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chords

#42
I've never heard that song but from the tab its in F# Major which happens to be Eb minor

The first chord and last chord of the song are usually indicators of the key in this case pretty much everything revolves around F# so its pretty safe to assume that is your first chord...everything else also fits (at least for the verse and chorus). The tip off that its major and not minor is the A#(major third/1 on the A string) instead of an A(minor third). Also the E#(F) is a major 7th in this case.

F# = root/I
G# = ii
A# = iii
B = IV
C# = V
D# = vi
E# = vii (note: it's written as E# because there is already an F in use and no E)

The reason the song is in F# major and not Eb minor is because the first chord is F#major if the first chord was EbMinor then the song would be in minor.

An easy way to check if you got the key right is to look up the chords (for guitar/vocals) to the song.

Time for me to go to band practice...keep posting any questions people around here are always pretty helpful.
 
#43
Binnie said:
is it worth taking bass riffs from tabs now and working out chords and scales from them?
Click to expand...

That's the whole idea.

Once you do this for a handful of songs these concepts will really begin to sink in as you see their real world applications. Plus it's good for memorising the notes of the fretboard.

After going through DudeistMonk's example, try figuring one out yourself and then report back here with your findings. Provide a link to the song via tab or youtube and we can discuss it from there.

It's important to provide an example of your own working so from there we can clear up any points that may need correction :)


Probably the best way to do this is to work out all the notes first, then write them in order, then work out the intervals between the notes. Find where the major and minor scales are using the intervals and notes, then establish whether the song is predominantly major or minor by find the song's root note (a lot of songs will have a minor root for the verse and a major root for the chorus, using the same notes... relative major and minor) Good luck!
 
#45
Very good.

Ok, so this song is actually A minor pentatonic.

The note B (the 2nd) is only used as a passing note in the chorus riff, and nowhere else is the note used (not guitar nor vocals). The absence of either F or F# (the 6th of the scale) confirms this.

The minor pentatonic scale only has 5 notes. It's basically a minor scale with the II and VI scale degrees omitted. So we get this:

A C D E G

We still think of the C as III, the D as IV, the E as V and the G as VII, due to their relationship with the root, the note A.

So yeah, for all intents and purposes you got it right. :)
 
#47
so going all the way back to - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

C Major is C E G
CM7 is C E G B
C7 (dominant) (?) is C E G Bb ?
Cm is C Eb G?
C-7 is C Eb G Bb?
Diminished Chord - C Eb Gb
half Diminished 7th Chord - C Eb Gb Bb ?
Co7- C Eb Gb A?
C+ - C E G#
C6 - C E G A ?
c-6 - C Eb G A?
 
#50
You move into the second octave.

So a Cmaj7 (add 9) chord would be:

C E G B D

The C7 (add 9) chord is:

C E G Bb D


Look at it this way:

C D E F G A B C D E F G A

Where the bold tones are your chord tones (I III V VII IX XI XIII).

Basically, to add all the chord tones in one chord and stacking them in thirds, you'll have:

C E G B D F A

Which on paper is a Cmaj 7 (add 9, 11, 13). Pretty big chord!!!



If you see a C9 chord, generally you use the major triad (no 7th) and add the 9th, so you get:

C E G D (C E G is your major triad, D is your 9th)



C11 (C major triad and the 11th scale degree) - C E G F

C13 (C major triad adding the 13th scale degree) - C E G A (the A must be up the octave otherwise you'll play a C6 chord. But they're basically the same chord)



So for chord construction in C major by thirds (which we do most of the time) you have these chord tones, in order (ascending):

C I
E III
G V
B VII
D IX
F XI
A XIII


There's a bit more to it, but for now that'll keep you busy :)
 
#52
Just an ignorant question: Instead of remembering the notes, why not simply remember the finger patterns up and down the fretboard? Isn't it so, that if you have the pattern down for one root note you can play it in the same fashion anywhere on the fretboard?

I am not against learning and remembering the actual notes, but still aim for "the way of least resistance"... :)
 
#53
Well, that is a good way to start. However, when you've learnt the pattern, practised and committed to memory, then what? You're not actually any closer to learning about how it all fits together, you just know when you see X chord play X arpeggio. Granted you get used to playing different keys, but the interrelation of the notes and how they harmonise with each other is one of the fundamentals of scale and chord theory, and without further developing your knowledge and understanding it'll still not make much sense.
 
#54
Binnie said:
so with the C9 and the C11 the second octaive can be anywhere on the fret board?
Click to expand...

Yes, because it's the pitch of the note that's (relatively) important. You can play the C9 (C E G D) apreggio like this:

Code: 
G|-------7-|
D|-----5---|
A|---7-----|
E|-8-------|

or this

Code: 
G|----------|
D|-----5-12-|
A|-3-7------|
E|----------|
But you can also put the chord tones at differing octaves, like this:

Code: 
G|---------10-|
D|------12----|
A|---10-------|
E|-8----------|

When you start moving the root to different higher octaves than other chord tones you get inverted chords:

Code: 
G|-------7-|
D|-----2---|
A|---3-----|
E|-3-------|

It's inverted because the root note (which is also known as the tonic) is no longer at the 'root' of the chord, ie. the lowest pitched note.

At the end of the day it's generally considered the intervals in scale tones that determines the chord, not the pitch (from here this gets into a tricky and confusing area of chord theory so we'll leave it here for now)
 
#56
You never really do anything "after keys". It's something you always do. Take a concept, learn it, then try it out in other keys.

So, with what we've gone through here, go back to the start and pick a different key, let's say G. Get the major scale, then work out your different chords in G, like you did above in C. Once you've done that try another key, like F. Keep going till you've done a at least half a dozen, though I recommend all of them if you can for a true grasp of the concepts and how the apply. Then you'll also gain some understanding of transposition.

Once you've done this we can look at a bit of both, but modes would be better territory to cover next.
 
#57
G Major - ( G B D ) G A B C D E F#
Gm - ( G Bb D) G A Bb C D Eb F
Gmaj7 - G B D F#
G7 - G B D F
G-m G Bb D F
Go(diminished) - G Bb Db
1/2 Diminished - G Bb Db F
Go7- G Bb Db Fb
G+ - G B D#
G6 - G B D E
g- 6 - G Bb D Eb
--------------------
(still a bit confused on this one still) ( so on "9th" chords i dont use "7th")?
Gmaj9 - G B D A ( R, 3rd 5th, 9th)
G9 - G B D A (R, 3rd, 5th, 9th)
G-9 - G Bb D A (R, b3rd, 5th, 9th)
G11 - G B D C (R, 3rd, 5th, 11th )
Gmaj11 - G B D C (R, 3rd, 5th 11th)
G 11 - G B D E (R, 3rd, 5th, 13th)#
Gsus - G C D (R, perfect 4th("11th"), 5th)
 
#58
Jake of Bass said:
You move into the second octave.

So a Cmaj7 (add 9) chord would be:

C E G B D

The C7 (add 9) chord is:

C E G Bb D


Look at it this way:

C D E F G A B C D E F G A

Where the bold tones are your chord tones (I III V VII IX XI XIII).

Basically, to add all the chord tones in one chord and stacking them in thirds, you'll have:

C E G B D F A

Which on paper is a Cmaj 7 (add 9, 11, 13). Pretty big chord!!!



If you see a C9 chord, generally you use the major triad (no 7th) and add the 9th, so you get:

C E G D (C E G is your major triad, D is your 9th)



C11 (C major triad and the 11th scale degree) - C E G F

C13 (C major triad adding the 13th scale degree) - C E G A (the A must be up the octave otherwise you'll play a C6 chord. But they're basically the same chord)



So for chord construction in C major by thirds (which we do most of the time) you have these chord tones, in order (ascending):

C I
E III
G V
B VII
D IX
F XI
A XIII


There's a bit more to it, but for now that'll keep you busy :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, but some of this is wrong, or at least highly nonstandard with respect to most forms of music today.

A C9 chord is C E G Bb D. That's the standard way of rendering it. It's not C7(add 9). You absolutely DO use the Bb, because that what makes it a C9 and not a C(add 9) or a Cmaj9.

C E G D is C(add 9), not C9.

C E G B D is a Cmaj9, not a Cmaj7(add 9).

C11 is technically C E G Bb D F, but the E typically is not played, so what you generally have is C G Bb D F. It is definitely not C E G F.

C13 is not C E G A, and it's not basically the same chord as C6 aside from the voicing (which is a whole other subject). It's technically C E G Bb D F A, but in this case the F is typically not played, so you get C E G Bb D A. It has to have at least the b7 and the 9, or else it can't be a 13.

Not meaning to jump on you, but in the interests of passing on the best info we can, it's important to get these things right.
 
#59
Binnie said:
(still a bit confused on this one still) ( so on "9th" chords i dont use "7th")?
Gmaj9 - G B D A ( R, 3rd 5th, 9th)
G9 - G B D A (R, 3rd, 5th, 9th)
G-9 - G Bb D A (R, b3rd, 5th, 9th)
G11 - G B D C (R, 3rd, 5th, 11th )
Gmaj11 - G B D C (R, 3rd, 5th 11th)
G 11 - G B D E (R, 3rd, 5th, 13th)#
Gsus - G C D (R, perfect 4th("11th"), 5th)
Click to expand...

No, you do use 7ths in 9 chords--I'm afraid the info was not entirely correct.

In 11 chords, you use the 7, 9, and 11, but you typically leave out the 3 in the chord because of the clash with the 11. (Never say "never," though; there's enough music out there in the world that I'm sure counterexamples using both the 3 and the 11 could be found. For example, you could voice the 3 high, above the 11, and there would be less of a clash, because you'd be hearing a major 7 interval, F-E, rather than a minor 9 interval, E-F.)

In 13 chords, you technically use the 7, 9, 11, and 13, but in practice, again, you leave out the 11 because of the clash with the 3. (Exception: if you have something like a 13(#11) chord, where the clash is less of a problem and the specific character of the #11 is what's wanted.)
 

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