great on this. I have spent several 30 min sessions sanding the body over the last week or so, hoping to apply layer one of tru oil tomorrow. Also spent several more sessions sanding the ebony board to as flat as my steel rule... that took a lot of elbow grease and a lot of black powder/oil all over my hands, face - everywhere!

Something that troubled me was the thickness of the neck heel on the back, so I took my router to the front bit (ie closest bit to the head) and trimmed it down about 8mm then sanded it out. It looks and feels a lot better.

Also, I did a set up and hardwired the pickup to the jack and had a sneak preview - it sounds incredible. I was really shocked at how good it sounded to be honest. Really looking forward to setting up the OBP3 preamp and giving it some welly.

Pictures coming soon... !
 
I wired up the pickup/preamp and had a quick play. There is a lot of noise that needs grounding properly, which I'm on with next.

something I've noticed is that the Nordstrand MM pickup output is extremly low... about 50% volume of my other basses (which are active; this is passive). The output seemed much higher when I hardwired the pickup to the jack, as oposed to through the Aguilar OBP3 preamp as it is now. Any obvious explanation for this? perhaps just dodgy soldering job?
 
How close is the pickup to the strings? I would expect a "dodgy soldering job" to manifest as shorts - cutting in and out - rather than an overall reduction of signal. But I've been wrong once or twice before.... ;) Are you positive you wired the OBP3 correctly? What value pots did you use?
 
How close is the pickup to the strings? I would expect a "dodgy soldering job" to manifest as shorts - cutting in and out - rather than an overall reduction of signal. But I've been wrong once or twice before.... ;) Are you positive you wired the OBP3 correctly? What value pots did you use?
Yes, double checked the wiring with the OBP diagram and the Nordstrand MM diagram. The only pot I used that didn't come with the preamp is a 250 vol pot. The space between strings and pickups is maybe 3 or 4mm, will clarify tonight.

Is there any obvious wiring error that would/could result in a loss of sound?
 
Did you wire the 250 volume pot between the pickup and the preamp, or between the preamp and the jack? Should be the former.