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Dr. DIMENTO’S V-BASS PICKUP EXPERIMENT

Week 16: Tweak Time vs. Play Time

Synopsis

4 months with this unit so thought I’d toss out an impression of how the V Bass has brought about some changes in my bass experience.

For starters I’ve basically only played through the V Bass since I got it and time spent on a bass has about doubled. There has been a distinct progression from all tweak and no play initially to almost no tweak and all play as of late. Lately I’ll play for a few days then feel a need for a new tone or a modification and tweak till I get something productive or get my fill of it. Sometimes I’ll hear a sound and jump on the V Bass and try and replicate it. Regardless, it’s apparent editing patches will be a never ending process for lots of reasons.

The V Bass is a very expressive tool and is expanding my bass playing world in lots of ways. I play as much solo as to tunes now. I’ve pulled old guitar materials off the shelf, bought player tapes, downloaded tabs and tunes, listened to clips and new tunes, looking into doing some recording, and in general pay more attention to any sound thinking in terms of a tone. Playing atypical sounds alone generates novel play and thought process.

Whole Enchilada

For starters I’ve basically only played through the V Bass since I got it. Overall time spent with a bass in hand has doubled but, up to the last couple weeks, most of my time was spent learning/tweaking the V bass and intermittent dinking with riffs. There was a distinct progression from all tweak and no play initially to almost no tweak and all play as of late. Since the V Bass has no software-editing like the pod, the bass has to be in hand to generate a tone to hear what you’ve done. The up side of that is you’re always in playing mode and not sitting at some computer. As a result there are frequent tangents of steady play and nearly constant play of some sort going on. Also getting a tone on a unit like this amounts to a lot more than just the sound itself. I don’t know what you can get from software sitting at a computer but a BIG part of getting a desirable sound for playing bass comes from playing a real bass in a style appropriate to the tone with all the nuances involved (slap, slides, bends, pull-offs, etc.), hearing it through your rig, and trying it in tunes. The down side is the twiddle time wear and tear could be on your computer instead of your equipment and computer software may be superior in terms of actual editing.

As for REAL playing time, up till the last couple weeks, I felt my actual playing time was roughly cut in half. Since then my playing time has at least doubled. I find it’s increased my playing in terms of time spent producing sounds with a bass. I don’t play to tunes as much as in the past but spend a lot of time playing solo (which I seldom used to do at all).

In general I find the more I’m satisfied with the patches the more time I spend playing to tunes and playing solo. The less satisfied, the more time I spend tweaking patches. There’s a pendulum swing that occurs from having my fill of tweaking/perusing some curiosity on the V Bass, time spent playing patches, and feeling a need for some new sound. As of late I’ll go through a couple days of playing before feeling the need for some new sound searching. Sometimes I’ll just hear a sound and try to replicate it on the V Bass.

The V bass is a very expressive tool. The tone created at a given moment naturally evokes a style and phrasing appropriate to that tone which may be nothing like what I‘m accustomed to playing. While there’s value in playing such tone to tunes I am accustomed to playing (never know what a tone will sound like to a given tune till played), often it’s pounding square pegs into round holes and I can only take so much of that. Many of these tones are so different they force me into playing different. I hear different composition and arrangements in my head going along with them that vary from jungle drum/jug bass to Sproing City. I listen to sounds more, all sounds - especially weird ones: crickets, jets, whatever. Basically no sound's off-limits now. Turns out there’s hardly any contemporary soundtrack that doesn’t have some form of boing sproing tucked into it. I just hadn’t noticed. I’ve been more creative in terms of new licks, writing new songs, progressing on uncompleted songs.

Some other observations include that I can already tell modification to patches is likely a never ending process as there’s always room for improvement, needs change, and I get bored with sameness. As my patch editing’s improved what seemed a basic keeper patch has become comparatively boring. But the same patch can seem decent one day and a dog the next so it’s only over a period of time that I decide what gets deleted, which is not much to date. There’s also been a steady stream of tidbits indicating the solo/lead style of bass play will be ongoing in development. Something like the V bass is so expressive you’d have to be creativeless not to expand your playing world. I’m digging out materials I used to use for guitar that have bee shelved for years, buying player tapes, downloading tabs and tunes, listening to tunes, listening to clips and paying a lot more attention to sounds in general. It’s also got me looking into some simple recording (also something I’ve had no interest in). So there’s probably some clip recording forthcoming in the near future and whatever’s involved with that and I‘ll latch on to an interface for bulk transfer of patches. It also has me looking into expanding this realm in terms of a pod and a piccolo setup. In accord with my opening post to this thread, in deed it appears basses and an excessive inventory of pickups will be jettisoned (only to be replaced by the stuff I just mentioned - it‘s always somethin).
 
Week 17: Swapping Out Mag Pups & More

Synopsis

Couple things I omitted last week I should have mentioned. Tone quality has improved dramatically with the V bass over a basic rig. However control over getting a tone is another matter. I still feel as clueless on how to get a sound out of the V Bass today as I did the first week I had it - basically random stabbing. That can be frustrating to the point of masking improvements in tone and results in a roller coaster experience in progress. I’d also say compared to a basic rig, pup choice and acoustic properties of the bass aren’t as critical. In fact, on ebay it is common to see a low end bass with a GK pup attached to it and rare to see a mid range or higher bass.


Whole Enchilada

Couple things I omitted last week I should have mentioned. Tone quality has improved dramatically with the V bass - and you can accomplish as much with a cheap bass. I was basically accustomed to playing a bass straight through an amp with no effects so tones I used to play are comparatively boring. There are tons of good quality bass tones to be had from playing with the old approach and the simplicity is sweet for a fact. The problem I had was limited variety and flexibility in tone without major changes in rigging. Albeit good, comparatively tone tended to sound the same or have limited application.

Control over tone is another matter. After all these months I can’t say I have any better idea of how to create a given sound with the V bass than I did in the first week - it’s pretty random shooting in the dark. Frustration can get serious and this unit can make you want to take a sledge hammer to it if you don’t have something else going on you can turn to music wise.

In as much, if you’re not a tone junky something like the V Bass is probably not for you. A lot of non-playing time is involved. But for someone who’s into tone searching the time is basically just shifted from checking out other gear to tweaking tones on the unit - and you can skip the research, acquisition-resale/revolving door of gear, shipping hassles, and cash exchange that’s involved. When I eliminated routings in my bass, my GAS days for another bass ended abruptly. The V Bass has essentially done the same thing for bass gear with the exception of something comparable to the V Bass itself. And my guess is such searching is relatively splitting hairs and that any of them will get the job down adequately - one having an edge over another here or there maybe but probably nothing to abandon ship over.

Hit a flat spot so went to drillgun looking for some direction. Read about a comment for a Ric tone that basically said to pull the plug on everything the COSM does except the Ric tone itself. I’ve been wanting to do something with that string of URB/Arco patches anyway so I took all the standard electric bass models and did the strip down. Didn’t find anything I was excited about, they sound a lot alike, but they are the basic tones and there’s lot of things that can be done to give them some character so there’s more separation in the tones and more versatility in their application. So I did that on a few of them and in playing to tunes they sounded much improved solo but actually better to music when stripped down, not sure what the difference would be recorded.

Didn’t seem much was accomplished from that but there was the reminder of how nice it would be to be able to cut and paste a series of settings rather than dinking with one parameter at a time. Also I went back through my other edited patches and it was like a new appreciation for them. Some pretty good tones, fun to play, and a definite improvement over what was. My memory was also refreshed about how important it is not to delete a created patch till it’s stood tested failure over time. I bumped one patch to the end of the patch list but it’s actually a very good basic bass tone that works well to tunes - it just seemed comparatively bland. Although some of the more impressive tones are fun to play solo they don’t amount to much to music cause it’s hard to find a tune they work to.

Another thing I did was pull the Bongo pup and stuck in a Fender Custom Shop J. Obviously brighter pup and it showed in the mix - of course didn’t when set to 100% GK pup. The only other aspect that stood out was hum. While there were exceptions in the patches, the majority of the V bass patches accentuated hum to an intolerable level. Enough that I’d say the V bass is not for a noisy bass unless you have no plans to play through the bass mag. I haven’t done pup swapping otherwise with the V bass but I’d speculate in general pup selection is not that significant tonewise as most of the tone in generated through the V bass. It also seems acoustic properties of the bass have significantly less impact on tone through the V Bass.
 
Week 18: Play Time

Not much change this week, just playing the patches mostly. I was wanting to use the control pedal to toggle back and forth between two different amps for one patch but unfortunately that doesn’t appear to be an option. Another thing that I’ve thought about over time is noise. That I’m going to hold off on a conclusion for a while. Noise varies with a myriad of things and nothing much different for the V Bass than any other piece in terms of what enhances or diminishes noise. Other issues have had priority over noise so it just hasn’t been a concern and nothing I’ve spent any time with. I do have an interface headed this way.
 
Week 19: Digital Twilight Zone (USB Port)

Synopsis

Again not much change, just playing patches for the most part. Beyond that is was my first steps into the Digital Twilight Zone - midi, USB interface, recording.

Whole Enchilada

Did the get the interface so I could at least dump the patches onto the laptop. Windows XP already has the driver for the M-audio Uno so no need to load the driver, a surprise. Followed the V bass instructions for a bulk dump and it seemed to go as indicated as far as I know. Nothing came up on the computer whatsoever to indicate where the file went or what it’s called. So Uno’s? I sure don’t.

Another thing is there’s no icon that came up in the process like happens for loading digital pics. But the digital pic has a driver so maybe I need to install the driver to get it. The thought there is in terms of the disconnect process. I just shut the computer down before pulling the plug. Maybe loading the software would provide the folder to hold the files like the dig does. Now that I think about it, there’s no midi software in this laptop I’m aware of. Hmm?

Next on the agenda is to organize the user patches in sequence in some logical format sound wise. Not a quick process cause tones are scattered, 100 patches is a lot, and there’s lot’s of shades of gray in them. I wanted to do that before doing the bulk dump but I wanted to try the bulk dump process and see if it worked.

I also want similar tones side by so I can see how similar there are. Sounds can seem very similar solo yet very different played to music. Once they’re in sequence I can skip through them to tunes to see how similar they are in that respect.

I’ve also looked into recording to the laptop and have made some initial progress - just running the bass straight to the computer. Lot of garbage to wade through to what seems in the end will be a fairly simple process - ONCE it’s known. I’m guessing I should be able to use the Uno interface to record from the V bass tones.
 
Questions!!
Has anyone just put the <insert choice synth pick-up here> on a bass and NEVER used the mags?!?
Also, does it track better with the Graphtech saddle mounted system?
And when setting it up for alternate tunings (ie. standard 4 string EADG to BEAD or up to piccolo range) how does it respond? Tracking?

Thanks!!
 
MikeBass said:
Questions!!
Has anyone just put the <insert choice synth pick-up here> on a bass and NEVER used the mags?!?
Also, does it track better with the Graphtech saddle mounted system?
And when setting it up for alternate tunings (ie. standard 4 string EADG to BEAD or up to piccolo range) how does it respond? Tracking?

Thanks!!

If you're talking about playing through a V bass, (?) I play primarily through the Gk pup only. It's not uncommon for guys to use only Gk pup cause I've seen a number of guys on ebay sell basses with only the GK pup mounted and no mag pups/electronics in the bass - used in studio.

No experience with graphtech but I don't see where anything beyond the GK pup is needed for the V bass.

Thought about it but haven't got around to alternate tunings yet.

For single notes, there are no tracking issue's with the V bass per se'. Depending on the patch/settings, there can be issues with double stops, chords, sympathetic vibration, sensitivity to attack, whatever. Primarily using distortion or synth type stuff. There's nothing to me that indicates such issues have anything to do with the pup used. But in general there are no tracking issues as there are just so many tone variations that are useable for a given application with no such issues and I just stick to what the patch offers up in playing.
 
MikeBass said:
Has anyone just put the <insert choice synth pick-up here> on a bass and NEVER used the mags?!?
Also, does it track better with the Graphtech saddle mounted system?
And when setting it up for alternate tunings (ie. standard 4 string EADG to BEAD or up to piccolo range) how does it respond? Tracking?

For a while I did just that: using only the GK pickup. It works just fine, tho there is a very slight "inorganic-ness" to using the unit in this way, but again very subtle.

Only tracking issues I ever had/have is sometimes using patches that employ pitch shifting other than octave up or down, which is only dividing by 2 or multiplying by 2, so I can see that being easier.

Some patches can be a bit on the noisy side, but this varies quite a bit depending on several parameters. I have flirted with the idea of building a V-Bass controller, i.e., a bass with no mags at all and just the GK...mostly just for the fun of it.

Also have a GK on my piccolo, and it works just fine. Some of the more guitaristic patches work better with that since there is no need to transpose.
 
The GK pup works fine but the interface wart is big and ugly. Graphtech definitely looks better. I recently bought a Lightwave bass just so I can get their 13 pin out installed, I'll get around to it someday . . .

With my last band I was using the V-Bass only as a preamp/fx unit for mag basses (so I could go wireless) and it works great. It is worth having a GK bypass patch w/ fx (I use manual mode for on/off) set up so you can use the unit w/ any bass.

I organize patch banks around performances. A new band/project or even song equals a new bank. Everything else just serves as a library to pick from for new or current projects. My library is sort of organized (banks of fretlesses, synths, etc.) but I mostly saved synths because regular tones seem much easier to create on the spot.

I found that patch names are crucial. I want to know from reading the name if there is an amp and/or cab model on it, mostly because I don't want to use those patches when I plug into a regular amp. Same thing w/ bass model. The patch I used last night is labelled ActvTEstak for an active bass into a Trace Elliot stack.

I have definitely got my $s worth out of this unit. I have *many* good pedals and I can't see going back to them ever.
 
Week 20: Paul Westwood Experience (Bass Bible)

Synopsis


Got distracted trying to cop Paul Westwood&#8217;s tone(s) he used in the Bass Bible then going through and playing the riffs one by one, which I&#8216;ve never done.

Whole Enchilada

Five months. Again no screaming revelations or significant progress this week. Got hung up trying to cop Paul Westwood&#8217;s tone(s) he used in the Bass Bible then going through and playing the riffs one by one, which I&#8216;ve never done. The tones all sound like he used the same equipment (except the fretless stuff), just brightened it up for Stanley Clark, or did whatever for whoever.

Didn&#8217;t nail the Westwood tone but close enough. Maybe took an hour or so. Hard to get that rich tube tone just right and some of the grind and string grazes perhaps have more to do with action and round wounds. Still pretty fat tone with some rawness that captures the essence and it plays along quite passably. Never able to get anywhere close to the tone in attempts pre V bass days. The Sansamp Di may have approached it but never occurred to me to even try to cop the tone with it while I had it. Too bad cause the tube-likeness was the only appeal the Sans had to me.

As far as playing the riffs is associated to the V bass, it&#8217;s mostly just another example of how the V bass has a way of expanding your playing experience in ways that you can&#8217;t anticipate and, as likely as not, not have experienced otherwise. Going step by step through the various music styles was pretty cool and it was interesting how some lines sounded simple but were comparatively awkward to play. The James Brown stuff in particular. Never been into James Brown but I have more appreciation for his music now.
 
Week 21: Few Good Patches Go A Long Way

Synopsis


Mostly playing patches, some rearranging patches. There are enough fun patches (about 12 I&#8217;d guess) to play that I haven&#8217;t really felt much inclination to do otherwise for a few weeks.

Whole Enchilada

More playing, which is not a bad thing. Playing, not tweaking patches is what it&#8217;s about. I suppose it seems like not much is going on but it&#8217;s worth comment that there are enough fun patches (about 12 I&#8217;d guess) to play that I haven&#8217;t really felt much inclination to do otherwise for a few weeks. Each patch has a myriad of tone variations just using the GK/mag blend in conjunction with application of various techniques. In fact I just remembered the other day that I had started rearranging all the user patches and hadn&#8217;t finished that. I forgot all about it. That&#8217;s reflective of how easily you can get distracted working on a different aspects of the V bass. I get focused on the moment and everything else disappears. I figure tone can&#8217;t be too bad if I&#8217;m not looking around for something else.

I did get back to messing with organizing the patches once I remembered as much but only half way there. Not a fun project and I can only take so much of that. Aside from the intended purpose, I&#8217;m guessing doing so will reveal some useful information that would not be apparent otherwise.

For the 6th month post I&#8217;m thinking about condensing the first six months into some kind of at least preliminary review. Just so someone could skip to the chase if they wanted to. Still some areas that have had minimal exploration as well as untapped areas for sure, but should be the foundation of a final review at the least.

*Note: used to be you couldn't edit a post past 30 days from the last edit but apparently not the case anymore. New server maybe. Way to go Paul :hyper:
 
Week 22: Feedback On Partially Reorganized Patches

Synopsis

Did some more on arranging on the patches and I&#8217;m in the process of grouping them according to similar tone. Didn&#8217;t create any new patches. You can predict but not bank on what the patch will sound like from the bass model. A few comments on the noise suppressor including it can be especially irritating when the note decays and the noise becomes more pronounced. I&#8217;ve been having some recurring thoughts about looking into recording clips - so maybe something will come of that soon. Apparently there&#8217;s some incompatibility between the GK guitar and synth bass pups - which I&#8217;ve assumed the controllers would be identical. Otherwise it was playing time.


Whole Enchilada

Did some more on arranging on the patches. Got a brief description of all 100 written down - both full GK pup and full Mag pup (tone of which usually varies significantly) as well as the bass model. In the bass models it broke down to 43 Electric, 18 Vari Bass, 23 Fretless, and a sprinkling of Acoustic, Brass, WaveSyn, PolyOct, PD Shift, Poly Dis, and OscSyn. You can predict but not bank on what the patch will sound like from the bass model. A patch can sound nothing like the bass model depending on what&#8216;s done to it. When I did the editing I just edited the useless presets trying a little of everything just to get an acceptable tone and not paying attention to anything else.

The first 22 patches are Fretless (which is a lot) but Fretless is probably the best bass model in the V bass. Subsonic is the only one I don&#8216;t think I altered from the preset. Entwistle and Westwood were really the only patches I tried to cop a tone too but in the future there&#8217;ll be more of that for sure. Probably about 10 of the patches are what I&#8217;d call other than bass patches - synth, orchestral, etc.

In grouping patches according to similar tones, I expect there will be like patches (at least like enough to tunes) and perhaps some that are alike less delay (whatever) that could be assigned to the control/expression pedal to condense a patch. I have to take it in spells cause comparing patches makes me tone deaf after a while. Even then it&#8217;s not till tones are played to tunes that variations not only show their usefulness as well as more clearly distinguished from each other.


One thing I&#8217;ve noticed about the noise suppressor is that it cut&#8217;s out noise when not playing, so you don&#8217;t get that hiss from the cabs when idling. But when you strike a note there&#8217;s the noise. In theory I guess the idea is the note is more pronounced and therefore in essence covers up the noise. Which works okay except for higher frequency patches where the noise is flat pronounced - like the Entwistle patch. Most of the patches don&#8217;t have a noise issue but it&#8217;s not uncommon and in fact it can even be complimentary to tone - adding a shaker-like effect. Where it exists the noise level is pretty constant level so that the more the note decays, the more pronounced the noise is - and that&#8216;s irritating.


I also emailed Marcus about an internal GK guitar pup I&#8217;d run across and he said that Roland told him the GK guitar pups won&#8217;t work on the V bass. I&#8217;m guessing they&#8217;re talking about the actual pickup portion (which flows logically and is not a problem) and not the controller itself (which would be a problem). I&#8217;ll follow up and find out. But I&#8217;ve noticed there are some incompatibilities between different synth guitar units Roland has put out - not unlike Line 6&#8217;s bass pod incompatibilities.
 
luknfur said:
V Bass Week 22

Synopsis
I also emailed Marcus about an internal GK guitar pup I’d run across and he said that Roland told him the GK guitar pups won’t work on the V bass. I’m guessing they’re talking about the actual pickup portion (which flows logically and is not a problem) and not the controller itself (which would be a problem). I’ll follow up and find out. But I’ve noticed there are some incompatibilities between different synth guitar units Roland has put out - not unlike Line 6’s bass pod incompatibilities.

Huh? Why look at the guitar pickup? Buy the bass one, it works great

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-Internal-Divided-Pickup-Kit-for-Bass?sku=150096

The pic is wrong, the pup part looks the same but the controller wart is the part that is internal.
 
jondog said:
Huh? Why look at the guitar pickup? Buy the bass one, it works great

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-Internal-Divided-Pickup-Kit-for-Bass?sku=150096

The pic is wrong, the pup part looks the same but the controller wart is the part that is internal.

Because the internal pup new is $250. If the controllers are identical then if I run across a used internal guitar pup (much more likely than a bass unit) at a good price, it would be worth it to clip the pup off a GK-B unit. The unit being internal is mostly just a convenience to me at this time. Not that big of a deal.
 
Week 23: Spaced Activity

Synopsis


Back playing patches to tunes which I&#8217;d done little of for a couple weeks. On the V bass, I rotate going from one thing to another and back. Spaced activity can make for fresh reintroduction and the variety tends to be complimentary. It all works together. Seems like more of the user patches I&#8217;d created are working better to tunes. Though no more applicable than first perception, it also seems like I&#8217;m getting more tolerant of the preset patches.

Using the GK controller volume knob as a blend continues to work out very well. In terms of response, it&#8217;s not as predictable as using a blend on a conventional bass. In general though, the GK pup max&#8217;d (all V bass) tone tends to be active/compressed/synthetic/digitized, harder, darker, with the most pronounced modeling/effects - the Mag pup max&#8217;d just the opposite.

Curiosity resulted in a sampling of use of the controller and expression pedals in the preset patches cause it seemed their use was surprisingly sparing. In each set of 20 preset patches, it turns out there were 16 (80%) uses of the control pedal, 4 (20%) of the expression pedal, and 2 (10%) using both. So a lot more use of the control pedal than recalled.

Whole Enchilada

Still using the volume on the GK controller as a blend. Thought I would elaborate to give a better idea of tones that result cause it&#8216;s not predictable like a blend on a conventional bass. It can vary A LOT depending on the patch. Any set point can be the most desirable, unusable, or anywhere in between. Most of my playing is done within about a 25% range off either GK max&#8217;d or Mag max&#8217;d. Keep in mind these user patches are now exclusively bass tones with few exceptions - so really no patches are going from a synth to a conventional mag tone.

GK pup max&#8217;d is all V bass. Tone tends to be active/compressed/synthetic/digitized, harder, darker, with the most pronounced modeling/effects. This can yield a uniqueness to tone, add variety to a tune, or simply be just the ticket sometimes. If it&#8217;s just too much then often rotating some mag in will curb a lot of that digital purity as well as take some bite out of the modeling/effects so they don&#8216;t cut so well and therefore blend better with a tune.

Mag maxed is just the conventional bass mag running through the V bass. It&#8217;s the most natural sounding (what Marcus called more organic) with the least pronounced modeling/effects incorporated. In some patches that can still be very pronounced while in others just sound like a conventional bass. Tone is usually brighter and softer. Otherwise interestingly, quality of tone tends to be more alike comparing full GK and full mag than anywhere else along the blend spectrum. That may sound like a contradiction but maybe it&#8217;s something you just have to experience, they&#8216;re alike yet different.

The middle portion of the blend is usually louder, mid oriented, and often on the boxie side.

Volume changes along the blend spectrum but again is not predictable - varies with the patch selected. This is not typically a huge variation but it&#8217;s always a variation that is apparent played to tunes and typically requires a volume adjustment. Most often for me it&#8217;s lowest at Full GK and FULL Mag settings and graduates to maximum volume midway. Sometimes Full Mag can be the loudest and sometimes Full GK the loudest. There are means to deal with the volume fluctuations for practical applications but not something I've messed with yet and not an issue of concern.

I haven&#8217;t gotten around to using the control and expression pedal to incorporate effects/modeling into the user patches as yet. I have played the preset patches very little but it seemed to me that the control and expression pedals were used surprisingly sparingly in the presets. The significance of that is that heavy use of them in presets would be a source for ideas for application to the user patches. So I decided to take a sample of them using the first twenty and last twenty patches. In each set, it turns out there were 16 (80%) uses of the control pedal, 4 (20%) of the expression pedal, and 2 (10%) using both. So the control pedal was used a lot more than what I&#8217;d thought while the use of the expression pedal/combination was about as expected.

In the process of going through a fair share of the presets, I found I&#8217;m gaining more tolerance for them as time passes. I doubt they&#8217;re any more applicable than first perceived, but I&#8217;m more able to discern what they&#8217;re made of and more able to pick something of value out of them. It also seems like more of the user patches I&#8217;d created are working better to tunes. Spaced activity can make for fresh reintroduction. There are so many different things that can be attended to on the V bass, it&#8216;s not hard to let one aspect set while working on another. And the variety tends to be complimentary so that it&#8217;s like working sections of a jigsaw puzzle. But not only does each section help with the big picture, what&#8217;s learned is carried over into other sections and helps with them as well. So it almost feels like I've never really taken a break from working on anything.
 
Week 24: 6 Month Assessment Of Initial Objectives

6 months. Long time and it&#8217;s getting harder to remember pre V Bass days. Instead of a 6 month review I went back and created a Synopsis in the Weekly posts that didn&#8217;t have them and made a Table of Contents for them in the first post. That seemed a missing component in what was. Should help cut to the chase somewhat for particular info someone may be interested in - at least as well as the V bass manual accomplishes the same (appropriate enough). Also helps to refresh what I&#8217;d written so far which should be good prep for a review.

I did decide to assess my initial expectations listed in the first post, which is a review of sorts. So here&#8217;s a 6 month take on those initial objectives and the results: 87.5 percentile of 100 in number form.


Why My Initial Interest

I&#8217;m a Tone Junkie, I want LOTS of variety: :D

I suppose someone could exhaust the tone palette and/or grow tired of the tones available on the V bass but it&#8217;s not something that would happen any time soon.

Versatility is a priority: :D

Although large (in the sense of being a mini rig component), it&#8217;s still a plug and play piece once the tones are set. On the other hand running it straight to the house would make it a micro rig. It&#8217;s a pedalboard, it&#8217;s a wah/expression pedal; it&#8217;s a programmable preamp/di; it&#8217;s a tone monster (bass, cab, amp, effects modeling [simultaneous effects] with a variable chain); it can be set up as simple or complex as you want, assign controls as you desire - automatic/onboard/floorboard; back panel with balanced/unbalanced output, conventional bass in/out, headphones, auxiliary pedal, midi connection; you can adapt COSM for any bass and even ditch the cheesie/ugly/cumbersome onboard GK controller for an inboard unit if it&#8216;s that big of a deal. And that&#8217;s just what comes off the top of my head.


I like programmable gear for quick preset tone change: :D

Hands-free foot or typical onboard control. Create the patch to taste, place them in whatever order you want, skip through them and/or alter them without missing a beat.

Hoped to be able to cut down on bass inventory: :D

All but a couple basses are going. I&#8217;ve been playing one bass for 6 months. Although acoustic properties of the bass are apparent, they&#8217;re not significant enough through the V bass to justify retaining a bass for that purpose. As much as anything I had a wall of basses so I could swap various pups in and out; have access to a variety of tones available from them at any one time; and do side by sides.

Hoped to be able to cut pup inventory down to a minimum: :D

I&#8217;ve had over $5,000 in used pups revolve through the door. That would be 10K if bought new. Still have about a couple grand worth but that will at least be halved and would be significantly less if it didn&#8217;t include some expensive and hard to come by pups like Lane Poors and Alembics. Like acoustic properties of the bass, the pups aren&#8217;t as critical through the V bass either but a core group will stay for a variety reasons.

Hoped for quality tone: ;)

Effects and all that junk aside, there is a definite improvement over conventional mag tone and tone is taken to the next level for core bass tones. It also beats swapping pups in and out of basses to alter tone. Based on recall, definite improvement over like a bass pod - I figured skipping a conventional mag pup would get a purer signal and so produce the patch in unadulterated form. Being able to mix or isolate a conventional mag and GK pup was a plus though. Even running 100% conventional pup through the V Bas seems improved over the Pod. As a group the Pod tones seemed dark. However I didn&#8217;t tweak anywhere near as much on the Pod and I never even bothered with the software. At some point I&#8217;ll pick up another pod and do a side by side and see how it compares to the V bass. No two thumbs up cause I&#8217;d say what I&#8217;m pulling from the V bass is closer to comparatively higher quality tones, not killer tones.


Wanted to avoid tracking issues: :D

Virtually no tracking issues except slow slides across multiple frets on fretless patches, not discernible on up tempo slides. Tracking issues of a real synth still make it an unappealing option.

In with this I&#8217;ll include what I&#8217;d call Sensitivity to Technique Compared To Conventional Bass since it&#8217;s a variation on tracking and of interest to players. There are some things different about the V bass in this respect but in general they balance out - some on the minus side some on the plus side. Lot of subtle things and too many to list but since I mentioned a negative of the fretless slide I&#8217;ll mention one on the plus side which is you can separately adjust the volume for each string on the V bass. I use about every technique in the book and I'm more than satisfied with the responsiveness of the V Bass.

Wanted to avoid having to become a synthhead: :rollno:

I figured the V-bass would be sort of a half-way house between a synth and pod. - didn&#8217;t happen. Never messed with a synth bass but if it&#8217;s any more complex than the V Bass, not sure if I want to. The V bass wasn&#8217;t as bad as advanced math or computer programming but it&#8217;s probably no cakewalk for anyone those things don&#8217;t come easy to - which they didn&#8217;t me.

It would still be a plus to be able to play any sound you could sample, have access to a larger variety of preset patches, and mix patches.

Not a new gadget - I&#8217;m no test pilot, not into crash and burn. I want something with a track record: :D

Not sure how old this unit is but looks likes it&#8217;s been around. 2 plus hours a day and no issues with me to date. Gear that&#8217;s not reliable is all but useless, no matter how great the tones.

Have thought for a while to pick up a Roland cube to check out the COSM modeling: :hmm:

The V Bass has exposed me to the COSM modeling but I still want to check out a cube eventually. I primarily used my combo for quick fire to check out pup swap wiring. Since I don&#8217;t really swap pups any more, I really don&#8217;t use it. But it&#8217;s also a back up rig just to get audible sound so one will stay around.


Hoped to avoid having to set up a fretless bass: :D

Fretless V Bass tones are pretty top flight and as a group probably the best bass modeling - especially in terms of presets. It does track slow slides across frets but beyond that, it&#8217;s Jaco tone and more at the flip of a switch.

Stable Market value: :D

V Basses don&#8217;t show a lot (GK-B pups even less) and when they do prices remain pretty stable. They seldom go high dollar and almost never at a steal. That has not changed in some 7 months plus. Accordingly, I would at least break even if I sold this unit today. Pod XT Lives litter ebay and a used V Bass goes for about 33% more than a used Pod XT Lives goes for at peak. Used values on XT Lives have fluctuated about 33% over about the last 4 months.


*Note: I pretty much used to spend 30 minutes plus a day on ebay. Takes no more than 5 minutes to do my daily ebay thing now. Few isolated pieces is all I have any interest in. No real need for those, just want to check them out at some point. Basically, with the V Bass I'm good (or better anyway).


Something else I should mention (since this is a review of sorts) that I haven't followed up on to draw a conclusion is a few potential areas of concern that come to mind: one I've mentioned is noise on some of the patches and one I haven't mentioned is the V Bass will go ape on rare occassion and jump patches (supposed to be a locking mechanism to address that issue but I haven't even dinked with it to check it out). In addition, depending on the model and parameter settings, it's easy to get sympathetic vibration and stuff common with a synth like unintended triggering. This is can be remedied with few exceptions with improved technique and parameter adjustments. On the other hand the same thing can be a plus can you can generate very different usuable tones with varied attack, etc.
 
Week 25: Sabbatical

Synopsis

Plateau&#8217;d out on the V Basics. So for now the V Bass is for playing not tweaking beyond anything not already discussed.

Whole Enchilada

Sabbatical looks official now. Plateau&#8217;d out on the V Basics and looks like some knowledge of how some of these sounds are actually created may be necessary for the next step. Cause Edison I&#8217;m not and, beyond pure luck, trial and error is really only good for entry level stuff. I was skimming through some synth stuff and what&#8217;s involved in creating a digital tone makes me think more of Organic Chemistry or Assembler programming language than music. Not my idea of a good time.

So for now the V Bass is for playing not tweaking beyond anything already discussed. For entertainment will likely give the Bass Pod a go now and, if I get bored enough, maybe get around to some V Bass sound clips between now and it&#8217;s arrival - whenever that may be. Maybe even a remote chance of getting into some of the synth tone stuff.

FWIW: when the Bass Pod comes to pass, it will probably go under effects and I&#8217;ll post a link to in this thread for anyone interested. Probably will be done the same way I guess - chronological (or Journalistic as Greenboy says).

Who knows what I was "looking for" (which is where "Luknfur" came from by the way) but I just ran across some info that I either forgot or hadn&#8217;t seen, the GK-B is compatible with the Roland GR 20 which has a software upgrade for bass. It being a simple minded synth - a real one with a controller. Reviews look real good on it with tracking being like nanosecond off which won&#8217;t matter for the kind of bass I play. So may be piccolo time in Dixie - another distant plan I had beyond the pod and clips.
 
I find now after a couple years of having all the bands full with user patches, that after a gig I still occasionally tweak a patch, knowing that I can make it do something a little better than I could back when... Just yesterday I made one of my upright patches totally woody and thumpy, and the magnetics from the host bass provided a sound that stood well on its own and while blended with the upright sound supported all its vibe and did not seem to be there - until you took it away. Like two different versions of an acoustic standup. I could never get that close before.

I myself am not eager to do the synth thing on the side after having done that with wind drivers (woodwind looking) - in order to use it well I also had to build synth patches that really responded to the additional CC - continuous controllers - that wind drivers are good at providing. Also did it with guitars, and I hated patches that had instananeous attack because they sometimes revealed fals trigggering at the onset and on the low strings showed as much as a 20 ms delay I'd guess. Of course one can make that work in the right context (and I did), but with bass an octave lower those delays (some call this latency) are going to be twice as long.

So, not being able to do a string section or a chimy Rhodes with my bass takes a back seat to being able to play the gazillions of new sounds and blends I can make with great expressivity, and response to all the nuances of the hands.

Thanks for journalling, luknfur!