Your feeling towards bands. The covers and orignals discussion.

[LaklandBass]

Sorry, just not going for it. As per ASCAP, the fee covers them.

Im not denying how the current legal setup works.

 

[DWBass]

I believe that the venue, lets say in this case a bar or a pub, also has to pay those ASCAP fees if they have a jukebox or play CDs. It covers all "performances" and public playing of ASCAP artists.

That is correct. I believe a sticker (signifying the fee was paid) is usually placed on the jukebox somewhere in case an ASCAP rep sneaks in to check on a venue.

 

[rmkesler]

I believe that the venue, lets say in this case a bar or a pub, also has to pay those ASCAP fees if they have a jukebox or play CDs. It covers all "performances" and public playing of ASCAP artists.

I wonder how many clubs and bars actually pay ASCAP anyway.

 

[DWBass]

Im not denying how the current legal setup works.

Do you think it's going to change?

 

[MatticusMania]

I wonder how many clubs and bars actually pay ASCAP anyway.

I have no stats on that, but I would hope they do. I read a story once, not sure if its the article linked previously, about a bar being fined pretty heavily after refusing to renew their license and having a coverband play. Though, Id imagine, as previously said, that it would not be easy to enforce.

 

[beggar98]

I believe that the venue, lets say in this case a bar or a pub, also has to pay those ASCAP fees if they have a jukebox or play CDs. It covers all "performances" and public playing of ASCAP artists.

That's a different type of license and separate rates from a live performance license.

 

[LaklandBass]

I wonder how many clubs and bars actually pay ASCAP anyway.

How many cover bands out there are actually checking to make sure that the club is licensed.
I believe somewhere earlier in the catacombs of this thread somebody stated that although the license is on the shoulders of the club both the venue and performers are held liable.

 

[DWBass]

I wonder how many clubs and bars actually pay ASCAP anyway.

I'd venture to say a good % of them do. A $1200 yearly fee is nothing to a club that stands to make 2x's-3x's that in one night! I'm sure they'll gladly pay it especially if they have really good bands playing there!

 

[beggar98]

Do you think it's going to change?

Not if no one cares. As musicians we all have a stake in protecting the value of music.

 

[whocaresnotme]

No, that's not what I said. The venue, in most instances, pays the money. But the performer can take it upon themselves to submit their set list so the PRO can distribute funds accordingly. As of now, the scale used is based on radio play and album sales. How often do you hear "Mustang Sally" on the radio? How often do you hear it covered by a band?

Are you appealing to us as a composer yourself or is this an altruistic effort? So WE should sacrifice the little bit of cash we extract from various venues on any given weekend so you and other un-named musical artists can get paid every last nickel they are owed? If you have a dog in this fight you should probably recuse yourself. Don't you think?

 

[Febs]

It didn't happen in Reno.

Somehow I knew you were going to say that. It doesn't matter whether this one example that I found rather easily through a Google search took place in Reno. The federal courts have jurisdiction over claims of copyright infringement, and ASCAP can and does file infringement actions against bars that refuse to obtain licenses.

 

[DWBass]

That's a different type of license and separate rates from a live performance license.

Not for a bar/club. It's the same.

 

[rmkesler]

I have no stats on that, but I would hope they do. I read a story once, not sure if its the article linked previously, about a bar being fined pretty heavily after refusing to renew their license and having a coverband play. Though, Id imagine, as previously said, that it would not be easy to enforce.

I would hope so too. However, I bet there are several of these club owners that would rather take the risk or getting caught than signing up with ASCAP.

 

[DWBass]

Not if no one cares. As musicians we all have a stake in protecting the value of music.

I agree but don't you think ASCAP would have been on this by now? This is not a 'new' argument!

 

[beggar98]

Are you appealing to us as a composer yourself or is this an altruistic effort? So WE should sacrifice the little bit of cash we extract from various venues on any given weekend so you and other un-named musical artists can get paid every last nickel they are owed? If you have a dog in this fight you should probably recuse yourself. Don't you think?

How many different ways do you want me to say it? You don't pay any money. The venue pays the money. You just tell the PRO who should get the venue's money. Again, you do not pay anything (unless you are hosting your own shows at an unlicensed venue, in which case you should pay).

 

[LaklandBass]

Do you think it's going to change?

It might... who knows. Probably not... but we'll find out in time either way.

 

[whocaresnotme]

Somehow I knew you were going to say that. It doesn't matter whether this one example that I found rather easily through a Google search took place in Reno. The federal courts have jurisdiction over claims of copyright infringement, and ASCAP can and does file infringement actions against bars that refuse to obtain licenses.

OK, OK, you win. But within this specific example that doesn't mean anything. They didn't pursue it, so what. I am sure that has happened a lot too. They probably busted a casino or 2 that weekend and they are a bigger pay off for "legal" extortion.

 

[LaklandBass]

OK, OK, you win. But within this specific example that doesn't mean anything. They didn't pursue it, so what. I am sure that has happened a lot too. They probably busted a casino or 2 that weekend and they are a bigger pay off for "legal" extortion.

Legal extortion? Please explain

 

[whocaresnotme]

How many different ways do you want me to say it? You don't pay any money. The venue pays the money. You just tell the PRO who should get the venue's money. Again, you do not pay anything (unless you are hosting your own shows at an unlicensed venue, in which case you should pay).

I catch your point, brother. No up front cash from me but the bar owner squeezes us for our fee based on his costs of doing business (which is legit I concede). So in effect we do pay.

Your plea still sounds altruistic, but maybe that is ok.

 

[whocaresnotme]

Legal extortion? Please explain

Sorry. Just my personal opinion of lawyers and the "law-suit happy" nature of our country. "Legal extortion" is just the expression I use to describe these kind of (IMO) frivolous law suits. Out of context but you asked.