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Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

#1,001
Unfortunately, I haven’t heard anything from LaBella since I asked who I was corresponding with.

I don’t like to be treated like a dummy. I can no longer support the company by buying their stuff.

Buyer beware on the CB40 set.
 
#1,002
skycruiser said:
Welcome to TB and to our little thread on Guitar Scale Acoustics! Sorry to hear about the volume imbalance on your bass but looks like you have plans to fix it. My PNB has pretty good volume across the string but my previous AVN did not (as documented somewhere in this thread).
Click to expand...
Thank you! Actually, I read your posts quite carefully, and your experience over the past year and a half helped direct me to the PNB as opposed to the AVN (with that braided transducer!).
I lifted the saddle out and noticed right away it was in the slot way too tight! The tightness probably interfered with the saddle-transducer connection. After sanding the saddle down level with 180 grit paper, I also sanded the sides to make it fit the slot better. Popped it back in and it fit nice and loose this time.

After plugging it in, the strings were much closer in volume. I think it's fixed to the level I need it.
 

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#1,004
Horrified said:
Wow, what an amazing thread this has been! I just joined to give a big thank you to the many contributors here. Because of you, I ended up ordering an Ibanez PNB14E without even trying one out. This is a first for me. Actually, your posts were so juicily detailed and gushy, I was able to visualize very clearly what to expect without ever putting my hands on a guitar-scale acoustic bass: your posts allowed me to play it vicariously!

I also appreciate the various experimentation of strings, as well as the detailed technical explanations of string compostion, including tension and intonation. A big shout out to SBassman, MakoMan, tymbrewolf, hushnel, skycruiser, and steve-rolfeca! You guys in particular have given me so much to work with. I don't often join forums, but after reading through this whole thread several times over, I feel almost like I know you guys. And I thought I should really register and show my gratitude. :thumbsup:

My PNB14E was delivered yesterday from Sweetwater. I'll post some pics and audio files in the days to come. My first impression matched your descriptions exactly. The wood finish is very nice. The build is CNC design perfection. Nice tuners and hardware; great balance in my hands; decent action and the form is pleasant. I agree with your assessment that this is an under-priced instrument.

However, I plugged it in to my mixer late last night, and with headphones on, the difference in volume between the E string the others is extreme (as many of you have already mentioned.) I'm going to follow your lead and sand down the saddle, and perhaps even layer in a piece of tinfoil - the method husnel used. But the tone was excellent! I used some eq tweaks right on the preamp to take the zing out. Tried boosting the signal of just the E string, but I think only a graphic equalizer could make a dent in that. I'll see what I can do with some saddle/tranducer adjustments.

I like the stock strings! At the moment, I'm not interested in trying other strings. After reading steve-rolfeca's experiences, I think steel-core strings (flatwound included) are a definite bad idea for this guitar - bridge and wood-top damage over time, plus poor intonation are things I would be concerned about. The nylon core is different - they do roll under the fingers a bit. Not bad, I think.

Thanks again!:bassist:
Click to expand...

Congrats on your new purchase. I've had my PNB14E for a year and a half and am still in love with it. I'm also still happy with the stock strings. In fact either I have gotten used to them over time or the strings have improved with age, because I am super comfortable playing the bass as is. I've also not had the E string volume issues that others have reported.
This has indeed been a great thread and I have learned a lot about these basses. Still waiting to read though about some magic new strings that someone puts on without any issues :-).
 
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#1,005
A few other items of consideration for people trying to work with the CB40's:

1. Strings By Mail now stocks them one string at a time, so if your E blew up, you could replace it for 4 dollars instead of the cost of another set.

2. Savarez makes very inexpensive contrabass strings that might be interesting on these basses. They will need to be cut to length, but, they are inexpensive, and they might be a win.

3. A forum member here has built many super short scale basses, and then used a tailpiece to make up the length of a 30" scale string. That technique might work with our basses. Maybe he could take us through the different tailpieces he has used.
Paging Mike Kohan. @kohanmike
 
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#1,006
At this point I've only added a tailpiece to one acoustic bass to accommodate La Bella/Gold Tone special 25" flatwounds, my Aquila ShortBassOne-60, which I only use for practice at home, it didn't come out as good as I hoped, muted sustain, though it sounds decent enough amplified. I have been successful stringing through my solid body basses with an anchor on the back to accommodate the extra string length.

I talked to La Bella recently who said they can custom make their flatwounds to any size I want. I've been using those 25" they make exclusively for Gold Tone, but it depends on how busy they are. I only play flatwound steel. I'm also going to try and cut down their nylon coated flats to the 23" scale I need, hoping they will not unwind, I'll see if melting the cut end of the nylon will prevent it.
 
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#1,007
Amen to that.

There’s a reason that quality flat-top acoustic guitars don’t have floating tailpieces- drastic loss of acoustic output.

The geometry of arch top guitars and violins is drastically different- the elevated bridge and sharper break angle puts much more pressure on the top.

The bracing is also drastically different, and most truly acoustic arch top instruments also have a post to directly couple the stress and vibration to the back.

Don’t put a tailpiece on your flat-top ABG if it came with a pin-style bridge. It might still sound sort-of-OK when plugged in, but you’ll ruin it’s acoustic properties.
 
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#1,008
steve_rolfeca said:
Amen to that.

There’s a reason that quality flat-top acoustic guitars don’t have floating tailpieces- drastic loss of acoustic output.

The geometry of arch top guitars and violins is drastically different- the elevated bridge and sharper break angle puts much more pressure on the top.

The bracing is also drastically different, and most truly acoustic arch top instruments also have a post to directly couple the stress and vibration to the back.

Don’t put a tailpiece on your flat-top ABG if it came with a pin-style bridge. It might still sound sort-of-OK when plugged in, but you’ll ruin it’s acoustic properties.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm going to try the cut down nylon coated on the flat top that has string through.
 
#1,009
I'm really digging Kala's metal strings on my Guild Jumbo Jr., not sure if they would fit the Ibanez basses as they are inch longer in scale (it would be close).

They are roundwounds (not a metal core) but they feel more "normal" to me and they are louder in acoustic volume than the stock strings.
 
#1,010
SBassman said:
A few other items of consideration for people trying to work with the CB40's:

1. Strings By Mail now stocks them one string at a time, so if your E blew up, you could replace it for 4 dollars instead of the cost of another set.
Click to expand...

It looks like the singles are a bit longer in scale. I may give them a try but it will be a minute before that bad LaBella taste goes away...if it ever does.
 
#1,011
Mosrite.jpg
I though some of the followers of this thread might like to check out this very cool vintage sub-short scale Mosrite Dobro bass that a local music shop has for sale. I stopped by yesterday and played it through an amp for about 20 minutes. Plays beautifully and has great tone. It's in amazing condition for a bass that is over 50 years old.
I did not measure the exact scale but it felt about the same as my PNB14E, somewhere in the 25" range. No idea what strings are on it but they felt like normal round wound bass strings and had good tension. I absolutely loved it.
 
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#1,013
Gypsy jazz acoustic guitars have floating bridges, yet are very loud. Bracing is key.
Now, it's small acoustic bass guitars we're talking about: unplugged volume is for couch noodling and small-room, two-instrument jamming at best. Adding a trapeze tailpiece will very probably affect acoustic volume, and possibly tone, for the worse, but for some it may be an acceptable tradeoff for a better fit of a given type of strings. Do your homework, pick your poison, measure thrice/drill once, your mileage may vary, and all that Beluga.
 
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#1,015
MakoMan said:
View attachment 3664703 I though some of the followers of this thread might like to check out this very cool vintage sub-short scale Mosrite Dobro bass that a local music shop has for sale. I stopped by yesterday and played it through an amp for about 20 minutes. Plays beautifully and has great tone. It's in amazing condition for a bass that is over 50 years old.
I did not measure the exact scale but it felt about the same as my PNB14E, somewhere in the 25" range. No idea what strings are on it but they felt like normal round wound bass strings and had good tension. I absolutely loved it.
Click to expand...


Very Cool Bass!

Is there a resonator cone? I love the way it looks.
 
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#1,016
MakoMan said:
View attachment 3664703 I though some of the followers of this thread might like to check out this very cool vintage sub-short scale Mosrite Dobro bass that a local music shop has for sale. I stopped by yesterday and played it through an amp for about 20 minutes. Plays beautifully and has great tone. It's in amazing condition for a bass that is over 50 years old. I did not measure the exact scale but it felt about the same as my PNB14E, somewhere in the 25" range. No idea what strings are on it but they felt like normal round wound bass strings and had good tension. I absolutely loved it.
Click to expand...
I want a resonator bass exactly like that, but upwards of $2000 is above my pay rate. If it was under $1000, I might go for it. But wait, I just did some calculating from a post on the Mosrite forum, it's 24.5" scale and about 38" long, 14.75" wide, a bit too big for me, I prefer no bigger than 34" x 12".
 
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#1,018
KohanMike said:
I want a resonator bass exactly like that, but upwards of $2000 is above my pay rate. If it was under $1000, I might go for it. But wait, I just did some calculating from a post on the Mosrite forum, it's 24.5" scale and about 38" long, 14.75" wide, a bit too big for me, I prefer no bigger than 34" x 12".
Click to expand...
You could convert a resonator tenor guitar by Gold Tone or Ozark, but neither is particularly small body-wise, and nut width is very narrow at ~32mm (I guess it could work converted to a 3-string, EAD-tuned bass):
Invalid Link Removed
MBT+: Metal Body Tenor Guitar (Discontinued) | Gold Tone Folk Instruments
These resophonic octave mandolins would be sweet, but not cheap, as modding platforms go:
Gallery: Mandonator™ 8 - Resonator Octave Mandolin-Mandola - Topher Gayle, Luthier
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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#1,020
KohanMike said:
I want a resonator bass exactly like that, but upwards of $2000 is above my pay rate. If it was under $1000, I might go for it. But wait, I just did some calculating from a post on the Mosrite forum, it's 24.5" scale and about 38" long, 14.75" wide, a bit too big for me, I prefer no bigger than 34" x 12".
Click to expand...

It was truly stunning and the price was actually more than fair for the Mosrite, but it was more than I could justify spending as well for what would be a specialty bass. However for someone who collects them it was a pretty reasonable price considering the condition. If I win the lottery I will definitely pick it up :-)
 
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