You think the audience doesn't notice? Think again!

[dukeorock]

At the end I still think Jimmy is wrong.

Don´t caring about the audience's opinion on your bass tone doesn't mean you are disrespectful.
He thinks doing what you want with your sound is a crime against the audience.
I dont agree.
A musician shows respect giving the 100% in the performance.
But he is free of using the sound he wants and giving a **** about a random guy opinion about that.
Audience are not bass techs.

I don't remember Jimmy saying any such thing.

Cramps, exactly. You thought the singer, Lux, might kill you.
His last gig in London, in his sixties, he was THROWING cymbals and stands at the audience and the music newspaper reviewer said it was shockingly dangerous, that someone could easily have been seriously injured.
The critic gave the gig five stars lol

I was in a band that got sued several times, banned from venues, etc. there are a lot of ways to 'entertain' and present a point of view. The first time I saw the Cramps I was terrified. How amazing is it that some skinny dude could illicit such a response. It went a long way to shape how I viewed the different possibilities of performance.

 

[Son of Wobble]

I don't remember Jimmy saying any such thing.



I was in a band that got sued several times, banned from venues, etc. there are a lot of ways to 'entertain' and present a point of view. The first time I saw the Cramps I was terrified. How amazing is it that some skinny dude could illicit such a response. It went a long way to shape how I viewed the different possibilities of performance.

Definitely not suggesting anyone try this at home.

And you are of course right about insurance and liabilty issues.

None of which i personally thought about when hanging out a second story window drunk by my fingertips when i was 17.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Just put me on ignore
Works great!

NEVER!
I like your comments, I like your sarcasm, your irony.

We are on the same boat - let's be friends.

(About that "ignore" checkmark. It so funny when a TB member who put that "ignore" checkmark starts asking other TB members, "What information, What sheet, What comment?", etc... Who are talking to?

Can't say I've noticed you once in all the years I've been here.

LUCKY YOU!

You must be on DB?

Only in my dreams.

 

[oldmetalhead]

EDIT: Sorry if posted in the wrong forum. Had no idea where to post it.

Did a gig last night at an outdoor venue at The Villages in Fla (a big giant retirement community) that I play once a month, and we get a lot of regulars. I've been using my Hammersmith with a very dead set of Dunlop Super Bright Nickels there pretty much exclusively most of the year. Tonight I got a wild hair and brought out my modded 76 Precision with a newish set of the same strings instead. Both these basses have Geezer PJ's, and to me they sound about the same when the strings have comparable wear. Everything else was the same as usual...REDDI into the PA, same pedals I've been using all year set the same way and used in the same songs, same sound tech we usually have there and the same PA, which is a decent but not particularly great PA (a souped-up and somewhat customized Bose PA...one of the bigwigs of the Bose family lives at the Villages and has the ear of the family who owns the Villages).

I probably had 20 people who are regulars at our gigs come up to me on break and ask me how come the Fender sounded so much edgier and aggressive than the Hammersmith. Only one of them plays an instrument, and while most were guys, plenty of women said the same thing.

So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences. Of course, I have been saying that for years, but now I've got proof. A big outdoor venue with about 3000 people there in various states of inebriation, and several non-musicians noticed that the strings on the Fender made it sound edgier.

The lesson I learned is I need to change my strings more often The lesson YOU should learn is that if you think your audience is so stupid that they can't tell the difference in your sound no matter what you use, maybe they're not the stupid ones.

Happy holidays, everyone!

EDIT: Sorry if posted in the wrong forum. Had no idea where to post it.

Did a gig last night at an outdoor venue at The Villages in Fla (a big giant retirement community) that I play once a month, and we get a lot of regulars. I've been using my Hammersmith with a very dead set of Dunlop Super Bright Nickels there pretty much exclusively most of the year. Tonight I got a wild hair and brought out my modded 76 Precision with a newish set of the same strings instead. Both these basses have Geezer PJ's, and to me they sound about the same when the strings have comparable wear. Everything else was the same as usual...REDDI into the PA, same pedals I've been using all year set the same way and used in the same songs, same sound tech we usually have there and the same PA, which is a decent but not particularly great PA (a souped-up and somewhat customized Bose PA...one of the bigwigs of the Bose family lives at the Villages and has the ear of the family who owns the Villages).

I probably had 20 people who are regulars at our gigs come up to me on break and ask me how come the Fender sounded so much edgier and aggressive than the Hammersmith. Only one of them plays an instrument, and while most were guys, plenty of women said the same thing.

So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences. Of course, I have been saying that for years, but now I've got proof. A big outdoor venue with about 3000 people there in various states of inebriation, and several non-musicians noticed that the strings on the Fender made it sound edgier.

The lesson I learned is I need to change my strings more often The lesson YOU should learn is that if you think your audience is so stupid that they can't tell the difference in your sound no matter what you use, maybe they're not the stupid ones.

Happy holidays, everyone!

While most can't hear any subtle differences they can hear changes. I just did my first gig with a new band who had been using a hired gun on bass. Nice setup, Fender Jazz, some effects, nice GK head. Former guitar player that uses a pick (Not a bad thing). His band plays more blues/ southern rock so he had to learn about 40 new sonfs. But like so many converts plays things with a guitarist ear and style. I can play a few chords on a guitar but was always a bassist. I brought my new Schecter Stiletto stage 4 to compliment the 03 studio 4. Still using my Line 6 bass pod xl live petalboard and GK/Hartke combo. I play finger style. But the crowd noticed the differences. I think mostly because of playing the actual bass line, not always following the guitar in octave and so forth. Also utilizing my hipshot to play the low d in needed spots. Did try a 5 string once, not for me. While I do have certain effects for a couple of songs my main sound is fairly consistent. I do notice a sound difference when I use my Ibanez for the metal, but it fits the songs. But I do agree that fresh strings and a different wood can make a big difference. It may have just made you stand out more with a better tone.

 

[Tom Magri]

Play the right notes, set well in the mix and lock in with the drummer and you will likely have great "tone". I do respect the places & audiences we play to but don't think this obsession some players have with the P sound & the Rick sound yada yada yada makes a difference to the vast majority of listeners. I listen to other bands and when hearing a good bass player have never thought...if the bassist only used a "fill in the blank" bass or "fill in the blank" strings they would have sounded great. I go back to my first sentence...

 

[happygilmour]

You said they commented you were edgier and aggressive. Is that a positive comment? Sounds like they might like the more dead thump?

 

[pwhalen]

I am not making the claim that the majority of people noticed a difference. However, those who are making the point that only 20/3000 people noticed being an accurate number are ignoring an important fact about audiences and people in general.

I would argue more people noticed than 20, perhaps many more (still not saying a large percentage by any means). 20 people actually said something to Jimmy. How many people noticed and didn't approach the bassist? I notice things and notice others converse about music, and we don't necessarily have the time or desire to always go up to someone and say "Hey, your bass sounds edgier today."

Again, maybe 50-100 people noticed out of 3000, maybe more, maybe only 20. I just bet if 20 people actually went out of their way to say something, probably many more noticed (though still a significant minority of the audience).

First you have to account for the sample inflation in an attempt to use this story to make a point. So if he says 20 said something, it was maybe 8 - 12.

Here's the thing though. When people say the audience doesn't notice, it's usually in relation to the person in question creating some other shortfall in pursuit of their tone. If you can get your tone without wasting other people's time no one is going to care and the subject never even comes up. If the subject comes up because you are taking excessive time during setup, or tweaking knobs between each song then what is actually being said is "The audience doesn't notice your tone (nearly as much as they notice all the dead space you require to find it)".

 

[wouter12]

I play a Sandberg TM2 and still have the original strings on them. Bought some new strings and they were awful. I can't figure out how a well known brand could sound so bad new out of the pack. Needless to say I am not likely to change my strings any time soon. I did read that Jamerson never changed his strings and he didn't sound bad, soo what gives?

 

[ChrisWright]

The Villages!!!! OMG!!! Don't get hit by a wayward golf cart while you're there.

For those of you who have never been to FL and visited this place, it is beyond description.

Is it a notable tourist attraction? I've never even heard of it.

It's a mega retirement community best known for rampant social diseases amongst the elderly. And ... for discerning bass enthusiasts who demand new strings every for or five years.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

bass enthusiasts who demand new strings every for or five years.

Lucky ones - just every five years.
For me - 2 - 3 weeks for the D and G strings, and 6 to 8 weeks for the A string and 8 - 10 weeks for the E string

 

[bigtwnvin]

I'm more impressed that 20 people knew that you had another bass than usual.

Because I like the sound and feel of each of them, I rack five instruments. 4 Fours and a Five including an Elec/ Acoustic four. I'm an old fool from the old school and different grooves call for a different vibe and I don't use foot pedals to change tones; I'm too busy anyway trying to pay attention.
Nobody ever comments on the difference in the sound each of the instruments produces outside of the band. A drummer I have played with and known for nearly 43 years loves the sound of the Five and I must say when it's pumping, those six lower tones do enhance a rhythm!

 

[bigtwnvin]

If it was your first time with a fretless, maybe they were being polite.

I saw what you did there.

 

[Vara La Fey]

PUH-REACH IT BROTHER!! Never have I seen anyone with a future - or even a present - say "aww, the audience doesn't know the difference" about something that's even remotely obvious to a musician in that same audience.

I was still in my teens when a big city bar band came to my small town and claimed that several covers were their own songs, and that's what they told my friend and I when I called them on it after their set: "oh, they don't know the difference", gesturing to the dispersing crowd from which I and my friend had just come, and among which were others who also knew the difference. I've hated that attitude ever since.

Audiences DO know, even if they generally couldn't articulate the specifics. The bands that make it even just to the higher levels of the club scene are tighter and more together, and sound better and look better and perform better, than those that don't. If you want to know how good your band really is, and it's been regularly gigging 6 months or so, then just look at where you consistently are in the pecking order. Excuses and mitigating factors didn't put you there; audiences did.

They're out there.... and they know....

 

[Kenneth McKim]

EDIT: Sorry if posted in the wrong forum. Had no idea where to post it.

Did a gig last night at an outdoor venue at The Villages in Fla (a big giant retirement community) that I play once a month, and we get a lot of regulars. I've been using my Hammersmith with a very dead set of Dunlop Super Bright Nickels there pretty much exclusively most of the year. Tonight I got a wild hair and brought out my modded 76 Precision with a newish set of the same strings instead. Both these basses have Geezer PJ's, and to me they sound about the same when the strings have comparable wear. Everything else was the same as usual...REDDI into the PA, same pedals I've been using all year set the same way and used in the same songs, same sound tech we usually have there and the same PA, which is a decent but not particularly great PA (a souped-up and somewhat customized Bose PA...one of the bigwigs of the Bose family lives at the Villages and has the ear of the family who owns the Villages).

I probably had 20 people who are regulars at our gigs come up to me on break and ask me how come the Fender sounded so much edgier and aggressive than the Hammersmith. Only one of them plays an instrument, and while most were guys, plenty of women said the same thing.

So if I ever hear any of you jokers try to claim that the audience doesn't know or care about your sound again, I will tell you that you're a very arrogant person who has zero respect for your audiences. Of course, I have been saying that for years, but now I've got proof. A big outdoor venue with about 3000 people there in various states of inebriation, and several non-musicians noticed that the strings on the Fender made it sound edgier.

The lesson I learned is I need to change my strings more often The lesson YOU should learn is that if you think your audience is so stupid that they can't tell the difference in your sound no matter what you use, maybe they're not the stupid ones.

Happy holidays, everyone!

While we're examining the audiences ability to "hear" us, let me tell you when I became aware of how deep it runs. I was playing a pickup gig behind a country semi-star at the Lone Star Cafe in NYC (yes, that puts it at about 1978). I was not a country bass player, per se, but we rehearsed his material during the day and I felt pretty good about what was coming.

The evening went really well until someone in the audience slipped him a $20 to sing San Antonio Rose. OK, I'd heard the tune, but my connection to it was, how shall I put it - vague at best. The guitarist (his musical director) said "keep your ears open" and off we went. That song is "simple", but it will eat you alive if you aren't hand-in-hand with your cycle of fifths. We were doing just fine until I realized we were coming up to the bridge, and something big happened there - a sort of a modulation, I think. A fifth up, a fifth down - OMG which is it? Well, I went one way and the band and song went the other. I just couldn't recover - I philosophized that as long as I stayed locked with the drummer I would probably outlive this event. Besides, who really listens to the actual notes a bass player plays, anyway? Back to the verse; the song finishes; I look out at the house, everyone is smiling, applauding - no problem.

We take a break, and as I'm stowing my bass I notice an old gent in a string tie, western shirt, and a huge cowboy hat at the edge of the stage, and he's beckoning me over. As I finish put things in order my imagination races: "I'm the manager of a band in Nashville; we're looking for a bass player...", or "That attractive young lady at the table over there is my niece; she'd really like to meet you..." So with that bit of hubris in full swing I walked to the edge of the stage and knelt down. He kicked back his Stetson a notch, looked me in the eye and said "It's a might sad day when a feller don't know the San Antonio Rose". Turned and march off down the aisle.

BTW, it's a fifth UP.

 

[Vara La Fey]

If I had a sample size of one event and claimed that was proof of anything I'd probably avoid calling skeptics arrogant. Different strokes for different folks.

Nope. It's the same stroke for you too. And for all of us. Because it's not just one event, it was the jury verdict of a wider series of events that all experienced musicians are aware of, whether they try to live in denial of it or not: the audience knows more than our egos do.

National bands are tighter and more cohesive than bar bands, almost to a one. The reasons should be obvious.

 

[Gorn]

Nope. It's the same stroke for you too. And for all of us. Because it's not just one event, it was the jury verdict of a wider series of events that all experienced musicians are aware of, whether they try to live in denial of it or not: the audience knows more than our egos do.

National bands are tighter and more cohesive than bar bands, almost to a one. The reasons should be obvious.

The OP describes one event. That's what I was responding to. Data from multiple events has been discussed after the OP, but the first post talks about a single event and uses that single event as a data point to refute a position. A sample size of one ≠ science.

 

[Aing]

Jimmy M,
Your always on the ball in anything pertaining to....... Bass. Having new strings is probably the biggest factor to getting a great sound (Easier to cut frequencies and have a natural sound as opposed to adding) When does milk taste best? Right after the seal is broken.... Always helps when your playing Ampeg products also lol. When I play in festivals where there's a rig provided. I always bring my SVP Pro and MXR M80. Gotta have your sound with you. Yes, audiences will know the small differences.. Even tho some don't know what or who the bass player .

 

[bigtwnvin]

While we're examining the audiences ability to "hear" us, let me tell you when I became aware of how deep it runs. I was playing a pickup gig behind a country semi-star at the Lone Star Cafe in NYC (yes, that puts it at about 1978). I was not a country bass player, per se, but we rehearsed his material during the day and I felt pretty good about what was coming.

The evening went really well until someone in the audience slipped him a $20 to sing San Antonio Rose. OK, I'd heard the tune, but my connection to it was, how shall I put it - vague at best. The guitarist (his musical director) said "keep your ears open" and off we went. That song is "simple", but it will eat you alive if you aren't hand-in-hand with your cycle of fifths. We were doing just fine until I realized we were coming up to the bridge, and something big happened there - a sort of a modulation, I think. A fifth up, a fifth down - OMG which is it? Well, I went one way and the band and song went the other. I just couldn't recover - I philosophized that as long as I stayed locked with the drummer I would probably outlive this event. Besides, who really listens to the actual notes a bass player plays, anyway? Back to the verse; the song finishes; I look out at the house, everyone is smiling, applauding - no problem.

We take a break, and as I'm stowing my bass I notice an old gent in a string tie, western shirt, and a huge cowboy hat at the edge of the stage, and he's beckoning me over. As I finish put things in order my imagination races: "I'm the manager of a band in Nashville; we're looking for a bass player...", or "That attractive young lady at the table over there is my niece; she'd really like to meet you..." So with that bit of hubris in full swing I walked to the edge of the stage and knelt down. He kicked back his Stetson a notch, looked me in the eye and said "It's a might sad day when a feller don't know the San Antonio Rose". Turned and march off down the aisle.

BTW, it's a fifth UP.

Between 1978 & 1984 I did gigs in Nashville including the Opryland Hotel and did sessions at Woodland Sound Studios. Shared the stage with the Alabama band at a joint called the Cajuns Wharf when they released "Tennessee River" in 1980 or so. Needless to say my arse was scrutinized by studio cats, producers, wannabe players, you name it. Trust me, that 'ol boy in the Stetson and string tie was being kind!

 

[Vara La Fey]

Re audiences not being able to clap in time, the problem is usually the band which can't count a measure and can't play in time. And more precisely, it's usually the singer, who tends to start the "clap-along" thing anyway. I just saw a live vid of this the other day while browsing the Tube. I wish I could remember who it was.

Which should be a reminder: we all DO vidtape ourselves periodically, right? And objectively review them, right?

 

[RickJones]

Earlier this month, I read a news article about The Villages. Remember, these people who live there are in their 60's, 70's, etc. They also have the highest STD rate in the nation. I blame the OP and his edgier sound. Damn old hippies with their crazy music and poppin' Viagra...