1200W Forte HP

[svtb15]

I had two PSA 2 amps at different times.. Once was in the early 90s IIRC.. Sold it. .Then when I moved to Texas.. Showco was selling off much of their gear. i got a ShowCo Modded one..
The PSA 2's 900 watts was like no other modern day 900 watts . Modern day 900 watts feels weak compared.
OK i put my flame retardant suit on now for all the replies that will fire away, so I'm just gonna ignore.
Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to Experience a PSA2 with their preamp of choice so you know what i mean . Even at LOW volumes, the PSA 2 sounds and feels HUGE.

It May have more feel and ballz than the db751 that everyone refers to when they talk about this lead sled stuff.

With a preamp and a rack ?? There is NO WAY i would use that on a local gig or a touring gig ever again.. One reason I later got a Crown Macro Tech 1200 since it was only 2 rack spaces. ... Another great amp! But No. .Im not doing that again..

What is encouraging is that Jim says the Forte will not make you miss your lead sled.. paraphrase... That is pretty cool

PSA2- Now only $200 if you live in Chicago or $300 if you want it shipped!
Crown PSA 2 Self Analyzing Power Amplifier | Metro Chicago

And a svelt 57 lbs. and with a pre that' still 20 lbs lighter than an SVT.
Too heavy for me too
file:///C:/Users/Jim%20Crenca/Downloads/PSA-2-Data-Sheet-k1071-8_original%20(2).pdf

 

[svtb15]

I may be interpreting this incorrectly. But my layman mind has me asking, or thinking, that Power ratings can be very much "Smoke and Mirrors" and well .. "HYPE" .. at times?

I believe many of the things we're describing here with regards to "slam" has more to do with the current driving capabilities of the amp than the so-called power ratings itself.
In fact, when an amp's clip light typically illuminates, it tells you it's max voltage swing has been reached (Voltage clip), but very seldom, if at all, does it tell you that it ran out of current while driving the speaker load based on the voltage its putting out across the speaker terminals, even if that voltage is still within its power rails. This current capability primarily is determined by how well the power supply is designed.

 

[Al Kraft]

I may be interpreting this incorrectly. But my layman mind has me asking, or thinking, that Power ratings can be very much "Smoke and Mirrors" and well .. "HYPE" .. at times?

I think many of designers who have participated in this discussion and in this forum would agree and are among those who rate honestly IAW industry standards and best engineering practices.

 

[Jim C]

I think many of designers who have participated in this discussion and in this forum would agree and are among those who rate honestly IAW industry standards and best engineering practices.

I think Kirk is saying the same.
The ratings may be fair and identical, but some amps "feel" different by comparison, in a band mix.

 

[gkbass13]

If this thing feels anything like a DB750, I’m way on board. Was already eyeing a Forte, and the DB750 is the only amp I’ve ever owned that I miss(if we’re counting preamps, Monique is another one that got away).

 

[svtb15]

LOLOLOLO.. Make me choke on my milk laughing so hard..
IAW? About 2 years ago people said there is NO actual "standard." I have a screen shot saved somewhere because it was pretty interesting to see.

You're projecting some weird stuff man . And seem a little touchy about me agreeing with mr Bergantino.
This is a forum. I have an opinion.. Am I supposed to Tow the Company Line and suck up to shill for free gear as some people do? Not me brotha.

I was agreeing with Jim Bergantino, a MASTER and a guy that i respect from reading his posts over the years. And he has a great track record with great gear and a great company with his name on it.. . Top of the line BEST of the BEST.
I didn't ask you for you .02 . Not sure what your issue is, but its weird?

So anyway Al. Peace to you man

I think many of designers who have participated in this discussion and in this forum would agree and are among those who rate honestly IAW industry standards and best engineering practices.

 

[svtb15]

Not only in a band mix but just playing it..

I think Kirk is saying the same.
The ratings may be fair and identical, but some amps "feel" different by comparison, in a band mix.

 

[Jim Bergantino]

I may be interpreting this incorrectly. But my layman mind has me asking, or thinking, that Power ratings can be very much "Smoke and Mirrors" and well .. "HYPE" .. at times?

Or just misleading and confusing. As you know, there are many amps out now with the IcePower 700 module, including our B|AMP and forte'. Some, like ourselves, rate it at 700 watts @4ohm. Others rate it at 800 watts and yet another, 900 watts. How could the same module have three different ratings? Ours is at 1% distortion, the 800 watt rating is at 10%, and the 900 watt @ 20% distortion. As you can see a very unregulated and marketing driven industry. All ratings above, btw are "accurate", but nevertheless misleading to the unsuspecting consumer. Others give peak vs. rms ratings, which typically are twice as much, and of course, sad to say, but some just flat out lie. In fact one reputable company mentioned in this thread had an internal saying called "Billable Watts"...wonder how they defined that!

To Saluki's point, which I agree with, the front ends/Preamps of these various designs also play a major role in the end result of the product. If they didn't, all of these products would sound and perform the same, which they don't.

Bottom line in all this... I would listen to your ears and not the spec sheets. After all, your ears won't lie to you! ;-}

 

[SCT1422]

Bottom line in all this... I would listen to your ears and not the spec sheets. After all, your ears won't lie to you! ;-}

This is exactly what it comes down to... Does the amp do what you need it to do...

 

[bucephylus]

This thread is about the Forte HP. The general discussion about amp topologies is all well and good; but, cats should have a wait and see attitude until they actually get this amp on the gig.

For my part, I expect it will definitely get the gig done.

Which, BTW, may mean different things to different players. Some will haul the amp in and out of clubs. Some may just fire up at home and salivate / reject based on what they hear at home. Both perfectly real viewpoints.

 

[SCT1422]

This thread is about the Forte HP. The general discussion about amp topologies is all well and good; but, cats should have a wait and see attitude until they actually get this amp on the gig.

For my part, I expect it will definitely get the gig done.

Which, BTW, may mean different things to different players. Some will haul the amp in and out of clubs. Some may just fire up at home and salivate / reject based on what they hear at home. Both perfectly real viewpoints.

Exactly !! You can read and discuss all the specs and opinions you want, and nothing wrong with that... Like me, you may learn a thing or two... But does the amp do what you need.. I'm looking forward to the HP Forte, it was great at the show and no doubt in my mind it will be great on the gig...

 

[Passinwind]

Bottom line in all this... I would listen to your ears and not the spec sheets. After all, your ears won't lie to you! ;-}

Ruh-roh!

 

[smcgov]

I've heard the 1200 watt ice unit kicks and sounds really good, it's not just a Vanilla Ice

 

[Al Kraft]

I think Kirk is saying the same.
The ratings may be fair and identical, but some amps "feel" different by comparison, in a band mix.

I was agreeing with him Jim and simply adding that I believed many of the knowledgeable folks in the industry probably did too.

I also agree that voicing choices for an amp can make huge changes in how they sit in a mix. I think many players assume that volume is the only, and always most significant variable in the equation. I'll also agree that within a brand or between brands there is often a big difference in how big or full a head sounds. For example, Aguilar AG vs TH, Mesa WA vs Carbine, GK MB vs Fusion versions - IME power ratings (even against a single, common standard) don't come close to telling the whole story on an amp for me.

 

[Al Kraft]

LOLOLOLO.. Make me choke on my milk laughing so hard..
IAW? About 2 years ago people said there is NO actual "standard." I have a screen shot saved somewhere because it was pretty interesting to see.

You're projecting some weird stuff man . And seem a little touchy about me agreeing with mr Bergantino.
This is a forum. I have an opinion.. Am I supposed to Tow the Company Line and suck up to shill for free gear as some people do? Not me brotha.

I was agreeing with Jim Bergantino, a MASTER and a guy that i respect from reading his posts over the years. And he has a great track record with great gear and a great company with his name on it.. . Top of the line BEST of the BEST.
I didn't ask you for you .02 . Not sure what your issue is, but its weird?

So anyway Al. Peace to you man

I was simply agreeing with your post and what Jim and others have said...I have no idea what message I inadvertently sent that made you think otherwise. Glad it gave you a laugh though, and sorry if you think I implied something other than agreement.

 

[svtb15]

Right On Brotha!
Were all just bass guys doing the same thing.. No hard feelings here.
I dont have feelings, I'm from Brooklyn. LOL

I was simply agreeing with your post and what Jim and others have said...I have no idea what message I inadvertently sent that made you think otherwise. Glad it gave you a laugh though, and sorry if you think I implied something other than agreement.

 

[Al Kraft]

Right On Brotha!
Were all just bass guys doing the same thing.. No hard feelings here.
I dont have feeling, I'm from Brooklyn. LOL

I get the Brooklyn thing - spent summers with my grandparents who lived in Queens and had a weekend home in Narrowsburg back when it was more scout camp and ski country than arts and crafts trendy.

 

[svtb15]

Thank you for a very helpful post .
Me, just a simple working bass player guy can easily relate .
For good or bad,... bass playing is my DAY GIG.
I want it easy If I move my own gear. Getting older sux!.
But even at shows where we have a crew, they want it easy too. Crews guys and girls are Not the crew guys of yesteryear. Infact teh female crew folks seem more gungho that the males...Maybe they all eat too much soy.. LOL

I am totally intrigued with your amp as a LEAD SLED competitor. .I played my version of a lead sled last night and I will take it out on a series of runs in the US this week . Last night , even at a moderate volume with a stout 410 cab and with a moderate drummer it got a few compliments from the local bass players that i invited out. And these guys would not blow smoke. They would rather chew me up when they can. But it was all very favourable.
And i am RELIEVED that you .. someone that knows this stuff ... had the same experience that i did with that PLX years ago.

Or just misleading and confusing. As you know, there are many amps out now with the IcePower 700 module, including our B|AMP and forte'. Some, like ourselves, rate it at 700 watts @4ohm. Others rate it at 800 watts and yet another, 900 watts. How could the same module have three different ratings? Ours is at 1% distortion, the 800 watt rating is at 10%, and the 900 watt @ 20% distortion. As you can see a very unregulated and marketing driven industry. All ratings above, btw are "accurate", but nevertheless misleading to the unsuspecting consumer. Others give peak vs. rms ratings, which typically are twice as much, and of course, sad to say, but some just flat out lie. In fact one reputable company mentioned in this thread had an internal saying called "Billable Watts"...wonder how they defined that!

To Saluki's point, which I agree with, the front ends/Preamps of these various designs also play a major role in the end result of the product. If they didn't, all of these products would sound and perform the same, which they don't.

Bottom line in all this... I would listen to your ears and not the spec sheets. After all, your ears won't lie to you! ;-}

 

[svtb15]

Best Pizza on earth!!! I miss it at times.. Well all the time actually . .I offered my friend some money to fedex me a pie.. I think its gonna happen! I moved out 25 years ago. I dont miss it , I don't miss the taxes, the crowds, the subways, teh over priced Taxis ( Now its Uber or Lyft) or anything. .Maybe some pit band gigs. But that's about it

I get the Brooklyn thing - spent summers with my grandparents who lived in Queens and had a weekend home in Narrowsburg back when it was more scout camp and ski country than arts and crafts trendy.

 

[Al Kraft]

Best Pizza on earth!!! I miss it at times.. Well all the time actually . .I offered my friend some money to fedex me a pie.. I think its gonna happen! I moved out 25 years ago. I dont miss it , I don't miss the taxes, the crowds, the subways, teh over priced Taxis ( Now its Uber or Lyft) or anything. .Maybe some pit band gigs. But that's about it

...and some seriously great delicatessens IIRC.