Zoom Owners' Club!

[andruca]

So, time for an A/B/C/D sound test.

Here's an audio clip I've made using the 4 "bass capable" Zoom multiFX I own: MS-50G (bass FX added thru' Zoom Effect Manager) , MS-60B, G1Xon (custom firmware with bass added FX made via Zoom Firmware Editor) and B3. There's a "clean" patch (even tho' my clean is a little crunchy already) and there's a dirty patch. They both consist of the BassDrive (SansAmp emulation), the 160Comp (DBX emulation) and the ZNR (noise reduction), in such order, the variable part between both patches is the gain and EQ on the SansAmp instance. So both 3 slot patches are copied to all 4 devices. The master level on both the B3 and G1Xon are set to 100 (sounds like it matches the MultiStomps' output -no global output control on these-).

The piece is a very known (amongst bass players) fragment from a Rush song and there's 4 riff "laps" for both clean and dirt, each lap played with one of the devices, used in the same order for the 4 cleans and the 4 dirts. All this said... NOT THAT YOU CAN TELL... AT ALL (even despite my sloppy/inconsistent playing). Still, here's the audio in WAV or MP3.

For some suspense and audiophile speculation I'll wait until tomorrow, then will post a video to solve this puzzle, I promise. Again, not that I need to, or that it matters (much less surprises me, have known this for long), THEY DO SOUND EXACTLY THE SAME, no loss in response/range/whatever.

 

[bassbrad]

@andruca of course they sound identical you are comparing the identical digital models to each other running on different hardware all using the same ZFX x chip. What I was attempting to communicate was that the guitar versions are at a lower resolution than the bass, for example if you compare the bassman versions or chorus versions there will be a slight noticeable difference in bandwidth response in the extreme lows and highs, not necessary for guitar but crucial for bass.
Let me ask this : Did your hack of the MS50G or MS70CDR actually give you access to more effects before overload?
5 or 6 or 7 bass quality effects?

 

[andruca]

@andruca of course they sound identical you are comparing the identical digital models to each other running on different hardware all using the same ZFX x chip. What I was attempting to communicate was that the guitar versions are at a lower resolution than the bass, for example if you compare the bassman versions or chorus versions there will be a slight noticeable difference in bandwidth response in the extreme lows and highs, not necessary for guitar but crucial for bass.
Let me ask this : Did your hack of the MS50G or MS70CDR actually give you access to more effects before overload?
5 or 6 or 7 bass quality effects?

Oh, I see what you mean. My MS-50G came with firmware 3.10, 100 effects (the box says you can add some more from 72 extra effects available thru' the librarian software). I didn't simply add bass FX to that (what I usually do when creating a new "hybrid" firmware installer, but I used the (also unofficial) Zoom Effect Manager to make a selection on a group basis. I made sure to put in almost everything dynamics, EQ/filter, preamp/amp modeling, drive/distortion for both guitar and bass then add the rest. All in all 154 effects:

DYNAMICS (13)

• 160 Comp

• Comp

• D Comp

• DualComp

• GrayComp

• Limiter

• M Comp

• NoiseGate

• OptComp

• OrangeLim

• RackComp

• SlowATTCK

• ZNR

FILTER (19)

• A-Filter

• AutoWah

• Ba Cry

• Ba GEQ

• Ba PEQ

• BaAutoWah

• Bottom B

• Cry

• Exciter

• fCycle

• GraphicEQ

• M-Filter

• ParaEQ

• LineSel

• M/Filter

• RndmFLTR

• Splitter

• Step

• Z Tron

DRIVE (24)

• Aco.Sim

• BG GRID

• BG THROTTLE

• Booster

• CentaGold

• Dist 1

• Dist+

• DYNAMIC DRIVE

• Governor

• GreatMuff

• HotBox

• MetalWRLD

• OverDrive

• RC Boost

• RED CRUNCH

• Squeak

• Sweet Drive

• T Scream

• TS Drive

• Z Clean

• Z Dream

• Z MP1

• Z Neos

• Z Scream

AMP SIM (22)

• ALIEN

• B-BREAKER

• BG CRUNCH

• BG DRIVE

• BGN DRIVE

• CAR DRIVE

• DELUXE-R

• DZ DRIVE

• FD COMBO

• FD VIBRO

• HW STACK

• MATCH 30

• MS 1959

• MS CRUNCH

• MS DRIVE

• REVO-1

• TANGERINE

• TONE CITY

• TW ROCK

• US BLUES

• VX COMBO

• VX JMI

BASS DRIVE (14)

• Ba Boost

• Bass OD

• Bass Muff

• TS+DRY

• Ba Dist 1

• Ba Squeak

• BaFzSmile

• Ba Metal

• BassDrive

• DI Plus

• Bass BB

• DI5

• Bass Pre

• AC Bs Pre

BASS AMP SIM (12)

• acoustic

• Ag Amp

• B-Man

• Flip Top

• G-Krueger

• Heaven

• HRT3500

• Mark B

• Monotone

• SMR

• SuperB

• SVT

MODULATION (25)

• ANA234Cho

• Ba Chorus

• Ba Detune

• Ba Ensmbl

• Ba Octave

• Ba Pitch

• BaFlanger

• CE-Cho5

• CloneCho

• CoronaTri

• Detune

• DuoPhase

• DynaFLNGR

• Ensemble

• Flanger

• HPS

• MonoPitch

• Octave

• Phaser

• PitchSHFT

• RingMod

• Slicer

• StereoCho

• Tremolo

• Vibrato

SFX (12)

• 4VoiceSyn

• AutoPan

• Ba Synth

• BitCrush

• Defret

• MonoSynth

• Rt Closet

• StdSyn

• SynTlk

• V-Syn

• Z-Organ

• Z-Syn

DELAY (6)

• A-Pan DLY

• AnalogDly

• Delay

• DualDigiD

• LO-FI Dly

• SlapBackD

REVERB (7)

• Air

• Arena

• Cave

• Chamber

• DualRev

• GateRev

• Hall

Even tho' both the MS-60B and MS-70CDR come with almost no space left the MS-50G comes just 2/3 full. So my G ended up with a really competent set of bass FX (WAY more than I usually need).

Regarding processing I've already used 5 bass FX+ZNR no problem in the MS-50G, a chain going Ba Squeak > BassDrive > Bass PEQ > Bass PEQ > 160Comp > ZNR. That's my B3K'ish tone, I'd save an instance of ParaEQ if I'm using the G1Xon (5 slots), plus the ZNR if I'm using the 4 slot MS-60B (plus the other PEQ if I'm using the 3 slot B3, rare, it's my dedicated bass audio interface at home). Apparently delays and reverbs are the most demanding, as per what I read, I ignore any science behind DSP so I'm not sure about the real criteria, just know the above chain is working in my MS-50G.

What I'm left wondering is why did Zoom never allow for more FX in the MS-60B? I mean, the device lets you know when It won't load a certain model because of compromised performance, why not still let me play with the endless combinations available that won't eat all the DSP even with 6 slots used? Why even limit it at all? Why not let us chain anything we want up to the DSP's limit? Wouldn't mind being able to stack things like easy on the CPU para-EQs for a more advanced sound treatment. Yes, I know, fanboy dreams, still a 100$ pedal when it came out. Would've been unbeatable with such tweak.

BTW, I've been to the B1Xfour a couple years ago and (speaking of limited spectrum) I ended up keeping the MS-60B (destroys the boxy/noisy four tonewise IME) and eventually getting to where I am with many more previous gen gadgets (also own a G3, sadly can't customize FX in it, nor in the B3, I'd already have a 6 slot B3 by now). Do you have experience with the newer B3n/B1four/Xfour stuff and/or had a chance to A/B them? Unfortunately I didn't record any A/B back then and my B1Xfour is long gone by now, but I'm hopefully getting a friend's B1four to do so soon (I'd set up patches that sound as close as I can get them to, sadly same parameters don't sound anywhere close from one generation to the other).

 

[bassbrad]

I have the Zoom GCE-3 interface that gives access to all the current gen Zoom sounds, while the quality is improved there are so many fun effects missing that it keeps me from buying any of the current effects boxes. All the basics are there as well as popular amp models which sound very good, the guitar stuff especially ~ but again the drives just do not sound organic and the really fun reverbs and delays are all missing. Still a pretty great value for practice and recording and it may be available with a rebate, when I got mine it was a special price.

 

[bigthemat]

is my zoom b3 dying??????

I've noticed a couple weird things happening as of late.

First, settings will just change on a whim. MY tuner that I never touch changed from A440 to like A435, and on one of my patches, it just changed all the settings and now it sounds like crap... and I can't change em back. The knobs are either unresponsive, or they don't move in the correct way (I was turning one clockwise and it decreased the level instead....)

So, is it dying? I'm sad if it's going but not the end of the world...

 

[pbass74]

is my zoom b3 dying??????

I've noticed a couple weird things happening as of late.

First, settings will just change on a whim. MY tuner that I never touch changed from A440 to like A435, and on one of my patches, it just changed all the settings and now it sounds like crap... and I can't change em back. The knobs are either unresponsive, or they don't move in the correct way (I was turning one clockwise and it decreased the level instead....)

So, is it dying? I'm sad if it's going but not the end of the world...

Hope it's not dying. Have you tried a different power supply? It'll run off of batteries or USB power as well as the adapter.

 

[bigthemat]

Hope it's not dying. Have you tried a different power supply? It'll run off of batteries or USB power as well as the adapter.

yeah that was my first thought. It's been fine before using my pedalboard power brick thing (it has a higher output that seems to be fine, switched it to a one spot and now only the knobs decrease levels. I'll see if I can find the original power supply, but it's not looking good.

 

[bassbrad]

is my zoom b3 dying??????

I've noticed a couple weird things happening as of late.

First, settings will just change on a whim. MY tuner that I never touch changed from A440 to like A435, and on one of my patches, it just changed all the settings and now it sounds like crap... and I can't change em back. The knobs are either unresponsive, or they don't move in the correct way (I was turning one clockwise and it decreased the level instead....)

So, is it dying? I'm sad if it's going but not the end of the world...

I hope not, but that is certainly concerning. If you can try backing it up and updating the software.

B3 Support

I'm using mine with my Ibanez UB804 into an Alto TX310 as a small rig and have not had any issues.

 

[andruca]

Hey y'all! Just chiming in to let you know about an experience I've had a couple weeks ago with my B1X Four and the zoom-zt2 frontend app. AFAIK it's the only tool available to customize the effects in the B1 Four/X Four. My intention was to install some guitar amps/cab sims from the G1X Four into my B1X Four. At first I was failing miserably, frontend app said "Effect installed" but new FX didn't show up when browsing the pedal. Stubbornly spent about an hour trying, to no avail, until it occurred to me to install ToneLib Zoom and check for free memory in the B1X Four. And that was it, I was 99.3% full IIRC. So I deactivated many delays, reverbs, some bass amps/cabs I don't like (MarKBass, Aguilar and some others, I still don't use any amp/cab sim really) and I finally was able to put the Recti ORG, MS800, FD DLXR, UK 30A, XtasyBlue and DZ Drive amp emulations plus their accompanying cab sims.

So, the B1X Four seems to come from factory with the FX storage memory full (at just a "mere" 81 effects). IME with the previous gen (own MS-60B, MS-50G, G1Xon -also B3 and G3, but those can't be customized with different FX-) they all come with a lot of spare memory from factory. They usually came with ~100 FX and you could get up to 140+ in them. Only some official firmware updates from Zoom did fill in the whole memory (i.e. the first MS-60B update in 2017 IIRC).

So, that might be the "workaround" if you happen to be customizing a Four/n model with zoom-zt2, check for memory usage often with ToneLib. I've already commented about this in zoom-zt2's issues section at GitHub, just in case there's any future version, a memory usage indicator in the same frontend app would be nice.

 

[jimfist]

Hey y'all! Just chiming in to let you know about an experience I've had a couple weeks ago with my B1X Four and the zoom-zt2 frontend app.

That's great work! Would love to see someone crack this for the G6/G11 -->B6. May not be possible, but I'd love access to some of the guitar drives and pedal effects.

 

[jwilson67]

Just in case anyone is wondering, I found out the B3 is waterproof 3 weekends ago. After many years of ownership I kicked an entire glass of ice water on it. It actually pooled on the screen area. It still works flawlessly with no damage to anything. LOL

 

[andruca]

That's great work! Would love to see someone crack this for the G6/G11 -->B6. May not be possible, but I'd love access to some of the guitar drives and pedal effects.

Would be nice if Zoom stopped selling guitar/bass/acoustic specific models and instead sold a common device, with a certain FX bundle preinstalled, as many other manufacturers do, and then sold complementary bundles (guitar/bass/acoustic) separately. Doesn't seem to be the path they're going at all. Indeed they'd do obscure stuff such as including a 2-band para-EQ in the A1four model while the one in the G1four and B1four is single band. What's the point? (needless to say my B1Xfour is rid of the stock single band para-EQ and has now the A1's ParaEQx2)

 

[Artie Langston]

Here is my Zoom B6 effects unit , Line 6 G10 wireless, and ART Tube MP mounted on the Temple Audio pedalboard. The Airturn Bluetooth turns pages on my tablet.

This is an ideal setup when I need upright and bass guitar both, or fretless and fretted basses. Perfect for going directly into a PA or control board.

The Tube MP has phantom power, so I can blend a mic and a pickup on the upright in the B6 through the effects loop.

 

[mexicanyella]

Would be nice if Zoom stopped selling guitar/bass/acoustic specific models and instead sold a common device, with a certain FX bundle preinstalled, as many other manufacturers do, and then sold complementary bundles (guitar/bass/acoustic) separately. Doesn't seem to be the path they're going at all. Indeed they'd do obscure stuff such as including a 2-band para-EQ in the A1four model while the one in the G1four and B1four is single band. What's the point? (needless to say my B1Xfour is rid of the stock single band para-EQ and has now the A1's ParaEQx2)

!!!

I did not know this! A two-band parametric would be a very useful augmentation to my G1Xfour...

 

[SteveCS]

Would be nice if Zoom stopped selling guitar/bass/acoustic specific models and instead sold a common device, with a certain FX bundle preinstalled, as many other manufacturers do
...
Indeed they'd do obscure stuff such as including a 2-band para-EQ in the A1four model while the one in the G1four and B1four is single band. What's the point?
...

Agree, but ...

A two-band parametric would be a very useful augmentation to my G1Xfour...

... I know it will eat an additional effect slot which is irritating - you can include 2 or more of the same effect in a patch, so if you need 2-band parametric you can simply put two 1-band parametrics in a line. The beauty of this approach is that you might want to include ofther things between the two bands, or have the ability to toggle one band on/off independently of the other, say for a solo or different sections of a tune...

 

[andruca]

Agree, but ...



... I know it will eat an additional effect slot which is irritating - you can include 2 or more of the same effect in a patch, so if you need 2-band parametric you can simply put two 1-band parametrics in a line. The beauty of this approach is that you might want to include ofther things between the two bands, or have the ability to toggle one band on/off independently of the other, say for a solo or different sections of a tune...

IME it results in a handicap in real life. The B1Xfour's preamp/drive sims sound naturally boxier than, say, its predecessor, the B1Xon or in my case a G1Xon with added bass FX (or MS-60B, MS-50G or B3, they all sound exactly the same if you use the same effects). I've extensively dealt with this issue and, to make them sound the same (I A/Bed them until you can't tell a difference when switching from one to the other) it takes intense EQing in the four, both for fattening the lowest part of the low end and for taming the "boxy zone" (around 200hz). Fortunately I was told (think it was here in TB) about the A1four's 2 band para-EQ.

Don't have the patch comparison between models with me, but I can post it when I'm home. Thing is my usual "pre-baked" bass tone chain consists of PREAMP (either SansAmp or Darkglass emulation -RAT sim + SansAmp for units without Darkglass emulation)-->COMPRESSION-->ZNR, and thus I have room for "circumstantial" added FX in the G1Xon's patches (2 slots indeed). If I need to add 2 slots of para-EQ correction to each of my base patches in the B1Xfour I'm left with no free slots for any such occasional effect. Now at least I keep 1 free slot with the ParaEQx2.

 

[SteveCS]

IME it results in a handicap in real life. The B1Xfour's preamp/drive sims sound naturally boxier than, say, its predecessor, the B1Xon or in my case a G1Xon with added bass FX (or MS-60B, MS-50G or B3, they all sound exactly the same if you use the same effects). I've extensively dealt with this issue and, to make them sound the same (I A/Bed them until you can't tell a difference when switching from one to the other) it takes intense EQing in the four, both for fattening the lowest part of the low end and for taming the "boxy zone" (around 200hz). Fortunately I was told (think it was here in TB) about the A1four's 2 band para-EQ.

Don't have the patch comparison between models with me, but I can post it when I'm home. Thing is my usual "pre-baked" bass tone chain consists of PREAMP (either SansAmp or Darkglass emulation -RAT sim + SansAmp for units without Darkglass emulation)-->COMPRESSION-->ZNR, and thus I have room for "circumstantial" added FX in the G1Xon's patches (2 slots indeed). If I need to add 2 slots of para-EQ correction to each of my base patches in the B1Xfour I'm left with no free slots for any such occasional effect. Now at least I keep 1 free slot with the ParaEQx2.

Is it not the case that the 2-band parametric occupies two slots anyway - you can only have three 'large' units in a patch? I know with my B3n that the large models like amps with 8 parameters occupy two slots.

 

[andruca]

I've played on "stages" where people couldn't use the restroom unless I lifted up the neck of my bass so they could get in/out.

Is it not the case that the 2-band parametric occupies two slots anyway - you can only have three 'large' units in a patch? I know with my B3n that the large models like amps with 8 parameters occupy two slots.

I know what you mean, but AFAIK all effects in my B1Xfour and the ones I added are all 1 slot. The ParaEQx2 certainly is, and so are the preamps (BassDRV and DarkPre) and the 160 Comp and ZNR I use in my chain. The B1Xfour has 5 slots so it'd be able to run 2x2 slot FX plus a single slot one. Haven't run into any 2 slot fx tho', even wonder if they can be installed in the fours (or I might have some and I ignore it because I haven't used any).

 

[mexicanyella]

I am new to my G1Xfour but the effects and amp models I have tried in it all appear to be single slot, in terms of how they work on the LCD display. No idea—yet—on what their memory footprint is though.

A few of the amp models occupy three “pages” of parameters when you are in edit mode (the ‘59 Bassman and the Marshall Super Lead, two of my faves, come to mind). But they show up as one of the five available slots when selected.

I don’t use much in the way of effects with bass, aside from compression, EQ and ZNR if needed. Putting two 1-band parametrics in line—duh! Why did that not occur to me? Thank you for the suggestion. And being able to spread them to different stages in the chain does seem like it could be useful; possibly an upper mid boost before a gain stage and a lower mid cut after or something like that could
Be useful to me.

However running two 2-band parametrics in line, if they are indeed one memory slot...that’s starting to sound like a pretty powerful tone shaper.

Does the B1Four or A1four have a hi/lo shelving EQ option? Or a HPF/LPF function?

 

[SteveCS]

I know what you mean, but AFAIK all effects in my B1Xfour and the ones I added are all 1 slot.
...

I am new to my G1Xfour but the effects and amp models I have tried in it all appear to be single slot, in terms of how they work on the LCD display. No idea—yet—on what their memory footprint is though.
...

It they are one slot that is pretty cool. I was just looking at the bit in the 'A1-Four' manual which talks about the number of effects with more than one page of parameters being limited to 3:

There is no such caveat in the B1-Four manual, which is interesting because there are quite a few (most of the AMP effects and a handful of others) in the B1-Four have more than 4 parameters. I guess there are not many folks that would want to include more than 1 amp sim in any given patch, but even so.