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Double Bass Adjustable / Removable Necks... A question of tone.

Nathan Levine

Nathan Levine

Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2008
980
328
Anchorage, AK
#1
I am curious if anyone using an adjustable or removable neck bass is willing to comment on the tonal qualities of their instrument? Is there any perceived loss of sound quality when using some mechanical system that takes the place of glue? How about luthiers who have made these basses? Perhaps you've played otherwise identical instruments side by side. Any observations you're willing to share?
 
#2
I played some Jean Auray basses last summer both with and without removable necks. While I couldn't compare identical models with and without the feature, the joint seemed very solid and well thought out. I can't imagine there is any tonal sacrifice, at least with his system.
 
#4
My first bass which used a removable/adjustable neck had no trouble projecting clearly to the back of Vancouver's Orpheum theatre, capacity 2700 or so. It seems to me that provided there is no muting component in the loop and the instrument itself has excellent tone, there is no reason a non-glued neck should cause problems with tone or volume. Mario's claim of improved tone might be a bit excessive. I've heard a couple of old basses he's modified and they were solid sounding but not spectacular. I've also converted 2 basses so far using something very close to his system, with perhaps small improvement but nothing I'd get too excited about. But generally speaking, if the job is done well the result should be at least as good as with a glued in neck and the savings in baggage fees and reduced damage from baggage handlers should be well worth the cost of conversion.
 
#6
Valis said:
I'm not a luthier, but as a double bass lover, I wonder how glue could sound better than no glue?
I wonder why everybody wonders about a loss of sound quality and not the opposite!

The only reason why I'd like a glued neck is solidity.
Click to expand...

Might have something to do with centuries of common experience, that a sloppily fitted, poorly glued neck joint on any instrument tends to harm the sound. From there it seems a rational jump to suggest that a completely non-glued neck joint would make worse sound still. But a well designed, well built removable neck joint should be making perfectly acceptable contact with the instrument such that there is no damping/muting effect because of a 'mushy' neck joint as with the poorly fitted ones. Traditions make it difficult for many to break out and try new things, especially with the weight of popular opinion standing there holding the money...
 
#7
I've thought about having my bass converted but have been advised against it. Only other option, if I decide to take that advice, is to buy an instrument with a removable neck. I just want to be 99% certain that any instrument I buy or have commissioned will not suffer in tonal quality.
 
#8
Commissions are difficult. From the luthier's perspective of course it's useful to have one's time paid for in part beforehand so as to take the money pressure off and allow focus on building the instrument, but if the instrument fails to satisfy the player that can make for quite a headache for both parties. Ideally it seems better if the player can just try a finished instrument and hear if it's right for their needs, as for many luthiers, guaranteeing a particular sound isn't something they can do consistently.
 
#12
Nathan Levine said:
I've thought about having my bass converted but have been advised against it. Only other option, if I decide to take that advice, is to buy an instrument with a removable neck. I just want to be 99% certain that any instrument I buy or have commissioned will not suffer in tonal quality.
Click to expand...

You know, Rufus Reid comissioned Mario Lamarre to convert his 1806 bass to a removable neck, and he couldn't be happier. In fact, I think that's the instrument shown on Lamarre's site at this page.

I don't think Reid would take the plunge unless he was confident there would be no compromises in sound, and his experience has borne that out.
 
#13
GerardSamija said:
Commissions are difficult. From the luthier's perspective of course it's useful to have one's time paid for in part beforehand so as to take the money pressure off and allow focus on building the instrument, but if the instrument fails to satisfy the player that can make for quite a headache for both parties. Ideally it seems better if the player can just try a finished instrument and hear if it's right for their needs, as for many luthiers, guaranteeing a particular sound isn't something they can do consistently.
Click to expand...
I have not found this to be true. When a luthier takes a small deposit to guarantee the seriousness of the buyer, this does little to take money pressure off, especially when that deposit is refundable. Most luthiers, myself included, will insist that when the instrument is finished, the player take it for a trial period to make sure there is a good match. As far as guaranteeing a particular sound, if the luthier is qualified and talented, he/she has a very good idea what that instrument will sound like from the start. Failure to satisfy a commission is pretty rare, as far as myself and my close colleagues goes.
 
#15
arnoldschnitzer said:
I have not found this to be true. When a luthier takes a small deposit to guarantee the seriousness of the buyer, this does little to take money pressure off, especially when that deposit is refundable. Most luthiers, myself included, will insist that when the instrument is finished, the player take it for a trial period to make sure there is a good match. As far as guaranteeing a particular sound, if the luthier is qualified and talented, he/she has a very good idea what that instrument will sound like from the start. Failure to satisfy a commission is pretty rare, as far as myself and my close colleagues goes.
Click to expand...

Arnold, if I may ask, what has been your experience with removable neck instruments? From reading here on TB i believe that some of the New Standard basses have been going out with removable necks in the past few years. What have you thought about them overall?
 
#16
When removable necks started becoming popular I poo-poo'd the idea, stating (publicly, I think) that a bolted neck joint has to be inferior to a well-fitted glued joint. But experience has won out over prejudice, and I have to say I cannot hear the difference. Gerard, thanks for the kind words.
 
#17
Jsn said:
You know, Rufus Reid comissioned Mario Lamarre to convert his 1806 bass to a removable neck, and he couldn't be happier. In fact, I think that's the instrument shown on Lamarre's site at this page.

I don't think Reid would take the plunge unless he was confident there would be no compromises in sound, and his experience has borne that out.
Click to expand...

The old pedigree bass he had acquired the last couple of times I went to hear him had busetto corners, so I don't think that is the one.
 
#18
Eric Hochberg said:
The old pedigree bass he had acquired the last couple of times I went to hear him had busetto corners, so I don't think that is the one.
Click to expand...

I just received this response regarding the LaMarre bass from Ken Smith:

"Eric, the bass in Mario's 'site is now MY bass. It is the Malvolti. A rare
valuable bass. Kolstein knew that bass I am sure, father and Son and when Barrie
saw the bolted neck. he was disappointed. When I spoke with Barrie after buying
the bass, he mentioned how it was ruined. The neck-scroll is in one piece and
possible original without a graft. A great neck and good wood but now, it is
fire wood. It is in restoration and the first order of business was to repair
the bass from the butchery done by Mario at the request of the former owner than
needed the bass to travel with for auditions. I guess Shen was sold out.. lol

This is the Malvolti pre-restoration; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/malvolti/

His master, Cristofori invented the Piano and both master and pupil served
Prince Medici. Malvolti taught Gabrielli they say and Gab. taught Carcassi.

Why would anyone in their right mind make this into a big fat Fender?.. Hey, on
the bright side, if it wasn't in need of this Neck fix, we might never have
opened the bass up. I had the Top removed to fix the Block 100% as well inside
from the 2 holes drilled and discovered that the rib cracks had extended past
their previous studded repairs and the half-edging inside was toast as well as
an overly stiff bassbar. So now it has all that fixed and should sound better
than ever. I played one concert on this bass when I first got it and in my mind,
I saw the Royal court of Florence of the 18th century watching me play what
probably was made for the Medici collection. The Coat of arms of Florence is
inlaid in the back. THIS is a master Mother Fxxxxxg bass. lol

You may publish this. I think Kolstein would be ok with it. He did nothing wrong
here and the old repairs, we have no idea who did them. They were standard for
the era in which they were done."
 
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#20
Got to say I'm somewhat confused by what you've posted Eric. Barrie Kolstein says the neck is ruined by Mario's conversion to removable/adjustable, have I got that right? Why not just graft a bit of wood here and there and restore the neck to glued-in, if your desire is to have a fixed neck? As much as some of Mario's decisions in this work leave me scratching my head a little (finishing nails though belly and back to hold Roberto Occipinti's soundpost upright through the years, cutting into the heel profile for his adjuster instead of using an inset allen bolt...) it seems a bit of an extreme leap in the other direction to declare the original neck as 'firewood.' Some of Barrie's old articles in Doublebassist magazine left me a bit confused too. But my point is, like, gosh, how much surgery do people think these antiques can take before there's not a lot of original material left? Conservative approaches are almost always better. Linen cleats instead of big wooden ones and rib doubling, for instance, offer vastly superior seasonal shrinkage protection and impact resistance while adding not nearly so much mass and preserving the proper acoustical behaviour of the wood. Was it really necessary to convert to a solid neck joint again? Was the removable neck causing a problem, acoustically?
 

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