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1200W Forte HP

Brad, do you mean the channel volume or the master?
I tried mine with the channel volume at 9:00 and noon and then at about 3:00 (as per the owner's manual)
I like a cleaner signal so the noon position sounded best (to me)
I can't imagine having the master much past noon as the amp makes a lot of power

Understood about volume pot taper, but when the channel volume is at about noon and the amp is blazing, stage volume loud. I think the pots are pretty much out of the equation. My GB 2x12 can't take nearly the full power of the 9.2 but it will get crazy, dangerous, loud should you want to go down that road

Just to be clear; I liked the 9.2 and gigged with it for over a year.
I'd use one again in a heartbeat with a provided back line; it just wasn't my favorite.

Obviously there is no better, just different.

The Gain and Volume on the left side. The 9.0 is single channel. IIRC I kept mine around 1 o'clock. Just that much over 12 o'clock made a big difference with my basses and how I play. I controlled my stage volume with the Master so it never got too loud... just loud as I desired.

The issue in my case was hitting the sweet spot gain-wise that would push the amp just enough for my purposes... which is normally what I do on all of my amplification anyway. For some reason I decided 12 o'clock was enough until I remembered telling people don't set your new amp like your old amp. Duh.
:D
 
The slam factor that I’m referring to is pretty easy to sum up. It’s just having so much headroom behind you that each note has that extra heft behind it, making it not only sound louder but feel louder.

Assuming this "slam/heft" that we hear is real, my take on it is not just pure power.
My MBF800 is obviously 800 watts at 4 Ohms
My ABM 500 is 600 watts (which is really close SPL wise) but has more weight to each note; it just sounds thinker no matter how the EQ.
While I haven't compared directly, I think that my 300 Watt (on a good day) SVT has more heft, thickness, authority, weight, slam, or whatever you want to call it than the MBF too.

I felt the same way about a borrowed Genzler, and as mentioned before I have not tried the Quilter or Mesa offerings.

I come from a family of engineers and am certain that my father is in heaven waiting to tell me "just do the math and we will both know the answer"; meanig the laws of physics and the associated math don't lie, and these little amps spec out just like the big ones and what you hear is psycosomatic.
Well that may be so, but my opinion is my truth which is not necessarily The Truth.

I think I became a musician as I knew that was the one thing I could always do better than him.
 
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I remember I bought a PLX 2402 and used it with a pair of Eden D410XLT cabs, and another time with a D215XLT/D210XLT. I used it for about 2 gigs and remember feeling that the amp just didn't feel right. I heard the notes but there was something def missing. I brought it back and got an Eden power amp after that, and it had slam or weight (if you will) to the notes.
 
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I remember I bought a PLX 2402 and used it with a pair of Eden D410XLT cabs, and another time with a D215XLT/D210XLT. I used it for about 2 gigs and remember feeling that the amp just didn't feel right. I heard the notes but there was something def missing. I brought it back and got an Eden power amp after that, and it had slam or weight (if you will) to the notes.
OOC, how did you set the 2402? Also, which preamp were you using?
 
My take on ‘heft’ or weight of a note.
Balloon filled with water compared to a like balloon filled with house paint or pancake batter.
It’s a feel thing not a loudness thing.
IMO headroom helps get you there.

This. Headroom isn't reflected in the basic power rating so you can find two 500w amps with decidedly different performance.
 
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Once you have even 1 dB of true headroom, everything beyond that is of no consequence. In fact, this is EXACTLY how Lab Gruppen power amps work, the modulated rail simply insures that there is 1dB of headroom before hitting the rails all the way up to rated power. That's how headroom is really defined, but then again some folks use more creative definitions.
 
Maybe. If you don't have adequate power then more power will, up to the point that the speakers saturate.
 
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I'm going to approach this from a different perspective...current. One of the critical design criteria of any amp, not just Class D, is not only how much power it can deliver, but most importantly, how much continuous current can it deliver at a particular voltage. Given that we're driving low impedance devices (i.e. speakers), current driving capabilities become very important, in fact more important IMO than how much voltage it can swing. Any amp can swing voltage, but it's the current it can deliver at these voltages which will ultimately determine the performance of that particular amp. I believe many of the things we're describing here with regards to "slam" has more to do with the current driving capabilities of the amp than the so-called power ratings itself. In fact, when an amp's clip light typically illuminates, it tells you it's max voltage swing has been reached (Voltage clip), but very seldom, if at all, does it tell you that it ran out of current while driving the speaker load based on the voltage its putting out across the speaker terminals, even if that voltage is still within its power rails. This current capability primarily is determined by how well the power supply is designed.

The PLX2402 was mentioned in this thread in a non flattering way, and I agree 100%. It was QSC's first attempt, I believe, at a SMPS to lower amp weight and it was the big "fail" IMO, regardless of what one QSC employee/TB member here tried to explain away as gain matching. I had one new in a box in my shop for the longest time and couldn't understand why so many players where bridging this amp to get even close to the capabilities of our then HT322 cab. I finally took it out of the box, plugged it in, and was horrified! Even next to their 300watt @ 4ohm class A/B amp it was "no contest". The more I turned the PLX2402 up, the harsher and worse it sounded. Sure it was louder, but it lost all the warmth and yes, "slam", you would expect from such a "powerful" amp. In fact, trying to eq more bass in only made it worse because it caused it to drain its current capabilities even quicker. Back in the box it went, and I honestly don't even remember what I did with it. Maybe I left it behind when I moved! ;-} And to be clear, I was always a big fan of QSC's earlier designs. For years I used their 1400/1700 series and later their MX series with great results.
 
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I'm going to approach this from a different perspective...current. One of the critical design criteria of any amp, not just Class D, is not only how much power it can deliver, but most importantly, how much continuous current can it deliver at a particular voltage. Given that we're driving low impedance devices (i.e. speakers), current driving capabilities become very important, in fact more important IMO than how much voltage it can swing. Any amp can swing voltage, but it's the current it can deliver at these voltages which will ultimately determine the performance of that particular amp. I believe many of the things we're describing here with regards to "slam" has more to do with the current driving capabilities of the amp than the so-called power ratings itself. In fact, when an amp's clip light typically illuminates, it tells you it's max voltage swing has been reached (Voltage clip), but very seldom, if at all, does it tell you that it ran out of current while driving the speaker load based on the voltage its putting out across the speaker terminals, even if that voltage is still within its power rails. This current capability primarily is determined by how well the power supply is designed. But in class D amps, another consideration which has to be taken into account is how much continuous power can its output handle before burning up the output filters necessary to filter out the PWM artifacts inherent in the Class D technology. Typically for the better Class D designs its 1/8 continuous power, whereas in a good linear amp (Class A/B, H), it can deliver its full output power continuously, all day long.

The PLX2402 was mentioned in this thread in a non flattering way, and I agree 100% While it is probably not the PC thing for me to say (not that that has ever stopped me! ;-}), I have dubbed the entire PLX series as the POS series. It was QSC's first attempt, I believe, at a SMPS to lower amp weight and it was the big "fail" IMO, regardless of what one QSC employee/TB member here tried to explain away here as gain matching. I had one new in a box in my shop for the longest time and couldn't understand why so many players where bridging this amp to get even close to the capabilities of our then HT322 cab. I finally took it out of the box, plugged it in, and was horrified! Even next to their 300watt @ 4ohm amp it was "no contest". The more I turned the PLX2402 up, the harsher and worse it sounded. Sure it was louder, but it lost all the warmth and yes, "slam", you would expect from such a "powerful" amp. In fact, trying to eq more bass in only made it worse because it caused it to drain its current capabilities even quicker. Back in the box it went, and I honestly don't even remember what I did with it. Maybe I left it behind when I moved ;-}
Hmmm, interesting. Certainly current flow is a significant part of power output.

My dim memory of output characteristics is that the power curve on an IV plot shows the power delivery efficiency. Which, of course, should be a rectangle; but, never is, falling on some sub optimal curve within the rectangle. And, performance depends upon where the dynamic load falls on that profile, right? Something like that.

I ran the PLX 1602 for the better part of a decade with absolutely no issues. But, it was driving a pair of Tech Basslines 212’s, which used amazingly efficient drivers. IIRC, they reached full frequency response with 1/4 W, or something insane like that. Really great cabs. Still have them, though they are languishing in a storage unit (long sad tale).

That was back in the 90’s before I was aware of anything Bergantino. Tech became TecAmp. I eventually got an NV610, and my PLX went away in favor of a TE Hexavalve etc etc.

These days, my power amp is a Crest ProLite 3.0, and my big rig is a pair of AE212’s. I can’t hear any deficiencies with that combination. The B|Amp did drive the pair of AE’s just fine, thank you very much.
 
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Another point on this “heft” question, from my $0.019.

First, just a little background; patience before TL;DR, please.

I did gig the B|Amp quite happily for a couple of years. Amazing piece of kit. But, ultimately decided I’m a slave to the Demeter preamps. My wife quite correctly accuses me of going overboard when I find something I like. So, my current Demeter gear includes a VTBP-201 (the old 1 1/2 rack space version) fed into the Crest; another same unit, but with the Demeter retrofit 250ASX module in it; and finally one of the little Bass400 units, which doubles as my ampless DI feed. They all have vintage 5751’s in the V1 position.

Anyhow, what’s relevant to this discussion is that the Bass 400 only has a single 12AX7 Tube on the front end of the preamp, but uses a solid state transistor to drive the power module; vs the VTBP-201’s that use a 12AT7 to drive the power module. I can take both outputs, drive the same power amp; and you can hear a difference. Does the audience notice it? No. But, the difference is there. Only point (finally) being that “heft” is not just the power amp alone. There is much in how the particular preamp interfaces with the power stage that also contributes. FWIW, YMMV.
 
Only point (finally) being that “heft” is not just the power amp alone. There is much in how the particular preamp interfaces with the power stage that also contributes. FWIW, YMMV.

I would agree with this assessment. Currently running the bedroom test on Mesa WA, Mesa WD-800, Demeter VTBP-800D, Genzler MG 800 and Arkham Beast of Both Worlds. Pretty sure the Mesa WD and Genzler are the only ones using same amp platform but they all sound different and use different design approaches. I really don't think any of these amps are lacking slam. The WA may lose a little steam at super high volume demands or with inefficient cabs but it does sound glorious. The other amps sound great too and all offer something a little different in sound or features. I am going to check out the Forte HP when I can too.
 
The FORTE sounds very interesting

I experienced the SAME thing years ago with a PLX2402 ,, NO ONE believed me. I was comparing it to my Crown PSA2 which had all the slam in the world.. I do realize those amps are of two different topologies. Many say that should not matter. OK, Maybe not...
But my crown seems BIGGER and Fuller / more slam, than the higher power PLX2402..
Manty people said that I didn't GAIN MATCH them ..

Maybe Im still wrong.. But I know what a PSA2 sounds like.. And it is awesome. Hard to beat but it beats me at about 70 pounds-ish


I'm going to approach this from a different perspective...current. One of the critical design criteria of any amp, not just Class D, is not only how much power it can deliver, but most importantly, how much continuous current can it deliver at a particular voltage. Given that we're driving low impedance devices (i.e. speakers), current driving capabilities become very important, in fact more important IMO than how much voltage it can swing. Any amp can swing voltage, but it's the current it can deliver at these voltages which will ultimately determine the performance of that particular amp. I believe many of the things we're describing here with regards to "slam" has more to do with the current driving capabilities of the amp than the so-called power ratings itself. In fact, when an amp's clip light typically illuminates, it tells you it's max voltage swing has been reached (Voltage clip), but very seldom, if at all, does it tell you that it ran out of current while driving the speaker load based on the voltage its putting out across the speaker terminals, even if that voltage is still within its power rails. This current capability primarily is determined by how well the power supply is designed.

The PLX2402 was mentioned in this thread in a non flattering way, and I agree 100%. It was QSC's first attempt, I believe, at a SMPS to lower amp weight and it was the big "fail" IMO, regardless of what one QSC employee/TB member here tried to explain away as gain matching. I had one new in a box in my shop for the longest time and couldn't understand why so many players where bridging this amp to get even close to the capabilities of our then HT322 cab. I finally took it out of the box, plugged it in, and was horrified! Even next to their 300watt @ 4ohm class A/B amp it was "no contest". The more I turned the PLX2402 up, the harsher and worse it sounded. Sure it was louder, but it lost all the warmth and yes, "slam", you would expect from such a "powerful" amp. In fact, trying to eq more bass in only made it worse because it caused it to drain its current capabilities even quicker. Back in the box it went, and I honestly don't even remember what I did with it. Maybe I left it behind when I moved! ;-} And to be clear, I was always a big fan of QSC's earlier designs. For years I used their 1400/1700 series and later their MX series with great results.
 
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I may be off base, but I think what I'm hearing is that some of the class D earlier attempts didn't quite deliver in the way we were used to because of the less than optimum implementation of the technology to produce what we were used to (voltage and current wise) - not because it was a different topology. For me an amp has heft and feels powerful when I can increase the volume and I still have a very full rich tone, even with an increase in bass EQ. That may be quite subjective, but it's obvious to me. I find that either a well designed class AB and old school power supply or a well designed class D and SMPS can give me that feel - and a less than optimal design of either can fall short.
 
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The FORTE sounds very interesting

I experienced the SAME thing years ago with a PLX2402 ,, NO ONE believed me. I was comparing it to my Crown PSA2 which had all the slam in the world.. I do realize those amps are of two different topologies. Many say that should not matter. OK, Maybe not...
But my crown seems BIGGER and Fuller / more slam, than the higher power PLX2402..
Manty people said that I didn't GAIN MATCH them ..
Maybe Im still wrong.. But I know what a PSA2 sounds like.. And it is awesome. Hard to beat but it beats me at about 70 pounds-ish

PSA2- Now only $200 if you live in Chicago or $300 if you want it shipped!
Crown PSA 2 Self Analyzing Power Amplifier | Metro Chicago

And a svelt 57 lbs. and with a pre that' still 20 lbs lighter than an SVT.
Too heavy for me too
file:///C:/Users/Jim%20Crenca/Downloads/PSA-2-Data-Sheet-k1071-8_original%20(2).pdf
 
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