Radial Highline vs. Radial JDI for Pedalboard XLR Out
- By micguy
- Effects [BG]
- 15 Replies
OK, folks. Let someone who's designed pro audio circuitry shed a bit of light on this subject, for folks that come across this thread in the future.
Passive DI boxes are transformers in boxes. Transformers isolate (break ground loops ) and they can also change levels and impedances. A JDI (fairly standard passive DI) has a 12: 1 step down transformer - given that impedances go with the square of the turns ratio, that means it steps the impedance down a factor of 144. That means you can plug a bass or guitar into it, and with a mic input as a load, the input of the Di look high enough impedance that you don't load it too much - typically it's a bit more heavily loaded than a 1 Meg amp input, but it's usually OK.
Now, let's say you have a pedal (or an amp sim), or literally any thing that buffers the signal. A buffer has a lower impedance on it's output than it does on it's input - that means, if your source for the DI is a pedalboard, with at least one pedal on at all times, you don't really need as much step down as there is in a typical DI. I have a couple pedalboards that have Di's that I built. Oddly, there are transformers made for this application - 4:1 step down transformers - Jensen makes them as wel as Hammond. A 4 to 1 step down (being less of a step down) gives you about 10 dB more level than as 12: 1 step down, with the tradeoff being that the impedance stepdown is only 16:1 . In a lot of cases, that extra level means less gain is needed on the mixing board. My pedalboards run a fair amount of gain - roughly 20dB signal gain from the instrument to the input of the DI - I do this with a very quiet gain stage early, to keep the hiss down from later pedals in the chain. With a 4:1 step down Di, taking away about 12 dB, the level to the mixing board is about 8 dB hotter than the instrument alone, and compared with a bit over 20dB loss on a typical DI, that's a 28 dB hotter level. Curiously, this works every where I've played, and FOH folks are happy with more level.
A Radial Highline uses a 1:! transformer - it's a DI for a slightly different case. If it's feeding a typical mic input (which nowadays run a couple of kOhms), so long as the output impedance of whatever pedal is feeding it is well below that, it'll work just fine. You may not want to run much gain in the pedals before it - in my case so long as I run 8 dB or less, I shouldn't have issues. I have a set of pedals where the one driving the Highline has 100 ohms output impedance (that should work well), and they are quiet enough that they don't need as much gain in the chain. That pedalboard is up and running circuit wise, sith very good results.
There isn't anything magical about an "isolator" vs a "DI" - they are not as different as you'd think (they're both transformers in boxes), and so long as you understand what the limitations are, and you have gear that fits within those limits, you can use one in place of the other, and sometimes get performance advantages from using the "wrong" one.
Passive DI boxes are transformers in boxes. Transformers isolate (break ground loops ) and they can also change levels and impedances. A JDI (fairly standard passive DI) has a 12: 1 step down transformer - given that impedances go with the square of the turns ratio, that means it steps the impedance down a factor of 144. That means you can plug a bass or guitar into it, and with a mic input as a load, the input of the Di look high enough impedance that you don't load it too much - typically it's a bit more heavily loaded than a 1 Meg amp input, but it's usually OK.
Now, let's say you have a pedal (or an amp sim), or literally any thing that buffers the signal. A buffer has a lower impedance on it's output than it does on it's input - that means, if your source for the DI is a pedalboard, with at least one pedal on at all times, you don't really need as much step down as there is in a typical DI. I have a couple pedalboards that have Di's that I built. Oddly, there are transformers made for this application - 4:1 step down transformers - Jensen makes them as wel as Hammond. A 4 to 1 step down (being less of a step down) gives you about 10 dB more level than as 12: 1 step down, with the tradeoff being that the impedance stepdown is only 16:1 . In a lot of cases, that extra level means less gain is needed on the mixing board. My pedalboards run a fair amount of gain - roughly 20dB signal gain from the instrument to the input of the DI - I do this with a very quiet gain stage early, to keep the hiss down from later pedals in the chain. With a 4:1 step down Di, taking away about 12 dB, the level to the mixing board is about 8 dB hotter than the instrument alone, and compared with a bit over 20dB loss on a typical DI, that's a 28 dB hotter level. Curiously, this works every where I've played, and FOH folks are happy with more level.
A Radial Highline uses a 1:! transformer - it's a DI for a slightly different case. If it's feeding a typical mic input (which nowadays run a couple of kOhms), so long as the output impedance of whatever pedal is feeding it is well below that, it'll work just fine. You may not want to run much gain in the pedals before it - in my case so long as I run 8 dB or less, I shouldn't have issues. I have a set of pedals where the one driving the Highline has 100 ohms output impedance (that should work well), and they are quiet enough that they don't need as much gain in the chain. That pedalboard is up and running circuit wise, sith very good results.
There isn't anything magical about an "isolator" vs a "DI" - they are not as different as you'd think (they're both transformers in boxes), and so long as you understand what the limitations are, and you have gear that fits within those limits, you can use one in place of the other, and sometimes get performance advantages from using the "wrong" one.