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Zon...please advise

#21
Halftooth said:
Did Joe mention why this problem occurs, and why he only gives you a 1 year warrenty? I'm under the impression that this sort of thing isn't supposed to occur with composite materials. How severe of a relief issue was there on your basses?
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Hey Halftooth!
Good questions. Joe said this problem occurs in about 2 to 3 instruments per production year (lucky me, I got 2 of them!)

Joe said the necks are NOT the problem. The necks are stiff as a rock. It's the FINGERBOARD. It's stabilized, but it's still wood. It would be a non-issue if the basses had a truss rod in it. That's one of the main reasons I switched to a Roscoe fretless. It's got the same material fingerboard as a Zon, but I can adjust it.

The net effect from all this was that the frets would all buzz from the 13th fret and higher, but at the same time there would be too much relief around the 6th to 10th fret. I took it to a luthier and he said it would be really difficult to repair because if you take all the frets off, sand or plain out the fingerboard, put the frets back on, AND YOUR ADJUSTMENTS ARE WRONG, you could ruin the fingerboard because there would be no "going back". He said with a truss rod, you can keep the frets on and make corrections in the relief as you go. Not so with a Zon.
 
#22
Zon4John said:
Hey Halftooth!
Good questions. Joe said this problem occurs in about 2 to 3 instruments per production year (lucky me, I got 2 of them!)

Joe said the necks are NOT the problem. The necks are stiff as a rock. It's the FINGERBOARD. It's stabilized, but it's still wood. It would be a non-issue if the basses had a truss rod in it. That's one of the main reasons I switched to a Roscoe fretless. It's got the same material fingerboard as a Zon, but I can adjust it.

The net effect from all this was that the frets would all buzz from the 13th fret and higher, but at the same time there would be too much relief around the 6th to 10th fret. I took it to a luthier and he said it would be really difficult to repair because if you take all the frets off, sand or plain out the fingerboard, put the frets back on, AND YOUR ADJUSTMENTS ARE WRONG, you could ruin the fingerboard because there would be no "going back". He said with a truss rod, you can keep the frets on and make corrections in the relief as you go. Not so with a Zon.
Click to expand...

If it happens in such a limmited frequncy, then why wouldn't Joe just correct the problem and keep his customers happy? Would a PLEK possibly fix the problem? It is supposed to be a way to compensate for uneaven fret boards except it laser cuts the frets for eveness. How long did it take for the board to move?
 
#23
Halftooth said:
If it happens in such a limmited frequncy, then why wouldn't Joe just correct the problem and keep his customers happy?
Click to expand...

Man, that is the $50,000 question. I've wondered that 1,000 times myself. As far as how long did it take - I remember picking up my first Zon, a Legacy Std, and just thinking it felt different. It wasn't like Little Shop of Horrors kind of a scenario where I opened my case and it had mutated. It was subtle, but after a while I noted something was definitely different.

The second bass, I picked up as a new demo. It had been in the store for about 4 years. I took it to a luthier and he immediately pegged the relief problem and said, "Return this bass. It's not worth repairing."

And I want to say I'm not flaming anyone. I am stating 100% facts only. These findings were discovered by Carey Nordstrand on the first Zon and one of Dallas' best luthiers on the other. I have had conversations with Joe on this. They never got heated but you can understand, we definitely did NOT see eye to eye on a solution.
 
#24
I've found Joe Zon to be totally helpful in resolving issues with his basses.

I've had two situations where I bought Zons sight unseen and they had issues. Joe was more than fair in resolving them to perfection.

I would never hesitate in buying a used Zon for this reason (or a Lakland, MTD, Sadowsky, Roscoe, Pedulla, Elrick or most of our other respected high end bass luthiers).

Aloha,

Jonathan
 
#26
Jonathan Starr said:
I've found Joe Zon to be totally helpful in resolving issues with his basses.

I've had two situations where I bought Zons sight unseen and they had issues. Joe was more than fair in resolving them to perfection.

I would never hesitate in buying a used Zon for this reason (or a Lakland, MTD, Sadowsky, Roscoe, Pedulla, Elrick or most of our other respected high end bass luthiers).

Aloha,

Jonathan
Click to expand...

Well Jonathan,
Then you must have more charm than me. He wasn't going to budge an inch on ANYTHING for me. As I said, I have purchased 3 Zon basses and bought about $800 dollars worth of Zon strings. He even knows me when I call! Heck, my Talkbass nickname even has his name in it! And yet I was only quoted full repair prices to get these fingerboards fixed...and NO warranty on the work done. :scowl:






And yes, I've thought 100 times about changing my nickname. I just don't know if anyone would know who I was once it was changed.
 
#29
Zon4John said:
The net effect from all this was that the frets would all buzz from the 13th fret and higher, but at the same time there would be too much relief around the 6th to 10th fret.
Click to expand...


So this is the best way to identify this? Relief and buzz?

Is this something that can occur after a few years? In otherword can something like this happen on a 7 or 8 year old bass?
 
#31
Jonathan Starr said:
I've found Joe Zon to be totally helpful in resolving issues with his basses.

I've had two situations where I bought Zons sight unseen and they had issues. Joe was more than fair in resolving them to perfection.

I would never hesitate in buying a used Zon for this reason (or a Lakland, MTD, Sadowsky, Roscoe, Pedulla, Elrick or most of our other respected high end bass luthiers).

Aloha,

Jonathan
Click to expand...

I 'd have to agree with ya ...

Joe does a great job and I am sure his wooden neck truss rod included basses will be just as cool. I own a 5 year old Zon and have had ZERO issues with it.

Most people get bad issues with necks because the instruments aren't babied enough. (ie climate control) but nonetheless, Joe builds great stuff and his Sonus line sounds incredible no matter what situation I put her in.

So what was your issues and repair prices for your Zons Jonathan?
 
#32
Jerry J said:
So this is the best way to identify this? Relief and buzz?

Is this something that can occur after a few years? In otherword can something like this happen on a 7 or 8 year old bass?
Click to expand...

The first Zon was 4 years old when this happened. The second had been sitting in the store for about 3 or 4 years when I bought it.

I would like to add that I am a 41 year old man with three kids. My days of playing at frat parties and bars where beer is thrown at my bass are OVER! To the best of my knowledge, I took VERY good care of this bass - wiped it down after EVERY time I played it, changed the strings and battery often, kept it in the Zon gig bag, kept it in climate controlled environments (except the 1 or 2 times a year where I'd play outdoors).


Didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'm glad most of you have had good experiences with Zon.
 
#33
Zon basses are meant to be played.....just like the rest of the basses here. They're not meant to be put in a museum. In the real world they are going to be subjected to different climates, especially if you tour. With a composite neck you should have no problems with it changing it's feel. But it looks like it does happen. It would be nice to have a truss rod to counteract a possible change. Maybe Diamondwood, Phenowood, Rockwood etc, are not as stable as they are supposed to be. Maybe the are "more" stable but not totally unaffected by climate.
 
#35
Thanks so much for the info.

I'm preparing to buy my first Zon and this is the first that I've ever heard of this issue. It must not be that common. But now I'm a bit concerned. Hmmm! The cost is $400 to get the problem resolved if it occurs?
 
#36
It's not a common problem that's for sure. But it does seem to be happening more than I thought it did. I would ask Joe about it beforehand. Hey, ask him why he won't consider truss rods. Maybe if there is a demand for them he will consider it.
 
#37
Jerry J said:
So this is the best way to identify this? Relief and buzz?

Is this something that can occur after a few years? In otherword can something like this happen on a 7 or 8 year old bass?
Click to expand...


my sonus special turns 9 this year with no issues other than the wear that has come with me playing the mud out of it...

you know, it would seem to me that joe would just install another neck on these messed up basses...it's not like they're through neck instruments and he has to do open heart surgery on them or anything, right? seems like a simple fix to me...
 
#38
It does seem like a simple fix, but it will probably cost you unless it's in the warranty period. I think it has do do with the phenowood fretboard and not the neck. The neck won't budge at all or change with climate at all. It seems like the older basses with a phenolic FB don't really do this.
 
#39
neptoon said:
my sonus special turns 9 this year with no issues other than the wear that has come with me playing the mud out of it...

you know, it would seem to me that joe would just install another neck on these messed up basses...it's not like they're through neck instruments and he has to do open heart surgery on them or anything, right? seems like a simple fix to me...
Click to expand...

On the surface, it seems like a simple fix, but just putting another neck on there isn't that simple. Joe told me that each neck is custom fit to the specific bass, so there is some labor involved in getting the neck to fit the bass perfectly. 'm not justifying the $400 though for the basses with the warped necks. I still feel that if only the neck warping happens very seldomly as Joes states, he should take care of it himself and not apply a charge to the customer. This way, he looks like a stud in terms of keeping customers happy, and he will be more likely to retain his customers.
 

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