chords

[Richard Lindsey]

So

Gmaj7 is G B D F# A?
G7 is G B D F A?
g-9 G Bb D Fb A?
Gmaj11 - G (B) D F# A C?

Closer.

Gmaj7 is right.
G B D F A is G9. G B D F is G7.
Gm9 is G Bb D F A.

Gmaj11 is not a chord name you see very often, I think; I can't remember the last time, if ever. If you considered it a G11 with an F# (ie, a major 7) instead of an F (ie, a flat 7), then you would have G (B) D F# A C, again probably leaving out the B because of the clash. In practice, however, that would probably be more likely to be heard as, and consequently written as, a D7/G (ie, a D7 chord over a G bass).

You might be more likely to see something like a Gmaj9(#11), which would be G B D F# A C#.

 

[Jake of Bass]

Sorry, but some of this is wrong, or at least highly nonstandard with respect to most forms of music today.

A C9 chord is C E G Bb D. That's the standard way of rendering it. It's not C7(add 9). You absolutely DO use the Bb, because that what makes it a C9 and not a C(add 9) or a Cmaj9.

C E G D is C(add 9), not C9.

C E G B D is a Cmaj9, not a Cmaj7(add 9).

C11 is technically C E G Bb D F, but the E typically is not played, so what you generally have is C G Bb D F. It is definitely not C E G F.

C13 is not C E G A, and it's not basically the same chord as C6 aside from the voicing (which is a whole other subject). It's technically C E G Bb D F A, but in this case the F is typically not played, so you get C E G Bb D A. It has to have at least the b7 and the 9, or else it can't be a 13.

Not meaning to jump on you, but in the interests of passing on the best info we can, it's important to get these things right.

Yeah I was a little unsure. Because in some books I've read it one way, and then the other. In college two teachers taught it different ways. But thanks for clearing that one up. I was just trying to provide the best answer I could with the knowledge I've been given.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Yeah I was a little unsure. Because in some books I've read it one way, and then the other. In college two teachers taught it different ways. But thanks for clearing that one up. I was just trying to provide the best answer I could with the knowledge I've been given.

It's all good. After all, we're just trying to pass on the best info we can. I think your earlier posts were quite helpful to the OP.

 

[Binnie]

i think every single post has been helpful, at least i have some idea about chords now .


so Am9 would be A Cb E Gb B?
A7 - A C# E G#
A9 - A C# E G B

 

[Jake of Bass]

Awesome. Once you've got a grasp on the triads (being I III V) in any given key you can add the extensions and it becomes much easier. By the sounds of things it looks like you're well on the way there.

From here we can look at inversions and modes.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

i think every single post has been helpful, at least i have some idea about chords now .


so Am9 would be A Cb E Gb B?
A7 - A C# E G#
A9 - A C# E G B

Not quite.

Am9 is A C E G B.

A7 is A C# E G. A C# E G# is Amaj7.

A9 is correct. A9 and A7 have four notes in common (A C# E G); the A9 just adds a B on top. Amaj9 and Amaj7 also have four notes in common, but there is a G# (A C# E G#); the Amaj9 adds the B on top.

You'll need to get familiar with the concept of intervals. Once you do, can generate any chord you want from any starting point you want.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

ook so there are 7 modes, correct? they start on the II note of each scale?

i.e C major would start on a D? meaning it would be D E F G A B C D?

node names

C ionian: C D E F G A B C
D dorian: D E F G A B C D
E phrygian: E F G A B C D E
F lydian: F G A B C D E F
G mixolydian: G A B C D E F G
A aeolian: A B C D E F G A
B locrian: B C D E F G A B

There are more then 7, but the 7 you mentioned are sort of the "basic set," frequently referred to as the "modes of the major scale," though it's a mistake to think that they're inextricably linked to the major scale. What you have is right as far as it goes, but a better way of hearing them as distinct modes is to run them all from the same root.

C ionian: C D E F G A B C
C lydian: C D E F# G A B C
C mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb C
C dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb C
C aeolian: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
C phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C
C locrian: C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C

If you want to get into modes at all right now (and their importance is often overstated IMHO), it's IMO best to let go of the assumption that they have to be tied to the degrees of the major scale. That can complicate things and lead to unnecessary confusion in some circumstances.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Reading all the threads and help i first want to say Well done to all who are helping Binnie, that is what i believe good sites like Talk bass are about. As you go through the threads you begin to realize how confusing things get if you get ahead of yourself when learning, as certain parts of theory do not make sense because you missed an earlier part. A good example is when a stage hypnotist takes away the number 8 and askes the person to count to ten on their fingers. They cannot, they count 11 fingers and cannot understand it as they know they have 10 fingers. We all laugh as they keep trying but always get 10 because they have missed a bit of information....the number 8. It now be comes clear that music or music theory, or whatever you want to call it has rules and an natural order......if you want to teach it easily and successfully. What we have here is Binnie not knowing the rules or natural order. As teachers we teach the lessons, we control what the student learns. So start from the beginning and only move on when you understand what you have learned and successfully applied it. You may not appreciate it now but i'm sure there will be few on this site that will testify that learning theory did not help them in their playing

 

[Jake of Bass]

What he's saying is learn the modes as a separate thing from each other. Yes, they're all very interconnecting within a key. It's better (and a little trickier I admit) to think of modes as standalone keys within their own rights. Because some songs have their key centre within a given mode, not the major or minor scales. This is touching more upon key centres.

Having said that it's true modes can be overstated. In a practical sense you're much more often better to work with the given chord you're playing at the current moment within the context of the given key and going from there, as music can really be a lot more fluid and changeable than what we're discussing here. But you need to understand all this stuff and more before you can consciously and deliberately start messing with harmony, on a theoretical level.

Ergh, I think I've just made all that more confusing.

 

[Binnie]

ok lets try again then.

Fmaj9 is F A C E G?

Dominant 7 is F A C Eb?

which would lead to F9 being F A C Eb G?

F-9 F Ab C Eb G Bb

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Right So Am9 is ( R, b3rd, 5th, b7th, 9th)

A minor is A B C D E F G A?

so why is Am9 A C E G B.

Because when you say things like b3 and b7 in this context, the usual underlying assumption is that you're thinking in relation to the major scale. The minor scale already includes certain alterations, so by flatting them again you're doubling what you're supposed to be doing.

You could think of this either as (1) alterations that have to be performed on degrees of the major scale to yield the desired chord or (2) specific intervals from the root (eg, minor 3rd, diminished 5th).

 

[Jake of Bass]

Spot on

You've definitely got the grasp of it.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

ok lets try again then.

Fmaj9 is F A C E G?

Dominant 7 is F A C Eb?

which would lead to F9 being F A C Eb G?

F-9 F Ab C Eb G Bb

The first 3 are all correct.

Fm9 is F Ab C Eb G. If you add a Bb on top, what you get is what's generally called Fm11.

 

[Binnie]

The first 3 are all correct.

Fm9 is F Ab C Eb G. If you add a Bb on top, what you get is what's generally called Fm11.

yea just relised i went one more than i should

so are these all the basic chords i need or is there many more?

 

[Jake of Bass]

You've also got suspended chords.

You have two (that I know of) variations of suspended chords. Sus4 and sus2.

Csus4 is basically taking the 3rd of the chord and making it a 4th - in effect 'suspending' it. So your chord tones will be C F G.

Csus2 is the same concept, only the third is now suspended to the II scale degree. So you're chord tones are C D G (though usually we'll play the D an octave higher because the interval of a second is considered to close together in this instance).

 

[Richard Lindsey]

yea just relised i went one more than i should

so are these all the basic chords i need or is there many more?

Well, no one can really tell you what are all the basic chords you need. We don't know what you need.

But if you have a grasp on all these (not an exhaustive list), you can get pretty far (I'm just using C as an example; you would benefit from knowing all these in all keys):

C, C6, C6/9, Cmaj7, Cmaj9

C7, C9, C11, C13

Cm, Cm6, Cm7, Cm9, Cm6/9, Cm11

C+, C+7 (or C7#5 or C7+5)

Cdim, Cdim7

Csus4, C7sus4

Csus2

C(add9)

Then, many of these chords can occur with other alterations, like #5 or b5, #9 or b9, #11, etc.

 

[Binnie]

so is the following right?

Major Chord:

A - A C# E
B - B D# F#
C - C E G
D - D F# A
E - E G# B
F - F A C
G - G B D

Major 7th:

A - A C# E G#
B - B D# F# A#
C - C E G B
D - D F# A C#
E - E G# B D#
F - F A C E
G - G B D F

Dominant 7th:

A - A C# E G
B - B D# F# G
C - C E G Bb
D - D F# A C
E - E G~ B D
F - F A C E#
G - G B D F

Minor:

A - A C E
B - B D F#
C - C Eb G
D - D F A
E - E G B
F - F# Ab C
G- G Bb D


Minor 7th :


A - A C E G
B - B D F# Ab
C - C Eb G Bb
D - D F A Cb
E - E G B Db
F - F Ab C E
G- G Bb D E

 

[Richard Lindsey]

so is the following right?

Major Chord:

A - A C# E
B - B D# F#
C - C E G
D - D F# A
E - E G# B
F - F A C
G - G B D

Major 7th:

A - A C# E G#
B - B D# F# A#
C - C E G B
D - D F# A C#
E - E G# B D#
F - F A C E
G - G B D F [no, F#]

Dominant 7th:

A - A C# E G
B - B D# F# G [no, A]
C - C E G Bb
D - D F# A C
E - E G~ [no, G#] B D
F - F A C E# [no, Eb]
G - G B D F

Minor:

A - A C E
B - B D F#
C - C Eb G
D - D F A
E - E G B
F - F# [no, F] Ab C
G- G Bb D


Minor 7th :


A - A C E G
B - B D F# Ab [no, A]
C - C Eb G Bb
D - D F A Cb [no, C]
E - E G B Db [no, D]
F - F Ab C E [no, Eb]
G- G Bb D E [no, F]

Mostly, but not completely. See interpolated corrections.

 

[Jake of Bass]

so is the following right?

Major Chord:

A - A C# E
B - B D# F#
C - C E G
D - D F# A
E - E G# B
F - F A C
G - G B D

Major 7th:

A - A C# E G#
B - B D# F# A#
C - C E G B
D - D F# A C#
E - E G# B D#
F - F A C E
G - G B D F

Dominant 7th:

A - A C# E G
B - B D# F# G
C - C E G Bb
D - D F# A C
E - E G~ B D
F - F A C E#
G - G B D F

Minor:

A - A C E
B - B D F#
C - C Eb G
D - D F A
E - E G B
F - F# Ab C
G- G Bb D


Minor 7th :


A - A C E G
B - B D F# Ab
C - C Eb G Bb
D - D F A Cb
E - E G B Db
F - F Ab C E
G- G Bb D E

That's excellent. you're covering a lot in little time.

There are a couple points here to look at. Some are typos perhaps. Here we go.


Dominant 7
B7 (B7) - B - B D# F# G - change the G to A.

E7 - E - E G~ B D - pretty sure that's a typo and meant to be G#

F7 - F A C E# - the E should be Eb, so it's F A C Eb, as the relationship of interval from the note F to Eb is a minor (dominant) 7th.

Minor 7
Bm7 - B D F# Ab - the Ab should be A natural, as it's a dominant 7 (or minor 7) we're using in this chordal structure.

Dm7 - D - D F A Cb - again, it's the relationship of the root with the 7th. C above a D as a root is a dominant 7.

Fm7 - F - F Ab C E - the interval for the 7th needs to be Eb. A good way of remembering the dominant 7th interval (sometimes referred to as the minor 7th) is to go up the octave from the root note and the descend one step/whole tone/two frets. With this in mind, going two frets below F we arrive at Eb, which is the dominant 7th of the Fm7 chord.

Em7 - E - E G B Db - see above.

Gm7 - G Bb D E - close, the 7th is actually F instead of E. Check your intervals..

Minor Triad
Fm - F# Ab C - I think this is merely a typo

 

[Binnie]

i think i got the minor 7th and the diminished chord mudddled together.
which then leads us to


Diminished Chord;

A - A C Eb
B - B D F
C - C Eb Gb
D - D F Ab
E - E G Bb
F - F Ab Cb
G- G Bb Db

Half Diminished 7th Chord:

A - A C Eb G
B - B D F A
C - C Eb Gb B
D - D F Ab C
E - E G Bb D
F - F Ab Cb Eb
G- G Bb Db E

Full Diminshed 7th Chord:

A - A C Eb Gb
B - B D F Ab
C - C Eb Gb Bb
D - D F Ab Cb
E - E G Bb Db
F - F Ab Cb D or Db(?)
G- G Bb Db Eb