chords

Binnie said:

did anyone else get confused looking at chords for the first time? i was looking at this site([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) thinking i couldnt get any more confused

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It looks pretty clear cut to me....what is confusing you?

That was a great list of the most common chords and with clear explanations what they are made of. So thanks for sharing! I might use it for my guitar students.

What did you find confusing in the list?

The first thing you need to learn is the structure of the major scale. Almost everything you need to learn about music theory is derived from the major scale in one way or another.

Here's the C major scale:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, (C)

There's also some notes not belonging to the C major scale:

C#, D#, F#, G#, A#

or

Db, Eb, Gb, Ab, Bb

C# is enharmonic (equal to) Db, D# is enharmonic to Eb, etc.. (Actually they're not exactly the same in theory, but let's skip that discussion for now. On virtually all instruments they are in fact enharmonic).


The chromatic scale contains all notes there is (at least used in western music), and it looks like this:

C, C#, D, C#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, (C)


The distance between two neighboring notes in the chromatic scale is a half step. A whole step is then logically two half steps. Let's call the whole step "W" and half step "H". The intervals between the notes in the major scale are then:

W, W, H, W, W, W, H

You can make up a C# major scale by picking notes from the chromatic scale according to this pattern. It would consist of the following notes:

C#, D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C, (C#)

However, this example wasn't the best, because F above should actually be an E# and the C should be a B#. Anyway, I hope you got the point.

Then, we can number each note in the major scale (or other scales but let's stick to the major scale for now):

I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, (I)

Chords are built up from every second note in the scale, e.g. a C major chord is built up from these notes:

C, E, G

A C major 7th chord (Cmaj7) is built up from these notes:

C, E, G, B

However, a C7 chord (dominant) is built up from these notes:

C, E, G, Bb

More universally, you can describe these chord types using numbers:

Major chord: 1, 3, 5
Maj7 chord: 1, 3, 5, 7
7th chord: 1, 3, 5, b7


Hope this gets you started. This is all I care for putting into one post.

You've almost got it.

The scale is correct. You'd use F# instead of Gb. To put it simply, you need to use every alphabet letter in a diatonic scale (and indeed 99% of the other scales out there).

A Gmaj7 chord will then have G B D F#, like you said.

G7 chord has a dominant 7th. That means a minor 7th from the major scale (flat 7). In the case of a G7 chord it will be the note F natural, because the G major scale is:

G A B C D E F#

So flattening the F# will bring it back to F natural.

Make sense?

A simple way of finding the 7th in any dominant 7th chord is to simply go a full tone down from the root note (and then play it an octave higher) - similar to find the major 3rd is to go two tones up from the root note.

Binnie said:

so all major scales take this pattern? meaning;

G major would look like this

G, A, B, C, D, E, F#/Gb, G ?

G major 7th chord (Gmaj7) would be G, B, D, Gb ? but then that would mean G7 chord (dominant) wouldnt end on the #F?

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You're right about the G major scale, but use F#, not Gb, as the 7th note. For clarity reasons it's better if two notes in a scale don't start on the same letter. Also investigate the circle of fifths, it has been posted here a lot (do a search). Basically there's keys you use sharps (#) in, and other you use flats (b) in. Don't mix them.

As was mentioned on the page you linked to, the dominant chords, e.g. G7 (G, B, D, F), are made up from the mixolydian mode. The G mixolydian scale consists of the same notes as the C major scale, but it starts on the fifth note (G) instead:

G, A, B, C, D, E, F, (G)

You see the F there? That's the only thing that is different between this scale and the G major scale.


Now we should probably start speaking about chord progressions. Let's pick a simple I - IV - V - I progression:

I : C (C, E, G)
IV: F (F, A, C)
V: G (G, B, D)


Then let's add a fourth note to each chord. Imaj7 - IVmaj7 - V7 - I:

Imaj7 : Cmaj7 (C, E, G, B)
IVmaj7: Fmaj7 (F, A, C, E)
V7: G7 (G, B, D, F)

You see the notes are all within the C major scale and the G7 fits in perfectly. Play the progression and you hear what I mean.

If you put in a D, E or an A chord, you'll notice they'll have to be minor chords if you want to stick to chords belonging to the same key. The difference between a major and a minor chord is that the third (second chord note) is lowered:

C major: C, E, G
C minor: C, Eb, G (here again, don't call the Eb a D# as it confuses things up)

So let's sub things up a little again:

C: C, E G
Dm: D, F, A
Em: E, G, B
F: F, A, C
G: G, B, D
Am: A, C, E

See I didn't put in a chord for the B? That's because it's a diminished one. It would be B, D, F, but that usually don't sound very good and a fourth note is mostly added to make it sound nicer... Then you get B, D, F, A. However there's better ways to voice that chord to make it sound nicer. My fav is to voice it A, D, F and play the B in a lower octave on the bass instead. Then again you notice the A, D, F chord is just another voicing of D minor, but changes character when you put the B in the bass....... Nice, huh?



I think you will start seeing the whole picture now. There's a lot to learn and this is just scraping the surface..

Hrm... you explained that better and in more detail... not that it's a competition.

i don't have anything to add to the excellent information provided above other than to suggest studybass.com for some excellent coverage of the fundamentals, including intervals and chords.

Scott

Binnie said:

so the reason for the Dm, Em and Am is used is because the Majors consists of Sharp notes i.e. (f#) is now a F in the Dm scale meaning it will sound nicer

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Essentially, yes. Having a Dm chord in the key of C works because it's diatonically correct (that's a word worth learning about if you wish to continue studying this sort of thing), meaning it's true to scale. But a D chord will work in the right context (as in certain II-V-I progressions) but for now just accept that Dm is the correct chord to use here to keep everything true to key.

Binnie said:

so the reason for the Dm, Em and Am is used is because the Majors consists of Sharp notes i.e. (f#) is now a F in the Dm scale meaning it will sound nicer?

--

thanks for the help so far appreciate it

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No. It has nothing to do with sounding nicer.

Minor chords have a b3 instead of a M3. This means that the third is three semitones up from the root note of the chord. A minor chord MUST also have a P5, otherwise it is something else.

So if a minor chord was in C it would have the notes C, Eb and G. If it was in A it would be A C and E, etc.

mutedeity said:

No. It has nothing to do with sounding nicer.

Minor chords have a b3 instead of a M3. This means that the third is three semitones up from the root note of the chord. A minor chord MUST also have a P5, otherwise it is something else.

So if a minor chord was in C it would have the notes C, Eb and G. If it was in A it would be A C and E, etc.

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Correct. Just for clarification, a P5 is a perfect fifth, e.g. the interval between C and G. The M3 is the regular major 3, which is four semitones (I think I called them halfnotes in my previous posts) above the root note.

About the "nicer" thing - no it doesn't have to sound nicer. In fact, it's often interesting to put in something that isn't diatonically "correct".

Please excuse the ingorance of a fellow TB'er who has virtually no knowledge of theory.

When it says R, b3rd, 5th, the "b3rd" means flatted third, no?

Binnie said:

so the reason for the Dm, Em and Am is used is because the Majors consists of Sharp notes i.e. (f#) is now a F in the Dm scale meaning it will sound nicer?

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Dm, Em, and Am are played as minor in this case because those chords are naturally minor in the key of C. In any Major Key, the ii, iii, and vi chords are always minor.

C: C, E G
Dm: D, F, A
Em: E, G, B
F: F, A, C
G: G, B, D
Am: A, C, E

are classed as chords?

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yes. any group of 3 or more tones, ( generally stacked in thirds,) is a chord.

and they are played at the same time? or are they then placed back into the 24-124-134 pattern ?

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Not sure what you are asking here... chord tones can be played simultaneously or in sequence (called an arpeggio.) on Bass they are usually played in some kind of sequence rather than simultaneously because basic chords in the lower register can sound very muddy. Most bass lines will incorporate non-chord tones from the(such as the 2nd and the 6th) as well.

For typical bass playing, the guiding idea is to use the chordal knowledge to construct rhythmic /melodic idea which incorporates chord tones while avoiding tones that clash with the chords.

Just subscribing so I can find this again, this thread just turned into a whole load of very useful to know stuff.

Thanks