Dr. DIMENTO’S V-BASS PICKUP EXPERIMENT

This is not a review, just the beginning of one.

Extending the boundaries of the pup forum a bit much I suppose but to me this is about tone and in effect the V-Bass for my purposes boils down to a variable pickup assembly - which is right up my alley. But I can see it being moved to effects or whatever - but effects I really don’t have any interest in to date personally.

Table of Contents

Week 01:

Introduction
Initial Impression Of The V bass/Pup package (nothing about tone yet)
Initial Patch Preset Impressions (alas, something about tone)
V-Bass As An Educational Tool
COSM Modeling Initial Impression
GK Pup & Acoustic Properties of the Individual Bass

Week 02: Navigating The V Bass Experience
The GK Onboard Control Unit & Associated Tones

Week 03: Synth Patches & Real World Basslines
Week 04: A Dive Into The Parameter Abyss

Page 2

Week 05: One Approach To Rewriting Junk Patches
Week 06: Impression of Junk-Free User Patches
Week 07: Sample Application of Junk-Free User Patches

Page 3

Week 08: Overview of User Patches As A Group
Week 09: The Hendrix Experience
Week 10: User Patch EQ’s Not Cutting It
Week 11: Presonus EQ3B Fix
Week 12: Some Progress Some Regress
Week 13: Entwistle Experience
Week 14: Use For The Useless Presets & More
Week 15: Increased Solo/Lead Play & More

Page 4

Week 16: Tweak Time vs. Play Time
Week 17: Swapping Out Mag Pups & More
Week 18: Play Time
Week 19: Digital Twilight Zone (USB Port)
Week 20: Paul Westwood Experience (Bass Bible)
Week 21: Few Good Patches Go A Long Way
Week 22: Feedback On Partially Reorganized Patches
Week 23: Spaced Activity
Week 24: 6 Month Assessment Of Initial Objectives
Week 25: Sabbatical

Intro

First would like to acknowledge David Wilson as the source of this gadget and one who has already helped me through my first lame stage with it. Maybe he’ll contribute some of his experience with it along the way. Course yall welcome tuh jump in too.

This is a horse of a different color and have no idea how it will unfold so I’ll follow the path and see where it goes then maybe put together something coherent and condensed as indicated. At any rate, I speculate a worthy “review” will be a while in the making and I’d like to have a progression of experiences to document exactly that. Otherwise I’ll forget a lot of it as the experience progresses - especially initial impressions which to me are of interest. I’m already getting to that point. Some of it will probably get edited as I remember some things, so any edit date may be of interest. Will try dating and placing future edits at the bottom of the page for quick locating. For now this is just the opening page.



What Is a Roland V Bass?

VERY loosely to simplify, the V bass unit is a programmable floorboard “preamp” that utilizes a small unique pickup/control assembly that is attachable to any bass, reads the strings like a magnetic pup, but plays the sounds programmed into the “preamp.” The original bass magnetic pups and electronics remain intact unchanged. The bass can be played through the original pups/electronics only, a mix of the original mag pups/electronics and Roland pup, or the Roland pup only. And in doing so, since the Roland pup reads the strings like a mag pup, it incorporates the unique tone of your bass and how it’s played into the programmed sound.

So What’s The Point?

Instead of changing pups, re-routing your bass, reworking electronics, having a half dozen basses with different routes/electronics, etc.; without permanent modification to or touching your bass (other than attaching the Roland assembly) at the touch of a button your bass can put out the tones of a Ric, Vintage Fender P, Music Man slap, Jaco Fretless, URB, Hofner, Piezo, orchestral instruments, guitar, synths, and much more. And it will play like the bass you’re accustomed to because it is your bass.

At least that’s it in theory.

And if that’s not appeal enough, among other things in addition to instrument modeling there is amp, cab, and effects modeling. All of which have adjustable parameters and can be mixed to preference to obtain a desired tone - so you can push a button (or step on a pedal) and play the mix you’ve created.

Link Removed


Why My Initial Interest

I’m a Tone Junkie

Versatility is a priority

I like programmable gear for quick preset tone change

Hoped to be able to cut down on bass inventory

Hoped to be able to cut pup inventory down to a minimum

Hoped for quality tone:
improvement over like a bass pod - I figured skipping a mag pup would get a purer signal and so produce the patch in unadulterated form. Being able to mix or isolate a traditional mag and unit pup was a plus though.

Wanted to avoid tracking issues.

Wanted to avoid having to become a synthhead - I figured the V-bass would be sort of a half-way house between a synth and pod.

Not a new gadget - I’m no test pilot, not into crash and burn. I want something with a track record.

Have thought for a while to pick up a Roland cube to check out the COSM modeling - and this has it.

Hoped to avoid having to set up a fretless bass

I liked the idea of the unit playing like bass and picking up acoustic properties of the bass and how it’s played.

Stable Market value
Used cost and resale are currently stable for quick turn around with minimal loss in the event it sucked - apparently some guys think these are on the high side yet there’s chomping at the bit for lots of new and used gear that equally and more expensive. The way I figured it, if it worked out as I’d hoped, I could buy 5 of these for the gear it’d replaced and maybe shrink the rig some in the process. Fact is, I fully expected to move it on when I bought it - if it were a silver bullet, we’d know it by now.


Why The Delay

What wasn‘t appealing was I’d like to have fretless tones that don’t track frets.

Ideally I’d have liked to be able to utilize any sample conceivable but since bass technology's not there yet, it wasn’t worth the trade off.

I’ve thought about one before and seems the delay was due to a combination of factors: other things of more interest I wanted to check out; expecting it to be similar to the pod; not being a synth; and the silver bullet thing.

But this last round I kept thinking about it and I don’t like recurring thoughts. It was time to get it out of my system - one way or another.

Initial Impression Of The V bass/Pup package (nothing about tone yet)

Synopsis

V Bass unit itself seems well designed enough for it’s application and the manuals aren't bad, so not much to say there at this point. 3 pups: Roland GK2-B and GK3-B, and Yamaha B1D. The 2-B pup has plenty of lead, is the largest and tallest (1 3/8&#8221 of the lot, requires the small phone type plug for the mag connection, and is the one I installed. The 3-B pup is the smallest and shortest (just under 1&#8221 of the lot, has the shortest lead, and uses a standard guitar plug from the mag pup. The Yamaha B1D is in the middle of the categories addressed and uses a small phone plug from the mag pup. Mounting the pup wasn’t a problem, pretty much any stooge can do it. The manuals are available online. I think you have to register with Roland first though.

Not my bag but I think they could configure a practical polished option to the onboard Terminator Grenade look by offering a stacked pot, switch, and 13 pin replacements for flush mount and standard jacks - either as total or partial replacement. Personally I’d like to see the onboard controls incorporated into the V pedal board (so the onboard control can be eliminated) or even in a standard outboard box.


Whole Enchilada

V-Bass Unit

Decent appearance wise. Pretty light and not excessively large at 3” x 12” x 19. Never used a pedal setup before so this should be interesting. Seems solidly built, clearly laid out and labeled, all connections you’d need plus. The pedals are hard plastic but would probably take anything short of abuse/atypical occurrence. Why they didn’t just make it square instead of tapered, which makes the volume pedal hangs over the side, I’m not sure.


Pup Assembly

3 pups: GK2-B, GK3-B, and Yamaha B1D. Goldielocks scenario. All plastic (feel like cheap little plastic toys), pretty cheesie and unlikely to take any kind of hit without being totaled. Acknowledged in the manuals in terms of take “care while handling.” So one that’s “just right” was out off the bat. Will add however that both the 2-B and B1D had obviously been used previously. The B1D case appeared pretty new regardless. The 2-B had obvious wear to the case but is intact and without damage. So either they’re surprisingly tough or previous users paid attention to the manual - and were a bit lucky to boot. Not something I would bank on as road worthy.

B1D
Overall, the Yammie struck me as having the most going for it. About 11” of lead from pup to control, 1 1/8” tall, had a neat simple little detachable bracket you could extend from the pup to mount other than to the face of the base if needed; probably the most ergonomic and esthetically appealing but gun metal gray so not the best of colors it would seem. Has the small phone plug into the control unit for a mag pup so you need a jumper with two different ends or an adapter for one end (which I’ve got but the case diameter is too large to fit into the groove it slides in). But I had GK’s so I decided to keep it consistent and simple and eliminate the Yam for the time being. Didn’t have the mounting kit but downloaded the manual it's just a flat plate in my recall.

The GK3-B

Only has about 8” of lead - too much is better than not enough. Wasn’t long enough to suit my needs so it was out of the running stat. Little smaller than the B1D volume wise and just under 1” tall. Sort of globular looking but black tone seems as good of choice as any. Takes a standard guitar plug so a jumper with same ends (and one you could swap for a patch cord in a crunch). The mounting hardware was included for this unit and I’m guessing is close if not the same as for the 2-B. A stout clamp for mount (or optional plate setup that mounts to the body side similar to an arch top pick guard). The clamp itself weighs about 8 ounces but feels heavier attached to the bass. Whole rig looked new never installed and was complete with all hardware.

GK2-B

About 15” of lead = + in my book and was selected for that reason, along with being the most worn. Largest of the lot by a bit volume wise and tallest at 1 3/8”. Also takes the small phone plug for the mag input. Probably the ugliest in form of the lot but also black so bit of a plus there. Assume but not sure if it takes the identical mount as the 3-B cause I didn’t intend to use the bracket anyway.

Onboard Mounting

Mounting wasn’t a problem and instructions are decent for the most part. Any stooge can rig a mount (I proved it), albeit quasi-permanent mostly just to check it out. Pup height wasn’t an issue but the GK gauge was made out of steel which seemed pretty lame. Aluminum or plastic would have made more sense given you’re measuring between a magnet and string. They also listed 1.5mm as 0.6” in the manual. Would take a serious pup to require a ½” plus spacing off a string and this wasn‘t one. If you’re not use to using millimeters before getting a V bass, you will be.

General thoughts on the pickup

Personally, I’d rather have the controls in an outboard unit or even rigged to run through the peddle board. I don’t see any point in mounting them to a bass unless you can‘t run that long of line from the pup (but it‘s running from the control). Even just a jack for the GK pup into the control like the mag would at least permit you to disconnect the GK control/clamp assembly from the pup for transport (and bass in original case unobstructed).

For that matter it looks like a special design stacked pot and single switch set-up could replace the control onboard more conventionally. Sell 13 pin flush mount and standard Fender fit jacks to fit the originals - for either total replacement or partial mod. The whole mess would become polished. They could market that stuff to boutique builders like Lightwave used to do. As it is, in general the control is ugly, awkward, gets in the way, requires alteration to the base and affords potential damage, probably get in the way of fitting the bass into a case or subject to damage in a gig bag.

Having only the pup on the bass would be a lean, clean machine.

5/31/06
V Bass Unit: For my purposes I'd rather ditch the pedals and half the size of the unit.

Pup Assembly: the GK pup and 13 pin cord is a lot like a mouse with the tail of a python. If you step on or hook the cord and jerk the bass, the mouse is not going to fair well.

Onboard Mounting: One thing you don't want to do if making your own mount (or otherwise) is have the control unit extending off the side of the bass so it takes the first hit from whatever. Also, if they were going to make the control out of plastic they should have made the mount so it could take the tension on the cord and protect the control yet permit access to the controls.

6/1/06
Turns out any control that is available through the onboard control can be done through the Vbass unit itself so there's no need onboard for anymore than the pup and 13 pin jack. But you'd either have to connect the pup to another 13 pin or crack the control to remove the existing 13 pin.

Initial Patch Preset Impressions (alas, something about tone)

Synopsis

Selecting presets is pretty straight forward. Best tones so far come from the GK pup alone. There are quality tones to be had from bass to brass recognizable from classic tunes of all styles. Classic bass tracks capture the essence of the tone well. Tracking is pretty good for most presets. Sensitivity to attack, technique, and hand position is no worse than some mag pups I’ve had but not nearly on par with a good mag (but there may be adjustments for that I haven’t gotten to yet). The bottom line is a lot of these tones are so cool that it compensates for whatever is lacking.


Whole Enchilada

Selecting Presets

Haven’t listened to all the patches - that I’m aware of. I know I haven’t heard any URB tones yet. If I have, they suck! Just been using their little omni dial which gives the name of the patch but doesn’t change the number. So I haven’t gone like from 1-100. It doesn’t seem to take them in sequence like that. Maybe it runs through all in one bank till you change banks or something. I know I’ve played some of the same ones more than once though. So it’s about time to peel the manual open and look it up.

Pup Selection

As suspected, patches to me sound a lot more appealing through the GK pup alone. Through a mag pup alone it struck me much like the Pod so haven’t messed with that much at all. Haven’t played through a mix of the two because of the required weird adapter mentioned in the previous post.

Presets Through The GK Pup Alone

Sounds through the GK pup are impressive. Quality stuff. Lots of classic tones in all forms. Bass, guitar, synth, horn, keyboard, etc. From orchestra to metal, tones for all styles and more - like sitcoms, jingles, radio skits, or plays. Some of the synth sounds took me right to tunes from the Beatles, Eagles, The Who, Pink Floyd, even Ozark Mountain Dare Devils, among others. Guitar tracks straight from Van Halen, Zep, and others. Similar experience with the bass tones. And these tones aren’t similar - they sound like the recordings. I hear players talk about the Aguilar GS112 cabs being scooped but apparently they’ve never played a stereo through them - and this is similar. To my ears they cover the frequency spectrum very well and accurately according to what‘s pumped into them.

Classic Bass Presets

Haven’t played the bass tracks to tunes much but they seem pretty accurate for what they’re supposed to be. In the least they cover the essence and distinctive nature of the tone if not the more subtle aspects. In a way it’s a lot like playing a bass recording. Also interesting is that they play pretty well to a broad range of tunes with absolutely no tone control adjustment (running the V bass unit straight into a QSC power amp). For now I want the purest sound I can get so nothing in between. I guess there’s a way to adjust tone on the V-bass but haven’t got there yet. At any rate, it’s not set-up like the pod with blatant tone controls.

Tracking

No major tracking issues for the most part. Some of the patches get quirky with machine gun picking (like intermitent skipping of the attack part of the tone) or in lower registers on the E string. It’s almost like lower frequencies require some kind of delay in the tone blend. A tone that will seem sweet and coherent on the D & G strings will sound broken up from about the 5th position down on the E string. That may be adjustable internally or something to have to live with that could be more of an issue than it seems right now. Only an issue on some patches - typically synth type stuff for the lower frequency thing.

Sensitivity

In terms of sensitivity to technique, attack, and hand position, there is noticeable response but it’s a fraction of what comes through a decent mag pup. I’ll admit though that I’ve played through mags that are no better - even worse probably. But I’d say it’s not a strong point of the V-bass. It is real good going from finger to pick, and there‘s a clear difference between a medium and thin pick (more so than with most mags in fact). In fact I’ve an early impression that the V bass will be more useful flat picked than finger. Probably least response to hand position, although it is noticeable. Again that may be something I can adjust in the future. Also to a lot of music, this aspect of playing is not of much consequence except in slower tunes and open spaces and in those situations it will be more audible with the V-bass as well. Also, with the V bass, aside from parameter adjustments, you have a myriad of patches that have a lot of those qualities incorporated into the patch so it’s not something you’d have to alter technique to get.

It’s not like the V-bass put’s out a fixed tone but it’s nothing like a good mag where you can skip a lot of control adjustment simply by altering how you play. To make the point, slap, hammer-ons, muting, etc. are all there. It's acually quite responsive to tapping, trills, and vibrato. In fact slides in particular throw such a sweet quality into tone that it’s hard to get enough of it. Arpeggios, chords, and double stops to many of the patches are to die for - real nice.

Overall Impression

The bottom line is a lot of these tones are so cool that it compensates for whatever is lacking. I would have been ecstatic to get some of these guitar tones way back when. Even tones you may have no application for are appealing and make you feel expressive in playing them. Talk about something that will get you playing. This is probably the best motivator to play I’ve run across since the Korg PX4B. Overall the tones are rich, full, pro quality. I’ve read the V-bass is a piece of junk compared to the guitar version - if so that must be one scream machine.

Addendum

Preset Selection

I did get around to checking out all the preset patches. The “omni” dial actually does change the preset numbers on the play screen. I was looking at the red “scoreboard” readout. I need glasses to see the changes on the play screen. I don’t like glasses. They are banked and not listed 1-100 though.

URB Presets

The URB tones are pretty decent. Not very convincing if you play them like Electric Bass but I’d be willing to bet an URB or, with a little work, slap player could at minimum make it realistic to music if not solo. I’ve been playing at lower volume so it’s hard to tell if the unit is picking up the strings well - since acoustically I’m getting it from the bass and hear it fine. Popping, slapping, aggressive play makes a major difference in the URB presets. Interestingly enough, a pick does on a few of them too - gives you that percussive attack to tone. I’ve noticed on several occasions for various presets that it takes a pick to get the attack to come out in their tone.

Classic Presets

The presets have the basic classic bass tones incorporated: Fender P & J, Ric, Hofner, T-Bird, and Ray (that come to mind). As mentioned previously, the presets at minimum capture the essence of the tone. I’d have liked to have seen a few more but for the time being I’ve given them credit for knowing what they were doing with their preset selections. So I’m guessing the presets can be modified to get you what’s not pre-packaged for you. I haven’t roamed into the COSM thing so don’t know what’s there yet either.

Ed

V-Bass As An Educational Tool


Synopsis

The V bass has a number of aspects that make it a good educational tool. Among them; a graphic read-out that can be used to demonstrate how even your playing is; exposing your ear to the core sound of a given effect, bass, amp, and cab models and their impact on tone. That’s not only useful for application purposes but helps facilitate communication with other players. The V bass can also be a good skill training tool - like playing fretless patches to fretted tunes where accurate timing and fretting is of consequence to minimize mwah.


Whole Enchilada

Another thing I noticed is the V bass has a number of aspects that make it a good educational tool.

The first thing was in setting the sensitivity for each string you get a graphic readout for every string you play so you can see how even your play is across the strings - once the strings are balanced that is. From what I can tell, it’s pretty sensitive and pretty darn accurate. I know far a fact is more accurate than my ear - which has been good enough to date. So you can watch the readout as you play and use that to improve your technique.

Another thing is it can facilitate associating sounds with instruments. For example I’ve heard plenty of pups and know the basic classic tones. Even so, hearing the essence of the sounds in the presets clarified it even more. There’s a myriad of variation on each tone in the real world so a vintage J tone for example becomes more of a spectrum of tones rather than a defined datum point. It’s useful to me to hear the core tone.

You can extend that concept to orchestral instruments or whatever where the boundaries blur. Extending it to Effects is definitely educational for me cause the only effects I’ve messed with myself were in the Korg PX4B and pod - and I didn’t mess with those much. I know basic effects like wet, dry, chorus, wah, etc but I haven’t a clue what the subtle variations are called, I just know what they sound like.

These are just a few of them I've noticed so far. I'm guessing there will be many more. But it's noteworthy becuase it's an added value in considering purchase.

One related caution you do have to watch for with the V-bass is something I noticed with mag pups and gear in general - when I know what something is (or is supposed to be), it affects what I think and therefore hear. Hearing is selective and when I know what I'm suppose to hear in advance, it robs me of what I would naturally be inclined to pickup. I'm much more likely to hear something or hear it disproportionately if I'm screening for it. According to an old Fender study, that's the rule not the exception. The power of suggestions is in deed pretty potent.

6/02/06
Been playing fretless patches with a fretted bass to fretted tunes lately and it works suprisingly well to most tunes and a broad variety of styles. Since the fretless patch attacks tend to be punchie yet mwah needs to be minimized in application to fretted tunes, it's a good tool for improving technique in terms of timing and clean fretting.

COSM Modeling Initial Impression

Synopsis

Pretty Impressive. I’m guessing most of my previous “complaints” can be resolved through adjustment in parameters. The preset tones can be seriously expanded upon. For example the EB MM could go from the slap tone preset to the more full HB tone, to fretless, to tuba like, to a bowed bass violin version or to a bowed violin - all extremely convincingly. All that and much more came from adjusting only 2 of the 7 parameters for the bass alone - then there’s amps and effects with their own parameters on top of that (and perhaps more that I’m not aware of yet). In terms of the end product, this unit is beginning to strike me as the Cad Cam or Virtual Reality Pickup. COSMOS modeling.

Whole Enchilada

With a minimum of tinkering on the EB (MM) patch I’m guessing I can throw a number of the previous criticisms in the can: like sensitivity to strings, and wanting more classic bass models (mostly I was referring to variations of the same instruments and adding a few like Alembic among others).

The EB preset was essentially the tone but I thought it was a slap tone version, which is cool but limited. Was time to dip into the waters of the COSM for exploration. The EB was the last one I played to tunes so stuck with it to see what I could do. In no time I got a great fretless tone for it. Haven’t done a side by side yet but it sounded pretty close to some of the Jaco tone Paul Westwood did on the Bass Bible CD’s. Then I got the typical thicker HB mode tone I’m most accustomed to from playing the real thing. Pretty much nailed it. Pulled up a bow version of it and it was really full, rich, and cool but probably more tuba sounding than bow to me at the time. But quality tone.

Got into the brass clip of it and that was really interesting. Sounded more like bow to me. The tone sounds sandwiched like with bowed bass violin on the bottom and a bowed violin on top (maybe viola in between). Bass and violin for sure though. I was doing hammer-on’s/off’s across the board and it sounded a lot like volume swells (squeals, pinch harmonics, several terms for it). That made me think about checking out harmonics. Using a thin pick at the 7th and 12th frets with light pressure brought out just the violin tone. You can do that with these patches - just bring out part of the tone by how you play. By trilling at moderate tempo it sounded just like bowing a violin. In fact I could even get it to do the kid learning to play type screech by barely touch the string. That’s how much it sounded like a violin - and it sounded indistinguishable from the real thing (although it would throw in some weird blips once in a while when I wasn’t consistent in application).

I was trying everything to finger, medium and thin flat pick as I went along so see what I could see. I’ve only made it through about ¾’s of the first parameter so who knows what else can be done with this one tone alone. Then there’s a myriad of mixes of all those parameters possible. This unit would probably be worth the cost for this one setting alone regardless of what the 99 others waiting in the wings produce.

The thought occurred to me of how it would be interesting if they made a rig like this that you could basically design your own pup to play. You know: number of coils, turns of wire, mixes of mags, etc. Well, they don’t use those terms for the parameters but it appears that’s pretty much exactly what they’ve done in terms of the end product - and beyond.

Ed

Lorenzini said:

No response yet, though you started this thread days ago.

Maybe you could begin with defining the terms you use in this overview. It's hard for someone who hasn't heard of V-Bass to understand what's going on. At least is it for me!

Click to expand...

Not really a thread likely to draw much feedback, unless it’s a correction by someone in the know. But I’m glad you posted your impression cause that perspective hadn’t occurred to me.

I assumed players would be aware of it’s existence since it came out around ‘02. Also that the gist could be digested from the context, even if details were evasive.

The manual doesn’t even list a glossary, it’s understood from context. I really have no idea what terms you may be referring to (COSM maybe - it‘s modeling) but if you toss a few out I’ll probably get a feel. But I’ll add a description of what a V bass is.

GK Pup & Acoustic Properties of the Individual Bass

Synopsis

I compared a GK3-B pup in an acoustically bright bass to the GK2-B in an acoustically midrange bass to see how well the Vbass actually does distinguish individual acoustic properties of the bass. Electronically these pups are the same to my knowledge. The conclusion in this experiment was no variation I could tell. There were some complicating variables so my take on this may change in the future. There was some follow up in Week 12. I didn’t compare conventional mag pups using the V bass unit cause it would have to be the same pup in both basses but I do know there is a significant difference between these two basses using the same mag pup through a conventional rig.


Whole Enchilada

Mounted the GK3-B pup in an acoustically bright bass to see how well the Vbass actually does distinguish individual acoustic properties of the bass - or if it’s one tone fit’s all. Comparing it to the midrange bass with the GK2-B. Functionally to my knowledge there is no difference between these two pups and the V bass manual doesn’t state otherwise. Due to the 13 pin adapter I’ve no way to do a quick switch side by side so I recorded them side by side. Just a cheap tape deck but passable. Premature and time will tell more definitively but the tones were so close I’d have to say no significant difference - as in the statistical .05 level of significance.

Seemed to sound a bit different in actually playing them but for starters it’s not a blind study and it takes a few minutes to shut stuff off, reconnect, and fire up. Assume the unit has a mute but haven’t looked it up. Or could have gone through the tuner which I think mutes but I didn’t. Still would be a significant delay regardless, just not as much.

If I think but don’t know something sounds different then it’s a nay in my book. Anything that gray solo would not show up in a band setting enough to matter if it showed at all, recording maybe. But this was one patch, a beginning, and less than ideal circumstances so it ain’t over. From what I’ve experienced with the Vbass so far, some patches are a lot more sensitive than others.

Another factor is I just mounted this pup and played the GK3-B to the settings of the GK2-B, I didn’t alter the parameters for this pup. It worked so well that it wasn’t necessary, but I didn’t even check. The basses are the same except their color and acoustic properties. If nothing else the intonation settings should be off but wasn’t noticeable if so. The acoustic properties may be more obvious if I adjusted accordingly though. Time will tell.

Either way not bad news. The V Bass is likely either fairly tolerant of a little variation on the GK pup setting with no discernible difference in tone or the GK pup settings need to be accurate to bring out the acoustic properties of the individual bass.

Week 2: Navigating The V Bass Experience


Synopsis

You can utilize the V bass as is plug and play or get as complex with it as you’d like. A plug and play approach is not going to tap into what the V bass can really do, or was designed for. The manual is lacking but fairly essential to get beyond a plug and play mode. For some perspective, it can literally take days to figure something out - WITH the manual. There are times when there seems to be no rhyme or reason to what’s going on, sometimes as easy as punching a couple buttons, and everything in between. In all, seems about as I expected: between something like a bass pod and a synth setup.


Whole Enchilada

I’ve had this unit for a couple of weeks already and it seems like one week. Hours fly by. For what it is navigation is pretty manageable. About like a Bass Pod when ran through the bass only. Adding the GK pup and COSM modeling takes complexity to a whole other level, or two , or three. Increased versatility and increased complexity go hand in hand with the V Bass. The manual was a must for me and even then there are holes and limitations.

The manual is not great but not bad either and definitely beats no manual at all. Has no glossary and the index is pretty useless. The table of contents I found most useful. Many of the same functions can be assigned to various places and so are located in several places in the manual. In general it’s difficult to remember what something’s called and/or where it’s located in the manual. It can take a while to figure something out - as in days. A number of times I’ve just let like the onboard pup control functions go for the time being and messed with something else then came back later. Eventually I stumble onto it (although setting the onboard control functions remain a mystery).

Some settings have to be saved for them to pull up the next time the unit is turned on and some don’t. It’s useful to write down my own terms and instructions at times, especially for something I don’t want to save at the time but may want to use later. There are automatic settings that can trigger a setting depending on the mode it’s in, although up to this point it’s seemed more like mood than mode. There are even global settings to adjust to venue acoustics. Looks as if the V bass can basically be shaped to suit ones needs and made as complex or simple as desired. However it’s no easier to make it simple than complex, it’s just simpler once it’s done. As predicted, complexity does seem to be pretty much between a pod and a synth. The V Bass would probably be a good stepping stone toward the world of synth.

In spite of the barrier of learning the V Bass, it seems a fairly unique and impressive rig overall. Every day I get a better feel for it’s capabilities and limitations.

The GK Onboard Control Unit & Associated Tones

Synopsis:

First off, there’s basically a pickup select switch on the onboard control for GK, MIX, Bass (Mag pup - or normal as it’s referred to in the manual) and a volume control. For MIX, through the V Bass unit you set the mix of GK/Mag you want. It literally works like a digital blend control. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell so far anyway, whatever value you set for MIX (say 60/40 = 60GK/40MAG) will be carried over to the GK pup when set to GK only (see correction at the bottom of this post). The tone of a patch at 100% GK pup and 60% can very from hardly being able to tell the difference to a significant difference depending on the patch (stock parameters).

In terms of the tone variation to the same patch in GK, Mix, and Mag modes, in general the GK setting and Mix settings will sound very similar (if not identical - often there is no Mag mixed in by the stock patch parameters) and the Mag will sound very different from those. Often the Mag will seem pretty anemic. However sometimes the Mag setting is actually much preferred and anything but anemic - depending on the patch.

Whole Enchilada:

Few days ago I installed the GK3-B in an acoustically bright bass with a Bongo pup in it ran straight to the jack. Since the 3-B is the only pup I have the cord to connect the GK pup to a bass mag pup (therefore hear the GK and Mag both through the same bass), it’s only recently I’ve been able to do side by sides to compare the 3 different pickup modes in the same bass.

First off, there’s basically a pickup select switch on the onboard control for GK, MIX, Bass (Mag pup - or normal as it’s referred to in the manual) and volume control. For MIX, through the V Bass unit you set the mix of GK/Mag you want. It literally works like a digital blend control. Unfortunately, unless I’m missing something to date, whatever value you set for MIX (say 60/40 = 60GK/40MAG) will be carried over to the GK pup when set to GK only.

In other words in selecting GK only you’d get only 60% of the full patch tone and the 40% mix from the MAG is just dropped out of the mix. The tone of a patch at 100% and 60% can very from hardly being able to tell the difference to a significant difference depending on the patch. Therefore, to my knowledge, the V bass can’t be set so your select switch would pull up say 100% GK, 60%GK/40%, 100% Mag for a given patch. Mag only as far as I can tell is always 100% Mag, regardless of the Mix setting, although I‘ll have to say I really haven‘t tested that to be a fact. Even if I just haven’t ran across a way of correcting the GK mix issue, you could take up an extra user memory space by saving to two separate settings. It would just be a lot easier to step on a pedal or flick the pup select switch and save the memory space.

Another strange thing is the volume knob on the control. I’ve frequently seen the GK pup referred to as a divided pickup but have yet seen an explanation for exactly what that means - including in the manual. But when the onboard control is set to MIX, the volume knob turned about ¼ way down and below effectively activates only the Mag pup (no volume graduation just on/off), from ¼ up on it gradual shuts off the mag and gradually increases the GK pup volume. So in a sense is duplicating 2 of the 3 settings on the select switch and effectively “divides“ the pickup. So maybe that’s what they mean.

In terms of the tone variation to the same patch in GK, Mix, and Bass modes; it just depends on the patch - and of course the blend mix you choose for mix. In general the stock patch in the GK setting and Mix settings will sound very similar (if not identical) and the Mag will sound very different from those. I’ve noticed with the stock patch, by tapping on the Mag, that often there is not Mag pup mixed in on the Mix setting at all so no surprise there. Often the Mag setting will seem pretty anemic. However sometimes the Mag setting is actually much preferred and sometimes more rich and full. On synth patches where you get the weird space stuff, the Mag setting will usually sound like a traditional bass tone. Sometimes you can here an effect (reverb, delay or whatever) otherwise it just sounds like a tone adjustment or even no variation at all. The URB patches on the Mag setting don’t sound like an URB but typically sound like a very rich and full basically P tone or maybe Hofner-like.

Depending on the blend combination you use, you can usually get a pretty useable tone from either the Mix setting or the GK but not both. On some patches you can get the ideal of a distinct and useable tone variation in each of the 3 selection positions, GK, MIX, Mag - but it‘s an exception not the rule. Keep in mind that this is altering only the pup selection with the standard patches. You can change the bass, amp, cab, and effects modeling of each of those patches and that will change the sound which may create a more useful variation. That’s not something I’ve messed much with yet.

6/06: Correction probably? Looks like the GK only does go to 100%, at least it just did. The mix doesn't change on the digital screen but I just played a patch to some tunes and there was an obvious difference between GK only and the mix. Sometimes tones stand out more solo sometimes they sound alike solo yet sound different played to music. Also, it seems frequently that it's not till you exit an adjustment that you really hear the full effect of it. Being in the adjustment mode dulls tone for some reason. I'll keep tabs on it and update with a definite in time. Logically, it should be 100% patch on the the GK only setting.

Week 3: Synth Patches & Real World Basslines


Synopsis

Comparatively few of the preset patches make for useful basslines running 100% V bass, but you’d probably have little trouble finding some that are useable till you got some user patches edited to taste. Of course there’s the option to skip the GK pickup and run the V bass through the conventional bass setup (skipping all COSM modeling). This creates more typical bass tones. Typically mixing in any GK pup will bring out whatever “springs” are in the patch. So far I’ve had no success at trying to edit a preset to eliminate what I find undesirable in the patch yet keep what’s appealing about it, changing one seems to change the other. To my knowledge you can’t mix preset patches.


Whole Enchilada


Week 3 and delving a little deeper into what this unit can do. My initial response to the synth patches was basically amusing but probably of little use for typical bass playing. When you lump some of the other patches in that aren’t specifically labeled “synth whatever,” there are actually a lot of these patches and it crossed my mind that maybe they forgot about the bass player early on when they were assembling this gadget. But at the time I also knew there was a lot more I didn’t know about the V Bass than what I did.

It looks like what they’ve done for the factory presets is just show you the extremes of what you can do so you‘re aware up front. In the end it seems you can be as off the wall or traditional as you choose. Premature at this point but I’m guessing pretty much ALL of the weird patches can be adjusted for practical application for typical bass playing, and probably several useful variations can be had from each patch. There’s a myriad of options that I have only just begun to wade through.

On the V bass, you can alter the mix within a patch but doesn’t look like you can mix different patches. Also to my knowledge, there’s no way to cut out part of the tone completely.

Probably the most useless sound I’ve run across is called crystal (as in pitch to crack it). Usually has a real nice low end, then they throw this irritating metallic top end on it that sounds like something out of a Chinese sitcom. To my knowledge, you can minimize but can‘t remove that part of it. And in minimizing you alter other aspects of the tone in the process - like cutting a tone pot. It would be useful as an occasional accent in a tune but you’re not going to run a bassline with it.

I pulled some synth patchs and just started going through the options to see what could be done with them. I quickly figured out that if nothing else, if I ran the patch through the mag pup only (skipping the GK pup), the tone was often decent and useable.

Synth patches typically have effects like reverb, chorus, whatever added so more contemporary than traditional bass tones - but they sounded like a bass not like a synth. I could turn effects on or off but I’m guessing then tone would just sound like the more traditional bass patches. I don’t know cause I haven’t messed with that enough yet. Kicking the GK pup in brought out the boings and sproings, etc. I tried cutting the mix to like 5% GK (ie very little sproing) and 95% mag but invariably in the process it cut the bass tone I wanted and left the sproing in. Why they didn’t do it the other way around, I have no clue.

So far I’ve only tried one synth patch through the mag pup only to music. It was decent, nothing to scream about, but indications of potential. There’s are a lot of possible adjustments and a lot of overlap in adjustments so it will take a while to know the limits in this respect.

Week 4: A Dive Into The Parameter Abyss


Synopsis

Trying to edit some of these patches to get a useable bass tone can be pretty time consuming and reflectively frustrating. The V bass is not user friendly. I’m guessing each patch has a core patch but it seems you can recreate any given patch in any of them, as if there‘s only one core patch. You can’t delete a patch and copy another patch into it’s place. Can’t mix patches or play two patches at once. With all the parameter adjustments on EQ you’ll still need something external with knobs for quick adjustment for variables that crop in live performance. Bottom line is if you stick it out you’ll be rewarded tone wise, but the V bass is not for a plug and play guy - unless your demands are minimal and it just so happens that a stock preset happens to meet the need at hand.


Whole Enchilada

Week 4 and getting more into the parameters. Still treading water for the most part so these comments may be way off the mark as reflected by the frustration experienced at the time but these are some thoughts from the week that was.

Man with the plan must have got canned early on. They had the right general idea and that‘s as close as they really got. It’s one thing to have a few weird patches thrown in for space cadets, but to the best I can gather the unit is loaded down with them because the bass patches can basically all be made to sound alike by simply adjusting the parameters to pretty much any one of them. So they really could have given you just one real bass patch.

The good thing about that is you’ve got several patches to fill with a programmable mix you want. Otherwise, you would have had only one user patch available for a given patch since you can’t delete a patch and replace it with another. The other good thing is some of the weird patches are salvageable by using the bass mag pup only (in other words if you had the Vbass unit but not the GK pickup - or ran your signal that way) cause a lot of the weird junk doesn’t come out in the patch that way.

Can’t combine patches or go into edit the core of the patch - like you could with a synth. You can adjust numerous parameters but they having nothing to do with the broings, shproings, and barrs that junk up tone. There are some real nice quality bass tones within these weird patches but you can’t extract that portion to make use of them. If you try to do so you pretty much end up with the part you didn’t want and none of what you did want. You basically get the same result if you try to thin the mix of it with maximal mag pup/minimal GK pup.

At this point I’m not sure what the real goal was. Whether they wanted to expand the bass player into the synth realm; offer up a one bass fits all unit; cover a smorgasbord of guitar, amp, and effects modeling; or all of the above. They definitely seemed to have missed the boat in offering up a quality killer bass rig - which this unit has all the makings for. There are decent sounds to be had and you could buy this and a low end bass and be set for a while - and learn a LOT for the future in the process. It may be more versatile but it’s not going to replace the tone of a quality bass guitar, at least I haven‘t gotten there yet. There are some potentially killer tones but you can’t use them for typical basslines or extract the part you want.

A bunch of weird stuff that could have been canned and replaced with something useful like real bass tones: growl, burp, etc. No drum patches but you can’t combine patches so the drum thing doesn‘t really matter but no piano? Don’t know how many guys have emailed me about the piano ring I got from round wounds on my Wave.

It could be that I haven’t figured it out well enough yet and that’s quite possible. It’s not a user friendly rig to get tones. I have spent a LOT more time reading the manual and pushing buttons than playing bass. But I’ve also spent a lot more time with a bass guitar in hand and it shows in playing. I assume the V Bass is not as complex as a synth but it’s not any easier to get a quality bass tone from, maybe worse. And in spite of all the EQ and parameter adjustments otherwise, you’re still going to need an EQ with KNOBS (either in a head or between the V Bass unit and amp) in order to adjust tone to individual tunes. Onboard controls won’t cut it unless you’re only using the normal bass pup (which means your not using any of the COSM modeling parameters). You can’t spend 10 minutes pushing buttons between tunes (forget about adjusting on the fly) and a programmed patch is not nearly fine tuned enough for the myriad of variables that crop up in the real world.

The worst of it is I feel teased with what could have been. The good news is as off the mark as it seems, there’s as much variety in the V bass as there is in a good assortment of basses and truck load of gear and you’ve got roughly 50 programmable patches you can fill to suit your needs, maybe half of which you can use the GK pup. Since you can‘t ditch the sproings, most of the synth stuff would have to be mag pup only. Plus side of that is you have onboard EQ to adjust to tunes for those patches.

* By chance does anybody have the Bass Player Mag review of this unit they can email, a link to it, or even feedback on it from a hard copy. I’m really curious how these guys could punch out a review on this thing in short order or what they made of it in the time span they had to work with. Seems like it was the October 2002 issue.

Marcus Willett said:

Been using the V-Bass for a few years now. From my experience, I got pretty good results using some of the "synth" patches, but independently blending with my mags through the EBS MicroBass. Several of the over-the-top (typical of Roland) patches yielded some very fine Moog-ish bass patches this way...and I was really unable to get them with a conventional setup.

I agree that the unit could have been more than it is, but great results can be obtained. Just this morning in fact, I did a recording with it and pulled up an old upright patch I had used a while ago, and after a fair amount of tweaking and getting just the right blend with the mags, I got a really nice DB-esque tone. I'll try to get a rough mix posted.

Nice work....keep it up!

Click to expand...

That's encouraging to hear from someone that's used one for a while.