Zoom B3 As Preamp Part 2

[TitaniumRx]

Found some very useful info for the speakers:

250 watts continues for both but 95 vs 96 db axial sensitivity for the 15" .

 

[JPrinos]

Anyone ever use their B3 with a Invalid Link Removed?

 

[SemiDriven]

The B3 is continuing to open my eyes to how this unit would sound with a powered full-range speaker.

But there is a part of me that just doesn’t want to consider using a powered PA speaker. I guess my brain is just hard-wired to go the traditional route (i.e. equipment specifically designed for bass frequencies).

Is it just me or are there others who are a bit gun-shy about going that route?

What is your experience after trying / using a powered full-range speaker?

Edit: Just found Charlie's post entitled "Twice Baked". Zeroed in on this sentence: "When dealing with amplifier models and cabinet simulations as found in the B3 and MS-60B, twice-baking through your equipment is usually unavoidable when connected to typical bass amplifiers/cabinets and is why modelers work so well with uncolored, full-range equipment, such as powered PA speakers."

Edit2: And another post of Charlie's.

Edit3: More of Charlie's wisdom!

 

[CharlieC]

The B3 is continuing to open my eyes to how this unit would sound with a powered full-range speaker.

But there is a part of me that just doesn’t want to consider using a powered PA speaker. I guess my brain is just hard-wired to go the traditional route (i.e. equipment specifically designed for bass frequencies).

Is it just me or are there others who are a bit gun-shy about going that route?

What is your experience after trying / using a powered full-range speaker?

Edit: Just found Charlie's post entitled "Twice Baked". Zeroed in on this sentence: "When dealing with amplifier models and cabinet simulations as found in the B3 and MS-60B, twice-baking through your equipment is usually unavoidable when connected to typical bass amplifiers/cabinets and is why modelers work so well with uncolored, full-range equipment, such as powered PA speakers."

Edit2: And another post of Charlie's.

Edit3: More of Charlie's wisdom!

Wisdom or lunacy, that is the question!

Cheers!

 

[SemiDriven]

Wisdom or lunacy, that is the question!

Cheers!

HA!

Hey, what you say does makes sense.

I need to hear more of bassists using a B3 (or similar device) and a powered full-range speaker.

That QSC K12 has got me a thinkin'....

 

[CharlieC]

HA!

Hey, what you say does makes sense.

I need to hear more of bassists using a B3 (or similar device) and a powered full-range speaker.

That QSC K12 has got me a thinkin'....

For now, gigging bassists using only active speakers with a modeling device are in the extreme minority. I myself have yet to fully break free from traditional bass cabinets even with active options at my disposal.

The EV ZLX-12P will give you a comparable QSC K12 experience for only $399, less than half the cost of the K12.

I highly recommend a test drive with the B3, along with a side-by-side K12 comparison for that matter.

Cheers!

 

[Swift713]

Those active speakers are very tempting. However, I fear that they wouldn't keep up with my fEarful cab in the low end department. My amp is pretty transparent, my cab is as well with the exception of being tweeter less I'd really like to try out some kickin studio monitors for practice amp/coffee house use.

 

[CharlieC]

Those active speakers are very tempting. However, I fear that they wouldn't keep up with my fEarful cab in the low end department. My amp is pretty transparent, my cab is as well with the exception of being tweeter less I'd really like to try out some kickin studio monitors for practice amp/coffee house use.

I am really interested in Ed Friendland's upcoming review of his new Fearless F112 cabinet.

I hear really good things about the Fearless designs, but am waiting on some good video/demos of them before taking things further.

Cheers!

 

[Swift713]

I love my fEarless. Other cabs loose low end as you turn up, IME. These don't.

 

[SemiDriven]

For now, gigging bassists using only active speakers with a modeling device are in the extreme minority. I myself have yet to fully break free from traditional bass cabinets even with active options at my disposal.

The EV ZLX-12P will give you a comparable QSC K12 experience for only $399, less than half the cost of the K12.

I highly recommend a test drive with the B3, along with a side-by-side K12 comparison for that matter.

Cheers!

I gig weekly at a small church —similar to a coffeehouse setting.

What intrigues me about a powered full-range speaker (such as the EV ZLX-12P or QSC K12) is that it could easily carry this type of venue.

The added plus is that if over a period-of-time, a powered speaker didn’t meet my expectations, it could easily transition into the PA system as the church grows (currently our PA needs are just some wedges pointed back at the worship team).

Appears to be a win-win situation.

BTW…the EV ZLX-12P is certainly a worthy candidate — especially for the price. The QSC K12 has that bass boost (deep) feature that has me kinda leaning in that direction. Ideally it would be nice to compare them side-by-side (not sure if I’ll be able to make that happen).

 

[Malachi71]

I am really interested in Ed Friendland's upcoming review of his new Fearless F112 cabinet.

I hear really good things about the Fearless designs, but am waiting on some good video/demos of them before taking things further.

Cheers!

I'm with you on this. I'm thinking the B3/Poweramp/Fearless...Wow!

 

[Rocksolid]

Used the k12 at a gig yesterday (with PA support) with my pedal board (VT bass deluxe and ms-60b in the fx loop) and it did it easy. Not the loudest drummer I play with but loud enough. I've done a couple of gigs using the B3 rather than my board, but at this point I prefer how my board sounds, and I have more flexibility. They are a really good option to gig with. I got the bag for the k12. The b3 fits in the side pocket or in the main compartment leaving the pocket to put leads in.

 

[SemiDriven]

Used the k12 at a gig yesterday (with PA support) with my pedal board (VT bass deluxe and ms-60b in the fx loop) and it did it easy. Not the loudest drummer I play with but loud enough. I've done a couple of gigs using the B3 rather than my board, but at this point I prefer how my board sounds, and I have more flexibility. They are a really good option to gig with. I got the bag for the k12. The b3 fits in the side pocket or in the main compartment leaving the pocket to put leads in.

Do you prefer using a 4-string or 5-string when using the K12 (or it doesn't really matter). Curious how the B-string sounds in the mix.

 

[Rocksolid]

I use a 5 string with the band I gigged with yesterday, 4 string in other bands.

I find I have good balanced output across all strings. There isn't massive subsonic freqs which could level a small building, but I don't want that anyway as it makes it harder for the engineer.

The K12 has a deep switch - I tried it out when I first got it and it's too much IMO. I run a Boss GEQ-7 last thing before the K12 and have a little 120hz boosted. That is plenty for me.

 

[gard0300]

Besides a firmware update allowing more banks to be added. I would love Zoom to offer an App for the B3 and other units using the B3 format. I think it would be an awesome app. If I could tinker with settings while being on my phone. It should have the ability of plugging in your bass, adjusting the effect levels, settings, and ensure play through capability to play over mp3 apps or music apps. Yes I can do all this now while behind a computer. But having this capability on a smart phone, would be awesome. Anyone else thing this would be a great idea?

 

[SemiDriven]

Besides a firmware update allowing more banks to be added. I would love Zoom to offer an App for the B3 and other units using the B3 format. I think it would be an awesome app. If I could tinker with settings while being on my phone. It should have the ability of plugging in your bass, adjusting the effect levels, settings, and ensure play through capability to play over mp3 apps or music apps. Yes I can do all this now while behind a computer. But having this capability on a smart phone, would be awesome. Anyone else thing this would be a great idea?

+1

Just a matter of time before this happens.

Hey, if the navy can fly an Invalid Link Removed with an iPad, Zoom can develop an app for the B3!

'Course the Navy has taxpayers "investing" in all that. But I digress.

Back to talking 'bout a B3 app!

 

[SemiDriven]

I use a 5 string with the band I gigged with yesterday, 4 string in other bands.

I find I have good balanced output across all strings. There isn't massive subsonic freqs which could level a small building, but I don't want that anyway as it makes it harder for the engineer.

The K12 has a deep switch - I tried it out when I first got it and it's too much IMO. I run a Boss GEQ-7 last thing before the K12 and have a little 120hz boosted. That is plenty for me.

Good to know. Knowing it's an artificial enhanced bass "sweetener", I was wondering if there was a ton of benefit. In some situations perhaps, but it sounds like it may muddy things up a tad in live band settings.

 

[Rocksolid]

Good to know. Knowing it's an artificial enhanced bass "sweetener", I was wondering if there was a ton of benefit. In some situations perhaps, but it sounds like it may muddy things up a tad in live band settings.

Doesn't get super muddy - but the house was shaking! You know how it sounds with too much bottom end dialled in!

The other Powered monitor I used to use (and still do) is a Yamaha MSR400. No where near the power rating of the QSC - but gets plenty loud. It has a big front port and carries the low end well. Probably not the best bang for buck anymore with the new tech coming out all the time. But if you found one cheap 2nd hand you'd be happy!

 

[SemiDriven]

After reading the entire thread on “Zoom B3 as Preamp”, I’ve landed on two options for adding more “oomph” to my current meager setup:

1. Full-range powered speaker such as the QSC K12 or EV ZLX-12P. The ZLX is appealing as being very capable at a reasonable price.

2. Full range bass-oriented cab along with a power amp. Kudos to Steve (Thunderchild 112) and to Charlie (fEARless F112) for steering me to some of the newer full-range bass cabs. The MAS-46 could also be a contender.

Going with the second option would be 4-6 times the investment of the first option seeing that I would also need to add a power amp into the mix.

So:

Option one would involve less cash, immediate gratification, as well as immediate wife approval (she’s OK’d this).

Option two would involve more cash, delayed gratification, more delayed gratification, and a certain look on my wife’s face.

Guess the next step is to try out an EV ZLX-12P. And try to gauge how durable they are (cabinets can get tossed around a bit — hate to accidentally unseat some electronics inside!)

If however I decide to go with option two, what are some power amps / micro heads that would work well with the B3 in conjunction with the cabs mentioned above? Budget friendly would be an added plus! Don’t need a ton of power — just something that could adequately power those cabs.

 

[Rocksolid]

I picked up a QSC PLX1804 to use with my Berg NV412 and Eden 210xst(2) rigs. The Berg is tweeterless and not great with the B3 but the Eden cabs are full range, big bottom, ported with tweeters and very good being driven with a Power Amp and B3.

Other options are the standard offenders: Crown xls1500, Crest lite 2.0, Peavey IPR series etc.

The QSC is not bridgable - but runs 900w at 4ohms on each side, so I use one side, and essentially have a spare power amp (the other side) if needed.