Zoom B3 As Preamp

[CharlieC]

With his permission, I selectively added some of ticol07's fantastic graphs to my companion web page:

http://www.zinfanus.com/zoom_b3/cabinets

Thanks again, ticol07!

 

[ticol07]

You're welcome

Just a question for those who use some different kind of amp sims settings for live sessions : when you calibrate your sound in the place where you play, you re-eq every patch to raise the good sound or you adjust the global eq on your amp ?

I ask that because yesterday I played in the most boomy place I've ever been (a nice small gig place but with walls on the two sides of the stage, plus a very low ceiling). With all my settings and my zoom plugged in my bg250 it was like I was playing with only a sub.
I had to raise the cab a little bit to reduce these mega-booms (it helped a lot) and after that I had to take all my patches one by one to make some eq and cab sim quantity adjustments. Which was not very fun as I had to do that fast, and in the process I forgot to check one of the patches so I had a very bad sounding during the sound where I use this patch. (except that bad point the rest of our set was really cool sounding )

And in my case, I only use 6 or 7 patches. I guess some of you may use a lot more.

So, what's your technique to adjust all your patches without taking too much time during sound check ?

 

[CharlieC]

You're welcome

Just a question for those who use some different kind of amp sims settings for live sessions : when you calibrate your sound in the place where you play, you re-eq every patch to raise the good sound or you adjust the global eq on your amp ?

I ask that because yesterday I played in the most boomy place I've ever been (a nice small gig place but with walls on the two sides of the stage, plus a very low ceiling). With all my settings and my zoom plugged in my bg250 it was like I was playing with only a sub.
I had to raise the cab a little bit to reduce these mega-booms (it helped a lot) and after that I had to take all my patches one by one to make some eq and cab sim quantity adjustments. Which was not very fun as I had to do that fast, and in the process I forgot to check one of the patches so I had a very bad sounding during the sound where I use this patch. (except that bad point the rest of our set was really cool sounding )

And in my case, I only use 6 or 7 patches. I guess some of you may use a lot more.

So, what's your technique to adjust all your patches without taking too much time during sound check ?

Sorry to say, I know of no easy way around this for my particular setup.

However, seeing that you use a TC Electronic BG250 amp, I may a have a suggestion:

To my knowledge, the BG250 does not have EFFECT RETURN nor POWER AMP IN jacks, therefore I will assume you input via the main instrument jack and set a neutral EQ on the amp. With this said, the EQ section on the BG250 perhaps can be used as a single-point, global EQ for all B3 patches. Example, you perhaps could cut BASS on simply the BG250 to compensate for a boomy room and leave all patch EQs as they currently are.

Cheers!

 

[Jools4001]

I run my B3 into an ART ProChannel then into my poweramp. The idea is that the B3 gets me into the right tonal ballpark for each song in the set, so I've paid attention to making sure each patch tone and volume is right in the rehearsal room with the ART EQ set flat.

Then, the ART has a really flexible four band EQ, with parametric low and high mids, that is more than a match for any room that I've had to deal with, so i just tweak this as global EQ so that the sound in the venue is roughly the same as our rehearsal space and the job is done. The ART also takes care of gain matching and driving my poweramp.

PS: I've only had one gig where this didn't work really well, this was our last gig on Friday where we only had 10 minutes set up time to figure out how to cope with a big echoey sports hall...I tried and failed, suffering a miserable tone thereafter, but I'm sure that this was just a deficiency of time rather than equipment

 

[Rocksolid]

If you are running a Pre amp or a or a conventional amp and cab set up after the B3 it really is easiest to use these to globally tune your rig for the acoustics of the room.

However, not everyone is doing that. Whether I am using my B3 or my VT Bass deluxe, I usually run a Boss GEB-7 pedal equalizer after the 1/4 out of the B3 or VTBD which allows my to globally dial in my tone/ acoustics on stage. The xlr goes to the desk, and he can Eq the FOH.

As long as you have set up your patches to sound good in a fairly normal room, a little global eqing should be enough.

Just my $0.02 worth...

 

[gard0300]

CharlieC , back earlier in the thread you posted a barrel extension cable for your power supply. I can't seem to find the info. Do you still have it?

 

[Rocksolid]

CharlieC , back earlier in the thread you posted a barrel extension cable for your power supply. I can't seem to find the info. Do you still have it?

I got something like this or similar.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-2-1-5-5m..._Surveillance_Accessories&hash=item230cf50c29

Is that what you were referring to?

 

[CharlieC]

CharlieC , back earlier in the thread you posted a barrel extension cable for your power supply. I can't seem to find the info. Do you still have it?

Here is the link to that post:

Less On The Floor

 

[gard0300]

Thanks CharlieC your a saint!

 

[CharlieC]

Thanks CharlieC your a saint!

Thanks, I'm working on that

The similar cable pointed-out by Rocksolid on Ebay is also worth a look

Cheers!

 

[JPrinos]

Hi all,

I've been following this thread from nearly the very beginning and I have learned a tonne! Kudos to Charlie C!!

Has anyone had success getting what they deem good tone out of a Yorkville B200 (see picture below) when using the B3 as a preamp or as an effects box? I'm just starting to play around with it and I'm wondering if anyone else has found a setting they like.

 

[fourstringbliss]

Hi all,

I've been following this thread from nearly the very beginning and I have learned a tonne! Kudos to Charlie C!!

Has anyone had success getting what they deem good tone out of a Yorkville B200 (see picture below) when using the B3 as a preamp or as an effects box? I'm just starting to play around with it and I'm wondering if anyone else has found a setting they like.

You might start by setting your amp EQ flat, and make B3 patches of an amp model as is with maybe an EQ model and ZNR. I would start by monkeying around with the cab sim level and see if you find something you like.

It's possible that amp has a built in mid scoop or something like that and you'll need to compensate for it with the amp EQ.

 

[CharlieC]

Hi all,

I've been following this thread from nearly the very beginning and I have learned a tonne! Kudos to Charlie C!!

Has anyone had success getting what they deem good tone out of a Yorkville B200 (see picture below) when using the B3 as a preamp or as an effects box? I'm just starting to play around with it and I'm wondering if anyone else has found a setting they like.

Thanks for the kudos!

For starters, I see that your amp has an EFFECT RETURN jack and that is exactly how I would connect the B3 to it, and from there the rest is up to you

Cheers!

 

[CharlieC]

I found it interesting today that Joey Vera (Armored Saint + Fates Warning) is using a B3 to track in the studio along with some other well-known gear:

 

[ticol07]

Sorry to say, I know of no easy way around this for my particular setup.

However, seeing that you use a TC Electronic BG250 amp, I may a have a suggestion:

To my knowledge, the BG250 does not have EFFECT RETURN nor POWER AMP IN jacks, therefore I will assume you input via the main instrument jack and set a neutral EQ on the amp. With this said, the EQ section on the BG250 perhaps can be used as a single-point, global EQ for all B3 patches. Example, you perhaps could cut BASS on simply the BG250 to compensate for a boomy room and leave all patch EQs as they currently are.

Cheers!

I run my B3 into an ART ProChannel then into my poweramp. The idea is that the B3 gets me into the right tonal ballpark for each song in the set, so I've paid attention to making sure each patch tone and volume is right in the rehearsal room with the ART EQ set flat.

Then, the ART has a really flexible four band EQ, with parametric low and high mids, that is more than a match for any room that I've had to deal with, so i just tweak this as global EQ so that the sound in the venue is roughly the same as our rehearsal space and the job is done. The ART also takes care of gain matching and driving my poweramp.

PS: I've only had one gig where this didn't work really well, this was our last gig on Friday where we only had 10 minutes set up time to figure out how to cope with a big echoey sports hall...I tried and failed, suffering a miserable tone thereafter, but I'm sure that this was just a deficiency of time rather than equipment

If you are running a Pre amp or a or a conventional amp and cab set up after the B3 it really is easiest to use these to globally tune your rig for the acoustics of the room.

However, not everyone is doing that. Whether I am using my B3 or my VT Bass deluxe, I usually run a Boss GEB-7 pedal equalizer after the 1/4 out of the B3 or VTBD which allows my to globally dial in my tone/ acoustics on stage. The xlr goes to the desk, and he can Eq the FOH.

As long as you have set up your patches to sound good in a fairly normal room, a little global eqing should be enough.

Just my $0.02 worth...

Thanks for the replies, guys !

Yes, indeed, the bg250 has only one input (before the preamp - which is very transparent) so I should use its eq.
It was just a little bit counter intuitive to me as I already use the B3 as preamp, so with eq settings.
As for the GEB-7, I was afraid to use too much eq.
Before the B3 I was using a VT Bass (not the Deluxe version) with a drive in front of it, so I was sticked to two settings for a whole show and just had to do a simple eq adjustement due to the room on the 2 stompboxes.

Today my patches are coherent on the B3, I mean, as Jools4001 says, that I set them to have the good output volumes and the good tonal differences when played in the same room.

And, as I understand the problem I encountered, it may be mostly due because of a to high pourcentage of cab sims in my patches.
It seems like the cab sims can work well on a not too much coloured amp as the BG250 in many cases but not all.
So I will rebuild my patches without any cab sims and use my amp eq to fit the rooms (and bring an eq pedal in my gigbag, just in case ).
My goal with the B3 and the BG250 is to travel light and have amost nothing to plug before playing (I like to say to the others : "Hey guys, I'm ready. I'm waiting for you ").
No kidding, I'd like to be able to use the B3 by itself, without other pedals, or I know myself, I will add other stomboxes and I will finish with a big pedal board, using the B3 just as a tuner.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Yes, indeed, the bg250 has only one input (before the preamp - which is very transparent) so I should use its eq.

...It seems like the cab sims can work well on a not too much coloured amp as the BG250 in many cases but not all.

I would add that while the BG250 isn't super-coloured, it's far from flat.

I would be a good idea to play full-range music through it, and try and match the output to a good Hi-Fi playing the same material, so that you know how much pre-eq is needed in order to more or less flatten it out.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I would add that while the BG250 isn't super-coloured, it's far from flat.

I would be a good idea to play full-range music through it, and try and match the output to a good Hi-Fi playing the same material, so that you know how much pre-eq is needed in order to more or less flatten it out.

Yeah, the idea is to get the amp set as flat sounding as possible and then run the B3 through it. I'm lucky in that I'm playing through a Carvin BX500 combo which is pretty darn close to flat as is.

 

[ticol07]

Yes, it could be a good way, but you have to be sure that you're Hi-Fi system is flat. And I guess it's not always the case, no ?
If you do this kind of testing I'm interested.

I think I can live without the cab sims for gigs It was just a cool tone shaper available easily.

 

[CharlieC]

Yes, it could be a good way, but you have to be sure that you're Hi-Fi system is flat. And I guess it's not always the case, no ?
If you do this kind of testing I'm interested.

I think I can live without the cab sims for gigs It was just a cool tone shaper available easily.

Idea: Use your frequency graphing skills/tools to determine what settings are flattest on the BG250 preamp section and continue to happily use the cabinet sims on the B3!

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...Has anyone had success getting what they deem good tone out of a Yorkville B200 (see picture below) when using the B3 as a preamp or as an effects box?

I've played through a ton of those things- they seem to be very popular as bass monitors at churches in my area.

They've got a VERY coloured sound, with fairly unusual EQ centers.

If you do need to plug into the front end of the amp for any reason, it would be a good idea to start by playing full-range music through the BM200 while you tweak the amp's tone controls to get it sounding as flat and hi-fi as possible.

Otherwise, I would very strongly recommend that you plug the B3 into the Effects Return jack on that amp, to avoid the trademark BM200 scoop and upper mid squawk.

Once you have that out of the way, then you can start adjusting your patches to accommodate the sound of the single 15. You might want to try dialing the cab sims back a bit, since you're already getting a fair amount of "cab sim" from the cab itself. In particular, there's a pretty big low-mid bump with that cab.