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1 2x10 and 1 4x10 makes sense ?

S

shakiroin

Dec 17, 2008
127
3
#1
Just wondering has anybody tried this ?

My situation specifilcally is.

A R600 CARVIN which has a x-over knob for the bi-amp function. This head has 2 speaker outputs on back 1 for high frequency speakers and 1 for low speakers freq..

I hear you can rewire a 410 8ohms to make it 4 ohms but I have no clue how to do this. So in the meanwhile I'll stick to the 410 8 ohms

Currently I have a 410 8ohms ... Now, I have 2 options for my rig
get a 115 8 ohms or a 210 8 ohms...

Which one will sound better ? I have enough room in my minivan to transport those cabs and "still" can pick them up" but sound quality is my concern..

I'll be pluging in a 5 strings active and a EUB

. Thanks
 
#6
shakiroin said:
Just wondering has anybody tried this ?
Click to expand...

Makes total sense if, depending on your amp design (i.e., if it can drive a 2.67 ohm load), the 210 is 8ohms and the 410 is 4ohms. That is a wonderful modular 610 that results in each driver getting equal power (from a mono block amp capable of operating at 2ohms) and 'relatively equal power' from a 'dual mono amp'.

The other cool thing about this combination is that the power output of a solid state amp will automatically adjust for the size of the rig... lowest power into the 8ohm 210, higher power into the stand-alone 410, and highest power into the stack.

Nice. If both cabs are the same impedance, not so much.
 
#7
i'm looking out for a rig like this too. ashdown abm ii 900, warwick 411pro and then looking for another 4ohm 600W (i.c. 2x10). so this has to be mesa powerhouse (price in europe is too high), carvin brx (i have doubts. there must be a catch), tecamp (too pricey).

i think as long as the ohms match and the watts match, you're gonna have a great sound.
 
#8
JimmyM said:
I like balanced cabs all at the same volume, and you can only do that with oddball impedances...
Click to expand...

Was wondering why this is..? If two cabs have the same impedance (say 8 ohms) ala his 210/410 example, how would they each receive power from a head rated say, at 400 watts (4 ohms total)?

Would the amp throw the power to the bigger cab and leave the little guy doing very next to nothing? I think I remember you saying something very complicated about the way each cabinet produces sound when paired with another cabinet that is not equal in size, but I didn't really understand it. :P
 
#9
SchecterC4 said:
Was wondering why this is..? If two cabs have the same impedance (say 8 ohms) ala his 210/410 example, how would they each receive power from a head rated say, at 400 watts (4 ohms total)?

Would the amp throw the power to the bigger cab and leave the little guy doing very next to nothing? I think I remember you saying something very complicated about the way each cabinet produces sound when paired with another cabinet that is not equal in size, but I didn't really understand it. :P
Click to expand...

There is nothing complicated about it. The amount of power delivered to a cab is based on that cab's impedance. If you have two cabs with the same impedance (i.e., 8ohms), then each cab will recieve the same amount of power (half) from a power amp. This, of course, would be a good thing with two identical cabs, or even two different cabs with the same SPL.

With a 410 and 210, where the 410 has twice as many drivers, assuming relatively similar design (like a 410 and 210 from the same company and within the same line), the 'optimal' configuration is for the 410 to get double the power of the 210. The way to do this is to have the 410 impedance half of the 210 impedance. This would be virtually identical to a 610 cab, where again, each of the six drivers gets the same amount of power delivered to it.

Of course, this assumes a monoblock solid state head that can safely operate at 2.67 ohms. Or, a dual mono design. If you have a dual mono design with a balance control like the Eden WT800 or Puma1000, then you can balance the output of the amp to result in each cab being 'appropriately balanced' regardless of SPL or impedance.

Per JimmyM's point, this eliminates many heads, since many only operate safely at a minimum of 4ohms.
 
#10
KJung said:
With a 410 and 210, where the 410 has twice as many drivers, assuming relatively similar design (like a 410 and 210 from the same company and within the same line), the 'optimal' configuration is for the 410 to get double the power of the 210. The way to do this is to have the 410 impedance half of the 210 impedance. This would be virtually identical to a 610 cab, where again, each of the six drivers gets the same amount of power delivered to it.
Click to expand...

Got it! Thanks for clearing that up. Running stereo seems easier to me. Lots more options effects wise (assuming its in your budget) with blending clean/dirt and the like.
 
#11
SchecterC4 said:
Got it! Thanks for clearing that up. Running stereo seems easier to me. Lots more options effects wise (assuming its in your budget) with blending clean/dirt and the like.
Click to expand...

FYI, stereo is quite different from dual mono. A head like the Puma1000, the Shuttle Max 12, the Eden WT800, the SWR900, etc. have two power amps, but mono preamps. So, while you can drive two cabs with separate amps, they would not be in stereo for effects, etc.

The only true stereo bass amp currently in production that I'm aware of is the TecAmp Bonafide, which has dual power amps AND a stereo two channel preamp. So, that is literally like having two completely separate amps in the same box, and would allow for stereo chorusing through two cabs, etc.
 
#12
KJung said:
FYI, stereo is quite different from dual mono. A head like the Puma1000, the Shuttle Max 12, the Eden WT800, the SWR900, etc. have two power amps, but mono preamps. So, while you can drive two cabs with separate amps, they would not be in stereo for effects, etc.

The only true stereo bass amp currently in production that I'm aware of is the TecAmp Bonafide, which has dual power amps AND a stereo two channel preamp. So, that is literally like having two completely separate amps in the same box, and would allow for stereo chorusing through two cabs, etc.
Click to expand...

Can I use a Carvin R600 using the high output for the 210 and the low for the 410 ?. They are both 8 ohms, the 210 and 410 , and then How do I know if I'm sending proportional power to each one by ear I guess ?.
And in your opinion, this setup sounds better than
2 410x or
1 410 + 1 115 or
1 210 + 1 115 ?
 
#13
If they were both 8 ohm cabinets though, wouldn't the 210 get twice as much power per driver when running the power parallel through the two cabinets?

If you had a 210 and a 410 of the same series cabinet, both 8 ohm cabinets, would each be producing a "congruent" sound?'

I am interested to know this myself too please :)
 
#14
Scott01 said:
If they were both 8 ohm cabinets though, wouldn't the 210 get twice as much power per driver when running the power parallel through the two cabinets?

If you had a 210 and a 410 of the same series cabinet, both 8 ohm cabinets, would each be producing a "congruent" sound?'

I am interested to know this myself too please :)
Click to expand...

if they are both 8 ohm each driver in the 210 will get twice the watts as each driver in the 410. each cab wil get the same amount of watts in total. twice the watts = 3dB increase in volume which isn't much. As long as you aren't overpowering the 210 the 8+8 setup works ok. I did it for years. This of course is assuming a mono amp.
 
#16
Ya know, I am yet to read from ANY manufacturer where it says for optimum power etc.. to run cabs with two different impedances if using a 210/410.
And IMO/IME the difference (say when running two 8 ohm cabs) is so small, you wouldn't be able to tell anyway.

I ran a SWR 410 powered by a SWR Redhead (210 combo) for years.
Do it. It's fine.

If anything, I would almost think the opposite would be true.....there is no way a 210 could compete with a 410 in terms of volume.
Just can't.
An Eden 210XLT is nice- for example. But would get crushed by the 410XLT.
So, you would think that you WOULD want a 210 to grab more power, if it made a difference, to keep up with it's 410.
 
#19
I have run my Eden 210xlt (8ohm) + 410xlt (4ohm) using Carvin B1500, that's my biggest rig now. Have not needed to use that rig setup for any gigs lately but its' there if I need it.

Most recently been giggin GB Neopak w/Neox112T (8ohm)+ Neox212T (4ohm) and that works great as my medium sized rig. Easy to transport, puts the sound up by my ears and all 3 pieces quite light weight.

Now just for a change this past weekend, I re-tried my MB F1 w/410xlt and used my recently acquired MTD KZ5 modded with Aggie pre/US Bart pups. It was great, what a great sound. Big, single cab, light weight amp, heard myself very well. I'm thinking the modded KZ5 made the rig sound better than before with my passive Jobo 5er.

Gonna use the med size rig this weekend. Tall, narrow stack small stage works very well. So in closing, 8 ohm + 4 ohm cabs work for me.
 
#20
shakiroin said:
Just wondering has anybody tried this ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have, it's no big deal... If both cabs have same ohm-age the speakers in the 2x10 will be driven harder than the ones in the 4x10, thus making their lifespan shorter (theoretically, at least).
If you've got a 2x10@8ohm, a 4x10@4ohm and an amp that works under 2ohm load you're well balanced.

To illustrate:

Both cabs are 8ohm and each cone handles 200W
Amp - 1000W@4ohm
2x10@8ohm = 250W per cone
4x10@8ohm = 125W per cone

As a larger box, the 4x10 will give you good lows and chances of damaging speakers will be reduced. Having the speakers in the 2x10 working slightly above their handling specs won't cause damage if you're careful. Not a bad system IMO and quite practical...
 

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